I would really appreciate feedback from the good people of STF.
Some time back, I really wanted to take a lease on the old pine shop (now Blue Mountain) with the intention of opening a pizza restaurant. Unfortunately, it was too expensive.
I am still looking at a number of sites, including Sydenham Road, and wondered if the general consensus of opinion was that Sydenham could sustain a decent (wood oven cooked) pizza place.
We are not looking at replicating Pizza Express/Hut, but more like a traditional Roman pizza (large - very thin) with authentic toppings (real Buffalo mozzarella etc.).
All/any input gratefully received - even the negative stuff.
Grazi
Input Please
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bigbadwolf
- Posts: 726
- Joined: 7 Jan 2008 21:21
- Location: Forest Hill and Sydenham
Without wishing to piss on your chips - or pizza, in this case - I fear that Sydenham lacks the clientele you're wishing to attract.
Don't get me wrong, I love a good oven pizza as much as the next man who actually knows what they are, as opposed to most of these nouveau-riche types who think they ought to be seen in these establishments but in reality have about as much class as those Russian oligarchs who pay their rent via a suitcase handcuffed to their wrist. But are able to keep coming back for more mozzarella, if you know what I mean.
Anyway...
I sincerely hope you make a success of any venture you undertake but I think you should reconsider as unfortunately the Pidgeon 'n' Chip shops seem to have the monopoly on fast food in Sydenham, sadly.
Don't get me wrong, I love a good oven pizza as much as the next man who actually knows what they are, as opposed to most of these nouveau-riche types who think they ought to be seen in these establishments but in reality have about as much class as those Russian oligarchs who pay their rent via a suitcase handcuffed to their wrist. But are able to keep coming back for more mozzarella, if you know what I mean.
Anyway...
I sincerely hope you make a success of any venture you undertake but I think you should reconsider as unfortunately the Pidgeon 'n' Chip shops seem to have the monopoly on fast food in Sydenham, sadly.
Sorry BBW, I'd have to disagree. I think Sydenham does, it's just that at the moment they tend to go to Crystal palace. All the better places to eat are busy. You don't need to be rich to eat in a pizza restaurant with a wood fired oven.
However personally I'd prefer a good Bistro (a la peter de wits in Greenwich_, or a Thai, Chinese or a greek restaurant. This is partially because of my loyalty to Tratorria. However I can see them both existing.
My next door neighbours who moved a while ago lived in social housing and they went out in Beckenham, they thought the high street was shabby.
Anywhere good, that makes people feel special enough to part with their cash to eat out will do well in Sydenham.
However personally I'd prefer a good Bistro (a la peter de wits in Greenwich_, or a Thai, Chinese or a greek restaurant. This is partially because of my loyalty to Tratorria. However I can see them both existing.
My next door neighbours who moved a while ago lived in social housing and they went out in Beckenham, they thought the high street was shabby.
Anywhere good, that makes people feel special enough to part with their cash to eat out will do well in Sydenham.
Hi
Just to clarify are you talking about a nice atmospheric restaurant or predominately a take away with a few table and chairs? I think the high street could definitely benefit from a nice pizza restaurant and would suggest that Sydenham does have the clientele to support such a venture. Lets be honest, everyone likes pizza, its not that posh! You can count the decent eateries along the high street on two fingers, we need more!
I'll will have to give Tratorria another try. I've only been there once and thought it was one of the worst meals I'd ever eaten out. However everyone seems to love the place so maybe I just went on a bad night.
If you decide to go for it its probably worth getting leenewham on board to help with the shop frontage!
Just to clarify are you talking about a nice atmospheric restaurant or predominately a take away with a few table and chairs? I think the high street could definitely benefit from a nice pizza restaurant and would suggest that Sydenham does have the clientele to support such a venture. Lets be honest, everyone likes pizza, its not that posh! You can count the decent eateries along the high street on two fingers, we need more!
I'll will have to give Tratorria another try. I've only been there once and thought it was one of the worst meals I'd ever eaten out. However everyone seems to love the place so maybe I just went on a bad night.
If you decide to go for it its probably worth getting leenewham on board to help with the shop frontage!
Thanks for the feedback so far - keep it coming.
The idea is to base the whole menu around the 'proper' Roman pizzas - very thin, and very big - not Pizza Express style (although I do like Pizza Express - I'm not knocking them).
It would be predominantly 'sit down' although you need to offer a takeaway service.
The difference would be in the sourcing the best ingredients, and using quality stuff. We would also follow the doctrine of the Roman pizzerias, in that you shouldnt really have more than 3 things on a pizza, but you order to share.
Beers, wine and soft drinks (obviously) but not a huge menu - sticking just to straightforward, quality food.
As said, pizza should not be an expensive night out, so we dont want to try to appeal to some exclusive crowd.
Our difference (hopefully) will be the way in which the company is run - but that's another story.
The idea is to base the whole menu around the 'proper' Roman pizzas - very thin, and very big - not Pizza Express style (although I do like Pizza Express - I'm not knocking them).
It would be predominantly 'sit down' although you need to offer a takeaway service.
The difference would be in the sourcing the best ingredients, and using quality stuff. We would also follow the doctrine of the Roman pizzerias, in that you shouldnt really have more than 3 things on a pizza, but you order to share.
Beers, wine and soft drinks (obviously) but not a huge menu - sticking just to straightforward, quality food.
As said, pizza should not be an expensive night out, so we dont want to try to appeal to some exclusive crowd.
Our difference (hopefully) will be the way in which the company is run - but that's another story.
My advice would be something like Ciullo's in Balham. We moved to Sydenham from Balham about 3 years ago. We still often visit when we fancy a nice meal as can't find anything like it near by. Its got a really nice intermit vibe going on. Nothing to fancy or expensive. Reckon you'd make a killing if you can replicate something like that here.
http://balham.london.myvillage.com/plac ... on/reviews
http://www.allinlondon.co.uk/restaurant ... t-8478.php
http://balham.london.myvillage.com/plac ... on/reviews
http://www.allinlondon.co.uk/restaurant ... t-8478.php
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spanishsydenhamgirl
- Posts: 10
- Joined: 4 Mar 2010 23:32
- Location: sydenham
Go for it Fishcox, please!! Somewhere family-family friendly, where you can bring kids during the day, light and airy.
Although agree with Lee, that a good Thai place, particularly, is much needed. The place in Beckenham, can't remember it's name, was absolutely packed the one and only time I went recently.
Although agree with Lee, that a good Thai place, particularly, is much needed. The place in Beckenham, can't remember it's name, was absolutely packed the one and only time I went recently.
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LaHibernis
- Posts: 12
- Joined: 22 Aug 2009 08:55
- Location: Thorpes
A new restaurant will always be welcome, but I'm afraid that I agree with some of the others here and don't think that another pizza restaurant is necessarily the right way to go.
When we moved here 6 years ago there was an interesting Turkish restaurant which seemed to be doing OK when another Turkish place started up where the new Spanish restaurant is. They both went to the wall. Now I don't know whether there were a whole host of other reasons why that happened, but I suspect that there simply wasn't the local custom to support both. We have only been to the Trattoria a couple of times, but it seemed to be doing more or less what you're planning to set up. If I were you, I would go for a bigger gap in the market, which isn't necessarily a bistro either, because many go to the Dolphin for that type of thing. Maybe somthing like Thai is the answer.
Please don't misunderstand me - I think that competition is an excellent thing and I know that people want to have a choice, I just think you might have a better chance of survival if you were distinctive not just in terms of quality, but also in terms of offering something completely different.
When we moved here 6 years ago there was an interesting Turkish restaurant which seemed to be doing OK when another Turkish place started up where the new Spanish restaurant is. They both went to the wall. Now I don't know whether there were a whole host of other reasons why that happened, but I suspect that there simply wasn't the local custom to support both. We have only been to the Trattoria a couple of times, but it seemed to be doing more or less what you're planning to set up. If I were you, I would go for a bigger gap in the market, which isn't necessarily a bistro either, because many go to the Dolphin for that type of thing. Maybe somthing like Thai is the answer.
Please don't misunderstand me - I think that competition is an excellent thing and I know that people want to have a choice, I just think you might have a better chance of survival if you were distinctive not just in terms of quality, but also in terms of offering something completely different.
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Raven Drone
- Posts: 31
- Joined: 10 Jul 2008 20:35
- Location: se26
Fishcox,
I would suggest you investigate the vacant HSBC bank premises - I'm guessing you would need to apply for a change of use licence - it has some outside space for the summer which will be improved greatly by the 'pocket park' under the proposed regeneration scheme, so while it doesn't look great right now I think it will become a great space for a restaurant.
I'm fond of the pizza down by the Dolphin but I do think it is mediocre and that maybe we are just grateful for small mercies because before we had nothing.
A bit of competition would be healthy. For an example of really good pizza and a small choice of really good wine and beer I'd suggest people check out Franco Manca (organic pizzas) in Brixton market - the queue speaks for itself. A win-win for the owners and the customers. http://www.francomanca.co.uk/
I would suggest you investigate the vacant HSBC bank premises - I'm guessing you would need to apply for a change of use licence - it has some outside space for the summer which will be improved greatly by the 'pocket park' under the proposed regeneration scheme, so while it doesn't look great right now I think it will become a great space for a restaurant.
I'm fond of the pizza down by the Dolphin but I do think it is mediocre and that maybe we are just grateful for small mercies because before we had nothing.
A bit of competition would be healthy. For an example of really good pizza and a small choice of really good wine and beer I'd suggest people check out Franco Manca (organic pizzas) in Brixton market - the queue speaks for itself. A win-win for the owners and the customers. http://www.francomanca.co.uk/
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Raven Drone
- Posts: 31
- Joined: 10 Jul 2008 20:35
- Location: se26
Sorry, meant also to add that I don't think we need lots of different choice so much as more good quality options. What's the point of having a Thai restaurant run by someone who obviously knows more about Italian food? The Mexican was not run by people who loved Mexican food - and it showed. I could go on....
If a place is good then there is room for duplication - take Blue Mountain and Sugahill for example. Both good and both busy. The other places struggled because they were poor or mediocre (I preferred to open a tub of hummous at home thanks very much!)
You sound like you know what you are talking about and if your food is good I'll spend my money and spread the word!
If a place is good then there is room for duplication - take Blue Mountain and Sugahill for example. Both good and both busy. The other places struggled because they were poor or mediocre (I preferred to open a tub of hummous at home thanks very much!)
You sound like you know what you are talking about and if your food is good I'll spend my money and spread the word!
Again, thanks for the continued input.
HSBC was an option (although the To Let signs have disappeared, and it would need a hell of a lot of internal work).
The reason that we are looking at pizzas - as opposed to other types of cuisine - is that I we know people who really 'know' pizza, and also because a lot of people like it - and its not too dear.
It does have to be a good sized premises though - I think the old blind shop/showroom would be perfect.
We are doing a 'reccy' of the area today, and Lee has brilliantly offered his creative input.
Will update later - but thanks to all again.
HSBC was an option (although the To Let signs have disappeared, and it would need a hell of a lot of internal work).
The reason that we are looking at pizzas - as opposed to other types of cuisine - is that I we know people who really 'know' pizza, and also because a lot of people like it - and its not too dear.
It does have to be a good sized premises though - I think the old blind shop/showroom would be perfect.
We are doing a 'reccy' of the area today, and Lee has brilliantly offered his creative input.
Will update later - but thanks to all again.
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sydenhamboy
- Posts: 264
- Joined: 8 Oct 2006 10:33
- Location: sydenham
If you do get somewhere, try and screw the landlord for as long a "rent free period" as possible.
And try to schedule any opening for when the roadworks have finished. Clients would probably prefer not to wear ear defenders while they eat dust-covered pizzas.
And I really would recommend old-fashioned leafleting outside the train station at peak hours to drum up trade. Preferably one that has a time-limited offer on it.
And try to schedule any opening for when the roadworks have finished. Clients would probably prefer not to wear ear defenders while they eat dust-covered pizzas.
And I really would recommend old-fashioned leafleting outside the train station at peak hours to drum up trade. Preferably one that has a time-limited offer on it.
We had a look around today, and there are surprisingly few places actually vacant on Sydenham Road.
The HSBC looks favourite, but there isnt a board outside anymore, so I'm not certain whether its gone or not.
The old blind shop (from memory) is also quite suited to our requirements, but again, you cant see in there, it would probably need a shed load of work doing, and its current situation is also uncertain.
We looked at Forest Hill too, and there are a couple of promising options there too.
If anyone has any inside tack on either the HSBC or the old blind shop, it would be greatly appreciated.
The HSBC looks favourite, but there isnt a board outside anymore, so I'm not certain whether its gone or not.
The old blind shop (from memory) is also quite suited to our requirements, but again, you cant see in there, it would probably need a shed load of work doing, and its current situation is also uncertain.
We looked at Forest Hill too, and there are a couple of promising options there too.
If anyone has any inside tack on either the HSBC or the old blind shop, it would be greatly appreciated.
For latest on Nickells site:
http://www.sydsoc.org/index.php?option= ... nservation
There were rumours that the HSBC building had been taken, but I have it on good authority that it's still available....
Good Luck!
http://www.sydsoc.org/index.php?option= ... nservation
There were rumours that the HSBC building had been taken, but I have it on good authority that it's still available....
Good Luck!