3 Hidden Churches in Sydenham
3 Hidden Churches in Sydenham
I believe I've found 3 old buildings that appear to be churches, but are not referenced in any of my history books on Sydenham. Firstly, there is one at the beginning of Sydenham Park, also seen from Willow Walk. Secondly, there is one around the bend of Mayow Road where it meets Earlsthorpe Road (faces the building in question). Finally, there is one fabulous looking orange/red bricked building tucked away between Trewsbury Road and Knighton Park Road, opposite Berrymans Lane, diagonally behind the old 18th century church on the opposite corner where the Ice Cream Parlour was... Are these buildings really churches? Can anyone please tell me the history of them; when were they built etc? Any help would be much appreciated!
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Greg Whitehead
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Falkor,
I will need to return home this evening and conduct some reading research to give you more information on one of them in particular. The one which is on Sydenham Park, I fear, is no longer a church but some form of Gym arrangement? I walk close by it most evenings on my way home so will investigate . The one which you refer to on Trewsbury road is still a working church as far as I know. I believe there is a part of this site which makes mention of it - albeit fleetingly.
http://www.sydenham.org.uk/churches_old_all_saints.html
Might I suggest joining the Sydeham Society and speaking with Steve Grindlay? He seems to be more than an authority on these matters.
Sorry I'm not much help presently but hopefully some reading tonight will help this and your other questions.
I will need to return home this evening and conduct some reading research to give you more information on one of them in particular. The one which is on Sydenham Park, I fear, is no longer a church but some form of Gym arrangement? I walk close by it most evenings on my way home so will investigate . The one which you refer to on Trewsbury road is still a working church as far as I know. I believe there is a part of this site which makes mention of it - albeit fleetingly.
http://www.sydenham.org.uk/churches_old_all_saints.html
Might I suggest joining the Sydeham Society and speaking with Steve Grindlay? He seems to be more than an authority on these matters.
Sorry I'm not much help presently but hopefully some reading tonight will help this and your other questions.
hello falkor
i think the church on sydenham park was the original german church,the new one was built over the other side of the railway line right by the footbridge,i cant remember the name of the church bon something[sorry!],gregs right it is now a gym.
there is a book about sydenham by doris pullen that has details im sure about the churches of the area,i bought my copy in the bookshop opposite the greyhound.
i think the church on sydenham park was the original german church,the new one was built over the other side of the railway line right by the footbridge,i cant remember the name of the church bon something[sorry!],gregs right it is now a gym.
there is a book about sydenham by doris pullen that has details im sure about the churches of the area,i bought my copy in the bookshop opposite the greyhound.
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Greg Whitehead
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Additional to my earlier post, I may have gotten my churches confused.
You did mean the one that is the gym which is a little way down on Sydenham Park? Not the one actually on Kirkdale?
Another blatant cut and paste
http://www.sydenham.org.uk/worship.html
You did mean the one that is the gym which is a little way down on Sydenham Park? Not the one actually on Kirkdale?
Another blatant cut and paste
http://www.sydenham.org.uk/worship.html
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Greg Whitehead
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This plagarism is becoming slightly embarrasing...
http://www.sydenhamsociety.com/All%20Saints%20bell.html
I promise I'll post some of my own work this evening but this piece is written by the chap I mentioned, Falkor
http://www.sydenhamsociety.com/All%20Saints%20bell.html
I promise I'll post some of my own work this evening but this piece is written by the chap I mentioned, Falkor
Thanks leaf and Greg!
Re: Sydenham Park church, it sounds like it's the Gym alright... It's also worth mentioning that further down Sydenham Park is a Church Hall behind the site of the original Holy Trinity church. The only reason I know about it is because I used to go there when I attended Holy Trinity Church Primary School in my early years, and it's quite a nice building inside with a stage and varnished wooden floor, but it's also hidden away from the road.
Anyway, thanks again guys!
This must be the one! I don't often walk down Trewsbury Road, so I never noticed the main entrance... I only glimpsed it from opposite Berrymans Lane, set back from the main high street under an open archway.All Saints' church bell
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All Saints church, Trewsbury Road, cannot now be seen to best advantage. The most visible part is the unattractive west end, which was never finished. The rest of the exterior (now obscured by more recent building), and the interior, are of exceptional quality, and the building is listed.
Re: Sydenham Park church, it sounds like it's the Gym alright... It's also worth mentioning that further down Sydenham Park is a Church Hall behind the site of the original Holy Trinity church. The only reason I know about it is because I used to go there when I attended Holy Trinity Church Primary School in my early years, and it's quite a nice building inside with a stage and varnished wooden floor, but it's also hidden away from the road.
Anyway, thanks again guys!
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nannyjacks
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Sydenham Churches
There used to be a big church Gothic-stlye church at the Forest Hill end of Jews Walk. I know it was there in 1945 because I was christened there ,but I think it was pulled down and replaced by a more modern building.
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Greg Whitehead
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Giles (Falkor).
On my way home this evening I took in All Saints. I'm afraid I don't have a great deal to report. It certainly looks in very good structural repair. Unfortunately I was unable to walk around it. One side entrance is fenced off and the other leads perilously close to the back of one of the large houses on Trewsbury Road. For that reason although one could physically walk around the back I didn't want to for fear that the homeowner might think I was up to no good (despite the briefcase and suit) - you just never know.
It does look a very, very fine and imposing church but whilst hardly offensive from the road it's best side is clearly hidden from view. Apart from a sneaky peek through the gated car park of Hexagon I couldn't get a good look.
I did wonder walking down KPR if the disused flats there (Park House I think they were called) would have traditionally been the route into the church and where you could admire the church from it's best side? It just seemed that the Sydenham Road end of KPR would have presumably had no housing as the flats and terraced houses are less grand than the large Victorian semi's that KPR has slightly further up the street? Just an assumption, albeit potentially a very wrong one.
I did jot down the number so I may just call and permission to go around the back. More to follow (and hopefully with a bit more substance).
On my way home this evening I took in All Saints. I'm afraid I don't have a great deal to report. It certainly looks in very good structural repair. Unfortunately I was unable to walk around it. One side entrance is fenced off and the other leads perilously close to the back of one of the large houses on Trewsbury Road. For that reason although one could physically walk around the back I didn't want to for fear that the homeowner might think I was up to no good (despite the briefcase and suit) - you just never know.
It does look a very, very fine and imposing church but whilst hardly offensive from the road it's best side is clearly hidden from view. Apart from a sneaky peek through the gated car park of Hexagon I couldn't get a good look.
I did wonder walking down KPR if the disused flats there (Park House I think they were called) would have traditionally been the route into the church and where you could admire the church from it's best side? It just seemed that the Sydenham Road end of KPR would have presumably had no housing as the flats and terraced houses are less grand than the large Victorian semi's that KPR has slightly further up the street? Just an assumption, albeit potentially a very wrong one.
I did jot down the number so I may just call and permission to go around the back. More to follow (and hopefully with a bit more substance).
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Steve Grindlay
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This is the first time I've been plagiarised, Greg, and it’s rather flattering!
You mention three churches, falkor. The first is the Park Chapel, Sydenham Park (now, I believe, a gym). This was built in 1850 by the Congregationalists. They had previously used a church on the site of the present Somerfields. Then, in 1867, they built another church (I have no idea why), the Congregational Church in the Grove (mentioned by nannyjacks). They kept the Park Chapel to use as a church hall. The Church in the Grove was demolished in 1972, and replaced by the Grove Centre Church.
The second church falkor mentioned is the Mayow Road Hall. It was built for the Plymouth Bretheren in 1889 by John Randall Vining (1848-1923), who lived in Forest Hill for most of his working life.
The third church is All Saints, Trewsbury Road. This is a Grade 11 listed building, listed mainly for its interior which, I understand, is spectacular. The church was designed by G H Fellowes Prynne and built 1903-1907. It was never finished, and this is obvious from the western (Trewsbury Road) end.
Incidentally, the church leaf mentions is another church entirely; that is the Dietrich Bonhoeffer Kirche, Dacres Road.
Two even more obscure church buildings are the Providence Strict Baptist Chapel, near Holy Trinity School, Dartmouth Road and the Emmanuel Hall at the side of Home Park
You mention three churches, falkor. The first is the Park Chapel, Sydenham Park (now, I believe, a gym). This was built in 1850 by the Congregationalists. They had previously used a church on the site of the present Somerfields. Then, in 1867, they built another church (I have no idea why), the Congregational Church in the Grove (mentioned by nannyjacks). They kept the Park Chapel to use as a church hall. The Church in the Grove was demolished in 1972, and replaced by the Grove Centre Church.
The second church falkor mentioned is the Mayow Road Hall. It was built for the Plymouth Bretheren in 1889 by John Randall Vining (1848-1923), who lived in Forest Hill for most of his working life.
The third church is All Saints, Trewsbury Road. This is a Grade 11 listed building, listed mainly for its interior which, I understand, is spectacular. The church was designed by G H Fellowes Prynne and built 1903-1907. It was never finished, and this is obvious from the western (Trewsbury Road) end.
Incidentally, the church leaf mentions is another church entirely; that is the Dietrich Bonhoeffer Kirche, Dacres Road.
Two even more obscure church buildings are the Providence Strict Baptist Chapel, near Holy Trinity School, Dartmouth Road and the Emmanuel Hall at the side of Home Park
That's a very comprehensive reply! Thanks Steve!! That answers all my questions and more... I saw the one at the side of Home Park next to an old house, including an old wall that goes around the perimeter of the park; however, looking at old maps, I cannot find them on Maddin road--only a terrace of identical houses. Those bricks sure look old... they must have been laid before 1894 (date of my Lower Sydenham map)?
hello steve
i bow to your superior knowledge!
i know that the dacres road rd church is the german church,but i read somewhere that the original church was elsewhereand that this one was built to replace one that had become too small for the community?
do you know where the original one was if not the syd park building?
i bow to your superior knowledge!
i know that the dacres road rd church is the german church,but i read somewhere that the original church was elsewhereand that this one was built to replace one that had become too small for the community?
do you know where the original one was if not the syd park building?
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Greg Whitehead
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In case the post isn't entirely clear by KPR I mean Knighton Park Road. @ Falkor; That All Saints Church really is quite fine. It's also a community centre so I shall be calling tomorrow to see how one can gain entry or walk around it, whatever it takes, buying cakes etc - I'll do it.Greg Whitehead wrote:Giles (Falkor).
On my way home this evening I took in All Saints. I'm afraid I don't have a great deal to report. It certainly looks in very good structural repair. Unfortunately I was unable to walk around it. One side entrance is fenced off and the other leads perilously close to the back of one of the large houses on Trewsbury Road. For that reason although one could physically walk around the back I didn't want to for fear that the homeowner might think I was up to no good (despite the briefcase and suit) - you just never know.
It does look a very, very fine and imposing church but whilst hardly offensive from the road it's best side is clearly hidden from view. Apart from a sneaky peek through the gated car park of Hexagon I couldn't get a good look.
I did wonder walking down KPR if the disused flats there (Park House I think they were called) would have traditionally been the route into the church and where you could admire the church from it's best side? It just seemed that the Sydenham Road end of KPR would have presumably had no housing as the flats and terraced houses are less grand than the large Victorian semi's that KPR has slightly further up the street? Just an assumption, albeit potentially a very wrong one.
I did jot down the number so I may just call and permission to go around the back. More to follow (and hopefully with a bit more substance).
Greg, you need to take more risks!For that reason although one could physically walk around the back I didn't want to for fear that the homeowner might think I was up to no good (despite the briefcase and suit) - you just never know.
Sunday afternoon, I walked right inside the Crystal Palace Camping site--a massive private area sealed off from the rest of the park--to see the retaining North Wing wall of the old Crystal Palace. You should have seen all the Gypsies in their caravans, tents etc. Everyone was asking me "Can I help you"? I just told them the real reason I was there. Or what about the mysterious back garden of the Sydenham Hill house with it's ancient steps and volleyball court? I just had to explore that place; I didn't care if I got arrested! 
You can't beat a nice walk down the private Hall Drive with expensive grey pursian cats running in front of the pathless road... 
Greg, let me know if you're up for that walkabout mate... you been down High Level Drive yet, complete with it's own local sweet shop and 2 railway tunnel mouths? There's a shortcut from Sydenham Hill, which is like going through a 2nd woods; I think they refer to this area as Hollow Combe...-
Steve Grindlay
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Never during my lifetime...can you go into the tunnels?
I heard one could go inside the Paxton railway tunnel past the site of the Crystal Palace High Level station with it's retaining alchoved wall, which would have come out at the top of High Level Drive, but I didn't know the Upper Sydenham Station tunnel was also exposed; what period are we talking anyway? They've all got double gates now.as a child living quite nearby i used to dare myself to go into the tunnel[it hadnt been blocked at that stage]at the end of vigilant close[at the bottom of high level drive]i usually chickened out much to my older brothers annoyance!
hello falkor
the tunnel im talking about is the one that can also be accessed by the steps which lead down from wells park rd,i am 32 so timescale would be around the very early eighties[?]
you used to be able to walk right up to it[unless im forgetting having to climb a fence?]i remember when the tunnel was bricked up.
we were always told not to go down there but being kids we did it anyway!
i take it this isnt the tunnel you were originally talking about?
this one is at the bottom of high level drive.
the tunnel im talking about is the one that can also be accessed by the steps which lead down from wells park rd,i am 32 so timescale would be around the very early eighties[?]
you used to be able to walk right up to it[unless im forgetting having to climb a fence?]i remember when the tunnel was bricked up.
we were always told not to go down there but being kids we did it anyway!
i take it this isnt the tunnel you were originally talking about?
this one is at the bottom of high level drive.
Yeah, this is the tunnel right next to where Upper Sydenham Station stood until the 50s; I am 25 and my first adventure there was in the late 80s, so it seems as though I just missed it! Bummer...the tunnel im talking about is the one that can also be accessed by the steps which lead down from wells park rd,i am 32 so timescale would be around the very early eighties[?]
I got this blue book with a nice photo looking right through this tunnel from Sydenham Hill Woods! For Upper Sydenham station and other simple early photos of the tunnel mouth, see this website:http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/stat ... dex1.shtml
falkor
25!!
i had you down as being much older!
what a font of knowledge you are and in someone so young
as for missing the tunnel prior to it being bricked up....you didnt miss much!
i remember it was damp and a bit smelly,rather scarey actually,my brothers tried to frighten me with stories about a man that lived down there,like an old tramp or something,maybe someone did live down there or that story might have been started to keep us children out!
those photos are great thanks
25!!
i had you down as being much older!
what a font of knowledge you are and in someone so young
as for missing the tunnel prior to it being bricked up....you didnt miss much!
i remember it was damp and a bit smelly,rather scarey actually,my brothers tried to frighten me with stories about a man that lived down there,like an old tramp or something,maybe someone did live down there or that story might have been started to keep us children out!
those photos are great thanks
Thanks, but I don't consider myself that young anymore; I'm at the general age when our muscles start to deteriorate... I'm still a rebel, but I wouldn't climb across people's back garden walls anymore to get from Rosamund Street to Panmure Road, via the square block of garages built on the site of a tennis court; no, being a responsible adult, I have no choice now but to take the long way around the side of Kelvin Grove School. How I miss being a child and all my adventures around Sydenham.what a font of knowledge you are and in someone so young
BTW, as I was telling Greg, there's a rather interesting house at the top of Panmure Road, built in the same style as a now demolished terrace of houses at the top of Springfield Rise/Rosamond Street--both with black metal railings.* It's possible they were built at the same time in the 1800s when one could walk directly between these areas and the tennis court because the newer houses in Panmure road hadn't been built. Also, at the top of Rowland Grove survives another oldish looking house, no doubt from the time when Rowland Grove was a proper road. Greg also told me about an old house seen from the end of Mount Gardens, which I have yet to explore, but this might have something to do with the private estate I glimpsed through gates at the top of Panmure road opposite the old house.
*I'm going to take some photos of the Panmure Road house and compare them to the above terrace. BTW, the ground is still on 2 different levels along this part, which is about the only feature from this area that can be compared to the time before the Wells Park Road clearances--on this side of the road atleast.