I'd have to disagree if it's a legal ticket (which it sounds like it is) then no one is being cheated as I can see it?nasaroc wrote:You are cheating the system and making other passengers pay for part of your fare.
This week's history talk
Bensonby - you have made a very big claim - that every rail passenger travelling to LB from this area is paying too much, that they could save money by buying a perfectly legal "bensonby ticket" and that Southern Rail are deliberately keeping this cheaper fare a secret (or at least not advertising it to the public).
Can i suggest a simple and straightforward way to settle this dispute.
Every three months I attend a higher rail liaison meeting which discusses strategic questions about local rail services. This is attended by senior officials of both Southern, Network Rail and TFL, by our MP Jim Dowd, our GLA members Len Duvall, by the Lewisham Deputy Mayor and by Lewisham's head of transport and highways and numerous other rail officials.
I want to put the issue you have raised on the agenda of the next liaison meeting at the end of October.
Could I ask you to write a brief letter outlining your case accompanied by your name and address and a photocopy of your current "bensonby ticket" - I am happy to copy your ticket for you, if you like, at my office. I will present your views to the meeting and ask for an official reply which I will post (minus your name and address) on this forum.
If, as you claim, Southern Rail have been cheating local passengers all these years, now is the time to make them answer the serious charges you have laid against them on this forum. And surely, our political representatives will also want to hear about your claim that we are being cheated by our local train operator.
So what say you Bensonby? When can you supply me with the letter?
Can i suggest a simple and straightforward way to settle this dispute.
Every three months I attend a higher rail liaison meeting which discusses strategic questions about local rail services. This is attended by senior officials of both Southern, Network Rail and TFL, by our MP Jim Dowd, our GLA members Len Duvall, by the Lewisham Deputy Mayor and by Lewisham's head of transport and highways and numerous other rail officials.
I want to put the issue you have raised on the agenda of the next liaison meeting at the end of October.
Could I ask you to write a brief letter outlining your case accompanied by your name and address and a photocopy of your current "bensonby ticket" - I am happy to copy your ticket for you, if you like, at my office. I will present your views to the meeting and ask for an official reply which I will post (minus your name and address) on this forum.
If, as you claim, Southern Rail have been cheating local passengers all these years, now is the time to make them answer the serious charges you have laid against them on this forum. And surely, our political representatives will also want to hear about your claim that we are being cheated by our local train operator.
So what say you Bensonby? When can you supply me with the letter?
Not sure that would work - because the ultimate arbiter of the construction of the conditions of carriage will be the courts (I think?! - if not then ignore the rest of this post). For it to get that far, Bensonby would have get shopped and then plead not guilty. I bet that a magistrate would convict him (because they know peanuts) but on appeal, where you get sensible judges, he would probably win - he is strictly interpreting the conditions of carriage as he is entitled to do so. If he was caught, the just result would be for Besonby not to be fined (on the conditions as they currently stand) and it would be up to Southern etc to rectify them.
If you did bring it up at the liaison meeting, the powers that be would shake their heads and say that that was not the intention but until they actually amend the conditions, as a matter of words, I'd put money on the fact that Bensonby would be judged as correct at the courts.
So Bensonby - give an inspector some lip, get prosecuted, pursue it to the final appeal stage and at the same time, I'll have me a £5 wager with nasaroc!
If you did bring it up at the liaison meeting, the powers that be would shake their heads and say that that was not the intention but until they actually amend the conditions, as a matter of words, I'd put money on the fact that Bensonby would be judged as correct at the courts.
So Bensonby - give an inspector some lip, get prosecuted, pursue it to the final appeal stage and at the same time, I'll have me a £5 wager with nasaroc!
Actually, the first port of call on the conditions of carriage is to an arbitrator who decides between the two parties. The final arbitration is to a court.
In either case you need to have a response from Southern Rail as to their interpretation of the case that Bensonby is making.
Frankly, it is all very well saying their response may be to oppose Bensoby's position. Of course they will oppose Bensonby's position.
But I and I'm sure a few others would like to hear Southern Rail's response and judge it for ourselves rather than be told what it is going to be by someone else. I'm sure our local politicians are likely to want to hear their response also.
So come on Bensonby - if you have such a strong case, put it in writing and let's hear Southern's response.
In either case you need to have a response from Southern Rail as to their interpretation of the case that Bensonby is making.
Frankly, it is all very well saying their response may be to oppose Bensoby's position. Of course they will oppose Bensonby's position.
But I and I'm sure a few others would like to hear Southern Rail's response and judge it for ourselves rather than be told what it is going to be by someone else. I'm sure our local politicians are likely to want to hear their response also.
So come on Bensonby - if you have such a strong case, put it in writing and let's hear Southern's response.
By the way, Bensonby - delighted to see you at Garam Masala on Friday.
I hope that me coming up behind you, tapping you on the shoulder and asking, "Could I see your ticket, sir?" didn't startle you too much. You seemed very jumpy. Not a gulity conscience, I hope.
And I trust that your attractive companion who had travelled down from Manchester had done so on a standard ticket and not a "bensonby special".
Whilst on the subject, can you answer a question on the 'bensonby ticket" which has been bothering me?
You told us in the pub the other night that the problem with this ticket was that it wouldn't let you through barriers at LB. Now, I'm a simple man. What would you say to people like me who might argue that it is hardly surprising it doesn't work - it's an illegal ticket!
Surely the way to clarify the situation is for you to put your case in a letter and I'll place it before the authorities. If you win the case, you'll be a local hero and consumer champion. I can envisage a Bensonby statue outside Sydenham station - or maybe in Peak Hill Gardens. Who knows?
I hope that me coming up behind you, tapping you on the shoulder and asking, "Could I see your ticket, sir?" didn't startle you too much. You seemed very jumpy. Not a gulity conscience, I hope.
And I trust that your attractive companion who had travelled down from Manchester had done so on a standard ticket and not a "bensonby special".
Whilst on the subject, can you answer a question on the 'bensonby ticket" which has been bothering me?
You told us in the pub the other night that the problem with this ticket was that it wouldn't let you through barriers at LB. Now, I'm a simple man. What would you say to people like me who might argue that it is hardly surprising it doesn't work - it's an illegal ticket!
Surely the way to clarify the situation is for you to put your case in a letter and I'll place it before the authorities. If you win the case, you'll be a local hero and consumer champion. I can envisage a Bensonby statue outside Sydenham station - or maybe in Peak Hill Gardens. Who knows?
Hello all, sorry for not replying earlier.
I'll write the letter of course nasaroc, after all, I like writing letters. If you PM me your email address at some point I'll email you over a scan? (complete with signature and copy of the ticket &c.). However, I did not, or did not intend to, imply that Southern is "cheating" its customers - rather, people making the journey that I do (the 0851 from Sydenham if anyone is interested) are needlessly paying to much. If questioned about this ticket then Southern, and its representatives, have a duty (moral duty at least) to inform you about the cheapest possible way of making that said journey.
That said, logically I do not see why a letter should be written unless Southern had a problem with the ticket...their guards see it every day after all. I should really only have to offer a defence if I was actually accused of something - However, I havn't done anything fraudulent or wrong and I am certain of that fact.
I did not say that the ticket does not work at LB - it does (and at LV too) I said it did not work at sydenham. Apologies if you misunderstood.
Re. courts: It would probably not take place at a magistrates court if there was an issue. Its more likely that it would come up as a civil matter between me and the railway company.
As for jumping in Gara Masala - not a guilty conscience at all, at least not over railway tickets...
I'll write the letter of course nasaroc, after all, I like writing letters. If you PM me your email address at some point I'll email you over a scan? (complete with signature and copy of the ticket &c.). However, I did not, or did not intend to, imply that Southern is "cheating" its customers - rather, people making the journey that I do (the 0851 from Sydenham if anyone is interested) are needlessly paying to much. If questioned about this ticket then Southern, and its representatives, have a duty (moral duty at least) to inform you about the cheapest possible way of making that said journey.
That said, logically I do not see why a letter should be written unless Southern had a problem with the ticket...their guards see it every day after all. I should really only have to offer a defence if I was actually accused of something - However, I havn't done anything fraudulent or wrong and I am certain of that fact.
I did not say that the ticket does not work at LB - it does (and at LV too) I said it did not work at sydenham. Apologies if you misunderstood.
Re. courts: It would probably not take place at a magistrates court if there was an issue. Its more likely that it would come up as a civil matter between me and the railway company.
As for jumping in Gara Masala - not a guilty conscience at all, at least not over railway tickets...
The letter is now written and awaiting nasaroc's email so it can be forwarded to him. Or, if you prefer nasaroc, I'll meet you and give it to you in person.
My only qualm about this is that it could lead these tickets being withdrawn from sale* or, worse, mean that the Crystal Palace loop services are withdrawn.
*Although it is my impression that all stations must sell tickets between any two stations on the network.
My only qualm about this is that it could lead these tickets being withdrawn from sale* or, worse, mean that the Crystal Palace loop services are withdrawn.
*Although it is my impression that all stations must sell tickets between any two stations on the network.
-
digime2007
- Posts: 258
- Joined: 10 Sep 2007 18:26
- Location: Sydenhham
nasaroc I suspect you are only interested in teasing bensonby and this is the reason you keep this nonsense up.
What annoys me is that your posts mislead people looking for information on ticket use. You can delude yourself but please don't put your own bensonby-baiting entertainment above the interests of the people reading this forum.
What's the letter/meeting/courts charade all about? Why don't you just speak to Southern customer services? They'll tell you he's entitled to use the ticket.
Also, his ticket doesn't work in the barriers because the barriers haven't been set up properly. I don't have the same ticket as bensonby but I use mine to get on/off at Sydenham or Forest Hill so the principle is the same.
When my ticket didn't work in the gates I contacted Southern and they replied:
"it seems that your ticket certainly is valid, but the ticket machines have not been configured correctly to accept it."
Even the ticket inspectors have got the message now so why can't you?
[/quote]
What annoys me is that your posts mislead people looking for information on ticket use. You can delude yourself but please don't put your own bensonby-baiting entertainment above the interests of the people reading this forum.
What's the letter/meeting/courts charade all about? Why don't you just speak to Southern customer services? They'll tell you he's entitled to use the ticket.
Also, his ticket doesn't work in the barriers because the barriers haven't been set up properly. I don't have the same ticket as bensonby but I use mine to get on/off at Sydenham or Forest Hill so the principle is the same.
When my ticket didn't work in the gates I contacted Southern and they replied:
"it seems that your ticket certainly is valid, but the ticket machines have not been configured correctly to accept it."
Even the ticket inspectors have got the message now so why can't you?
[/quote]