Just a quick note of thanks for the excellent Sydenham Society Talk on the history of the area.
From the pictures, I would have loved to have lived in Sydenham in the 19th Century. Assuming I hadn't died from childhood diseases, of course!
This week's history talk
Yes, I found the talk to be really interesting - thanks Steve - and I also found the bomb damage map you brought in to be fascinating.
To somehow go back in time to walk around Sydenham in its late-Victorian heyday would be fascinating, but not on a permanent basis - too many nasty diseases and not enough medicines for my liking!
I'm now a bit annoyed with myself for shooting off before getting a chance to meet Bensonby! Maybe another time...
To somehow go back in time to walk around Sydenham in its late-Victorian heyday would be fascinating, but not on a permanent basis - too many nasty diseases and not enough medicines for my liking!
I'm now a bit annoyed with myself for shooting off before getting a chance to meet Bensonby! Maybe another time...
And how wonderful it was to meet you Bensonby and to be able to discuss face to face your campaign to remove all railway and Underground gating systems! When I brought up this subject, your friend sitting opposite swiftly spat a mouthful of beer back into his glass in sheer astonishment. Clearly this campaign has some way to run before it achieves the true level of public support it deserves!
Oh how I shall miss this pleasant banter once the new gates are erected.
I look forward to meeting you again.
Excellent talk by Steve, as always.
Oh how I shall miss this pleasant banter once the new gates are erected.
I look forward to meeting you again.
Excellent talk by Steve, as always.
nasaroc wrote:, your friend sitting opposite swiftly spat a mouthful of beer back into his glass in sheer astonishment.
how strange, considering he was drinking coke
He pointed out, after you left, that season ticket prices are calculated using a pan-london formula and are regulated by the government. Therefore people buying my "different" railway ticket cannot force price-rises on "normal" tickets if Southern were to see a dip in revenue.
nasaroc wrote:In other words, it's all the travelling public in London who are subsidising your ticket, not just local passengers.
That makes it alright then!
no, because all season tickets in this formula are index-linked to inflation (1% above inflation I think) - so which product people buy doesn't affect the overall price (or price increase)
OK - so it's paid for in a mix of higher fares and taxes.
Come off it Bensonby - we are all paying more so you can use your "dodgy" ticket!
You have discovered an unintentional "defect" in the sytem which allows you travel to London Bridge for less than other people pay. Top marks for discovering such an unintended loophole - but please don't try to justify it by telling us this is without consequences for the rest of us.
Come off it Bensonby - we are all paying more so you can use your "dodgy" ticket!
You have discovered an unintentional "defect" in the sytem which allows you travel to London Bridge for less than other people pay. Top marks for discovering such an unintended loophole - but please don't try to justify it by telling us this is without consequences for the rest of us.
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digime2007
- Posts: 258
- Joined: 10 Sep 2007 18:26
- Location: Sydenhham
People really need to lay off bensonby and his 'cheap' ticket.
There's nothing wrong with it!
He pays less but can use fewer trains (no trains on a Sunday or early morning), can only take two trains an hour, and can't travel on to Charing Cross.
If you had those restrictions on your ticket you'd complain if it wasn't cheaper.
There's nothing wrong with it!
He pays less but can use fewer trains (no trains on a Sunday or early morning), can only take two trains an hour, and can't travel on to Charing Cross.
If you had those restrictions on your ticket you'd complain if it wasn't cheaper.
The best way to end this subject is to stop posting in defence of purchasing tickets which are intended to take you to one place but due to a glitch in the system can be used to travel at less than the normal price to another place.
Since you have chosen to continue the argument, let me reply to the point you make.
You claim that it is OK to "cheat the system" since the trains you can travel on with this "dodgy" ticket are restricted. This is surely not an excuse for paying less when the people sitting next to you on those same trains are paying "full price". If the rail company were to advertise these "restricted" tickets as being cheaper and sell them openly as such you would have a point. But these tickets aren't intended to take you to LB. This is cheating the system and then inventing lame excuses for being a cheat.
Since you have chosen to continue the argument, let me reply to the point you make.
You claim that it is OK to "cheat the system" since the trains you can travel on with this "dodgy" ticket are restricted. This is surely not an excuse for paying less when the people sitting next to you on those same trains are paying "full price". If the rail company were to advertise these "restricted" tickets as being cheaper and sell them openly as such you would have a point. But these tickets aren't intended to take you to LB. This is cheating the system and then inventing lame excuses for being a cheat.
Good lord, its not a "defect" in the system at all! Every time you buy a ticket you agree to the terms of the ticket - the NRCOC - the NRCOC exlicitly say you can cut your journey short by starting/ending your journey at intermediate stations. They have clearly quite intentionally written that into the rules.nasaroc wrote:The best way to end this subject is to stop posting in defence of purchasing tickets which are intended to take you to one place but due to a glitch in the system can be used to travel at less than the normal price to another place.
Since you have chosen to continue the argument, let me reply to the point you make.
You claim that it is OK to "cheat the system" since the trains you can travel on with this "dodgy" ticket are restricted. This is surely not an excuse for paying less when the people sitting next to you on those same trains are paying "full price". If the rail company were to advertise these "restricted" tickets as being cheaper and sell them openly as such you would have a point. But these tickets aren't intended to take you to LB. This is cheating the system and then inventing lame excuses for being a cheat.
you imply its unfair as you will be sitting next to peole paying "full price" (i.e. people paying 34% more than they have to) However, I regularly travel on the west coast mainline and always book in advance* however I am sitting next to people who are paying full-price tickets that are many more times as expensive. Indeed, whilst these are advertised more than my season tickets are TOCs are notoriously bad at always advertising/advising people on what the best deal is....just as they keep this season ticket option quiet...
*incedently I found a way to travel between London and Manchester for £4.50 a pop last year - that has since become impossible it seems.
You make it appear that you are merely a thrifty purchaser, taking advantage of a "cheaper" option on train travel - almost as if you were searching around on lastminute.com and getting a better deal than anyone else.
But you know that this isn't the case.
Southern Railways do not intentionally offer your ticket for sale to the destination you travel to. It simply isn't the case that Southern Rail are "bad at advertising what the best deal is". They simply have no intention of selling the ticket you have purchased to go to LB.
You have found a clitch in the system and are now attempting to moralise your way out of this by comparing it with "bargain hunting".
You are cheating the system and we are all paying for part of your rail travel.
But you know that this isn't the case.
Southern Railways do not intentionally offer your ticket for sale to the destination you travel to. It simply isn't the case that Southern Rail are "bad at advertising what the best deal is". They simply have no intention of selling the ticket you have purchased to go to LB.
You have found a clitch in the system and are now attempting to moralise your way out of this by comparing it with "bargain hunting".
You are cheating the system and we are all paying for part of your rail travel.
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digime2007
- Posts: 258
- Joined: 10 Sep 2007 18:26
- Location: Sydenhham
nasaroc, you really need to get over this.
A one day travel card is cheaper than a weekly travel card but can only be used on a single day.
A prebooked Advance ticket is cheaper than an open ticket but can only be used on a specific train.
A season ticket is cheaper than a travel card but can't be used on tubes.
A not 'via London' ticket is cheaper than a 'via London' ticket but cuts down your options for travel.
See the pattern? More restrictions, cheaper ticket. Fewer days, cheaper ticket.
There's no cheating the system. It's a standard, openly sold ticket priced by Southern. You pay less because you can use it for less. And since when have train companies advertised restrictions on fares?
Do you seriously think bensonby has found some loophole in the system that Southern are unaware of. That's the funniest part of it all!
A one day travel card is cheaper than a weekly travel card but can only be used on a single day.
A prebooked Advance ticket is cheaper than an open ticket but can only be used on a specific train.
A season ticket is cheaper than a travel card but can't be used on tubes.
A not 'via London' ticket is cheaper than a 'via London' ticket but cuts down your options for travel.
See the pattern? More restrictions, cheaper ticket. Fewer days, cheaper ticket.
There's no cheating the system. It's a standard, openly sold ticket priced by Southern. You pay less because you can use it for less. And since when have train companies advertised restrictions on fares?
Do you seriously think bensonby has found some loophole in the system that Southern are unaware of. That's the funniest part of it all!
Nonsense. What's not clear from my thumbnail I've just noticed is that that particular train ticket (Lon-Man) involves a change at sheffield. It's quite openly advertised (if you type that combination in) and I'm sure its not what Mr Lloyd George intended when he passed the Railways Act 1921 
Southern quite clearly intend that ticket for sale - otherwise they wouldn't sell it on their website would they? One is perfectly entitled to purchase a ticket between any two stations on the railway network, and, as far as I know all National Rail ticket offices have to provide that service.
I still fail to see how I am making others pay more for their tickets, as the annual price rise of season tickets is cpaped by the government at the RPI+1% Therefore if everyone tomorrow went ant bought my version of teh ticket then there is very little Southern could do about it. (except withdraw the Victoria link - although I believe they are bound into running that route until at least 2010)
If anything, rather than it being immoral to buy this ticket, morality is on the side of thrift here; prices have rised above inflation year on year - whilst the service has not got better correspondingly - proportionate to fare rises. Therefore this ticket, which represents a 25% discount, seems perfectly reasonable - especially in times when people are counting the pennies more.
Southern quite clearly intend that ticket for sale - otherwise they wouldn't sell it on their website would they? One is perfectly entitled to purchase a ticket between any two stations on the railway network, and, as far as I know all National Rail ticket offices have to provide that service.
I still fail to see how I am making others pay more for their tickets, as the annual price rise of season tickets is cpaped by the government at the RPI+1% Therefore if everyone tomorrow went ant bought my version of teh ticket then there is very little Southern could do about it. (except withdraw the Victoria link - although I believe they are bound into running that route until at least 2010)
If anything, rather than it being immoral to buy this ticket, morality is on the side of thrift here; prices have rised above inflation year on year - whilst the service has not got better correspondingly - proportionate to fare rises. Therefore this ticket, which represents a 25% discount, seems perfectly reasonable - especially in times when people are counting the pennies more.
You can paint it up any way you like guys. You aren't thrifty travellers looking for a bargain. You are buying a ticket intended to take you to one destination and using it to travel to another.
This was never the intention when that ticket was offered for sale.
You are cheating the system and making other passengers pay for part of your fare.
This was never the intention when that ticket was offered for sale.
You are cheating the system and making other passengers pay for part of your fare.
As you haev just repeated yourself without rebutting my points then, I'll basically repeat the original points:
Isn't finding the best deal a thrifty measure? In what way am I not thrifty?
And how are others paying for part of my fare? (beyond state subsidy of course) they will not pay in any increase, as the increases are limited by the state (RPI+1%)
Southern quite clearly intend that ticket for sale - otherwise they wouldn't sell it on their website would they? Getting on and off at intermediate stations is enshrined in the National Rail Conditions of Carriage (s.13 IIRC)nasaroc wrote:You can paint it up any way you like guys. You aren't thrifty travellers looking for a bargain. You are buying a ticket intended to take you to one destination and using it to travel to another.
This was never the intention when that ticket was offered for sale
Isn't finding the best deal a thrifty measure? In what way am I not thrifty?
How am I cheating the system? "The system" sets up a lot of Byzantine rules - I'm following them.You are cheating the system and making other passengers pay for part of your fare.
And how are others paying for part of my fare? (beyond state subsidy of course) they will not pay in any increase, as the increases are limited by the state (RPI+1%)
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digime2007
- Posts: 258
- Joined: 10 Sep 2007 18:26
- Location: Sydenhham
Oh dear. There's no getting through to some people.nasaroc wrote:You can paint it up any way you like guys. You aren't thrifty travellers looking for a bargain. You are buying a ticket intended to take you to one destination and using it to travel to another.
This was never the intention when that ticket was offered for sale.
You are cheating the system and making other passengers pay for part of your fare.