Where was this Dartmouth Road building?

[Falkor]

[Steve Grindlay]

Falkor, this building was in South Road, opposite Christ Church. It was a school for young ladies, operated by John Wood Todd and his wife. John Wood Todd was also minister of the Sydenham Baptist Chapel, and that was on Dartmouth Road.

I've uploaded a map and some pictures [here] which should make it clearer.

Until the Dartmouth Road chapel was built in 1857 the Baptists met in the hall in Wells Park Road, between Halifax Street and Mill Gardens. That is why, despite being in Forest Hill, it continued to be known as the Sydenham Baptist Chapel.

Tudor Hall school moved from Forest Hill in 1908, but still survives as a rather posh girls' school in Banbury, Oxon.

[Falkor]

Thanks Steve! I never been down South Road before...will check it out. Nice photos there... You obviously obviously know what you're doing when it comes to scanning and digital photography. I like that one of the church in Dartmouth Road; I was 90% certain where it was located, but the photo in the book is face on, whereas your one shows it in perspective with the rest of Dartmouth Road. Have you by any chance got any photos taken from further up at the junction with Cheseman Street and Willow Walk? If so, I would love to see them... I think there was a different pub on the corner, plus there were cottages all the way down Cheseman Street (only 1 survives at the top) and along Willow Way/Walk. Also, the old "Sydenham High Street" shops went further down Dartmouth road towards that same junction (now occupied by car dealers each side).
Thanks again for sharing all the photos and clarifying Tudor Hall. I got cousins who live in Banbury...

[Falkor]

I walked down South Road today in the pouring rain and saw the surviving wing of Tudor Hall next to the Hamilton Hall... I never realised there was a church opposite! Also, there is some old shops down Church Vale, including an old house on the corner.

Going back to Dartmouth Road, I wonder what was left of [this] photo? Right now, there's this long grey block of flats where I once had to deliver tins of free food to all the old ladies living there, as part of Harvest Festival. Opposite, I noticed some old houses down the rather thin Dartmouth Place.

Today, I spoke to somebody who lived down Charlecote Grove during the 1950s! He told me of Baxter's Field being an overgrown bomb site with hedges. He also mentioned there being a shop or place down Fransfield Grove which no longer exists. Most intrigueingly, he said the current police station was built on the site of a previous police station converted from one of the original Willow Walk cottages!

[Falkor]

Nice one, Steve! I see you've added some photos of Willow Way, including the Police station; going to take a proper look at them now...

[Steve Grindlay]

Nice one, Steve! I see you've added some photos of Willow Way, including the Police station; going to take a proper look at them now...

As you can see from the [police station] picture, the present building was beside the old one. The original building was not one of the Willow Way cottages, it was built as a police station in 1848. Had it survived it would have been one of the oldest purpose built police stations in London.

I intend to add a few more pictures, and give them proper captions

[Steve Grindlay]

I walked down South Road today in the pouring rain and saw the surviving wing of Tudor Hall next to the Hamilton Hall...

Falkor, I do admire your stoicism.

One of the shops in Church Vale is illustrated on the cover of Sydenham and Forest Hill in Old Photographs (the one with the brown cover). Another is occupied by Parris Cues, who apparently are amongst the leading cue-makers in the world, and have supplied such as Steve Davis and Jimmy White.

In the photograph of Dartmouth Road, the site of the Baptist Chapel is now occupied by Heron House (the Job Centre). Just beyond is the surviving building that used to be the Midland Bank. Hamilton's clock, which also survives, is visible above the shops on the right side of the road.

And I suspect the flats you delivered to were Kingswear/Salcombe houses which are behind the photographer, nearer the pools, to the left of the picture.

[Falkor]

As you can see from the [police station] picture, the present building was beside the old one.

I see... Fortunately, the only time I've ever been inside the present building was when my friend and I went there to get our bicycles coded. My friend lived in Peters Path and his mother child-minded me each weekday after school throughout the late 80s, so although I lived in Rosamond Street that time, I was also brought up in the Wells Park housing estate. We used to go on bike rides all round Sydenham, and I remember when we first came across the site of Upper Sydenham station, including, of course, the Tunnel mouth.

The original building was not one of the Willow Way cottages, it was built as a police station in 1848. Had it survived it would have been one of the oldest purpose built police stations in London.

Surprisingly, this isn't mentioned in any of my Sydenham history books, so I'm very grateful to you for sharing the photo and information.

I intend to add a few more pictures, and give them proper captions

Look forward to it... I see you've already added some captions..

Falkor, I do admire your stoicism.

Haha thanks! The rain is a bit like Dove Soap: it doesn't dry your skin like the sun can! I actually prefer a walk in the snow...

One of the shops in Church Vale is illustrated on the cover of Sydenham and Forest Hill in Old Photographs (the one with the brown cover). Another is occupied by Parris Cues, who apparently are amongst the leading cue-makers in the world, and have supplied such as Steve Davis and Jimmy White.

Interesting... This area is all new to me... In the past, I've always stuck to the main roads round this bit, although I used to have a childhood friend in the remote top half of Stanstead Road; you seen that erie looking Pub/Hotel/Inn? I think the history of this half--beside the railway line--isn't shown through any old postcards. It might not even have any history... BTW, I was looking at the wall on this side of the Subway, and it looks to have been heightened at some point with newer looking bricks--a clue to solving the level crossing mystery.

In the photograph of Dartmouth Road, the site of the Baptist Chapel is now occupied by Heron House (the Job Centre).

Yeah, that's where I thought it was, but just needed the confirmation. Thanks.

[Falkor]

I see Steve has added many more photos/illustrations of Willow Way! I am in the middle of packing to move house right now, so I need more time to analyse these in detail--bit of a panic--don't remember seeing any published in any books before... Good stuff, Steve! That's some collection you got there... My friend said there was a Dairy down here...

The building in Fransfield Grove was a laundrette that apparently exploded!

Below is the only photo I have showing Willow Way...

[kenny b]

marvellous pic. Packman was the short sighted grocer that still nags my conscience for the tricks I played on him, The dairy was at the far corner, on the right, Express dairy depot,now home to my brother in laws catering business

[Falkor]

Thanks for clarifying the exact location of the dairy... I only knew it was somewhere down this road from what a colleague told me, whom lived in Sydenham during the 50s, but he doesn't recall anywhere near as much as you do. You should also check out the other photos/illustrations of Willow Way posted by Steve Grindlay (historian of the Sydenham Society), including the one of the old police station if you haven't seen them already. Also, please check my "Old Rosamond Street" thread... this is my best contribution to the forum imo!

[Falkor]

[Falkor]