As you probably know, Southern have retained the franchise to operate trains to and from London Bridge and Victoria on our line until July 2015.
All eyes are now on the new Southern timetable to see whether they live up to their promise of increased investment and services.
The first signs aren't good.
As from December there will be no direct trains between Charing Cross and Sydenham.
Will our services to East Croydon go the same way?
Direct Trains to and From Charing Cross to be axed
There will be a public meeting at the Naborhood Centre in Mid September (date and times to be confirmed) at which our new rail links will be discussed with speakers from ELL and Southern. This is the time to find out details of what's proposed and a time to organise any protest if this is what is needed.
Meanwhile, further details of the new Southern timetable will, I am sure, appear in the next few weeks.
Meanwhile, further details of the new Southern timetable will, I am sure, appear in the next few weeks.
Trains to Charing Cross
I agree with all of the previous posts, we should petition against this decision. One of the reasons my family and I moved to the area was due to the fact we could catch a direct train into central London. I think this would be detrimental to the regeneration of the area. Please keep us posted about the meeting.
I agree with you all. I would definitely sign a petition if one were made available. We really do need more direct trains from Sydenham to Charing Cross. Sydenham's got a great service to London Bridge but it would save so much commuting time if this service would extend more frequently to Charing Cross during the peak hours.
Just hold on a minute!
Trains direct to Charing Cross may be axed but there will still be 6 trains per hour during the peak period and 4 trains per hour during the off peak period (to and from LB). It's just that none of them willl start or terminate at Charing Cross.
Until the new time table arrives - and it looks as if this won't be until December - we simply don't know details of the exact services. All we know is that the trains won't start or finish at Charing Cross.
Just to take up two of the points above. The service which Ladysyd quotes below - the 5.24am - will almost certainly still exist - it just means it will stop at LB and not go on to Charing Cross.
Newbie also makes the point about moving here "because of trains into central London". There will still be trains to central London (London Bridge) - lots of them. And we'll soon have an extra 8 ELL trains per hour in each direction joining them. It's just that no trains will start or terminate at Charing Cross.
Sorry to be pedantic but I just want people to understand exactly what is being proposed instead of flying into a blind panic that our trains to LB are going to be axed. They aren't.
Can I ask you to attend the meeting in September, find out the facts and then protest. I'm all for protest about local services if the need arises and I'm extremely disappointed that the promises about preserving our services to Charing Cross made in the recent local consultation document have been broken. In the meantime, if any further information comes to light, I will post this here.
Trains direct to Charing Cross may be axed but there will still be 6 trains per hour during the peak period and 4 trains per hour during the off peak period (to and from LB). It's just that none of them willl start or terminate at Charing Cross.
Until the new time table arrives - and it looks as if this won't be until December - we simply don't know details of the exact services. All we know is that the trains won't start or finish at Charing Cross.
Just to take up two of the points above. The service which Ladysyd quotes below - the 5.24am - will almost certainly still exist - it just means it will stop at LB and not go on to Charing Cross.
Newbie also makes the point about moving here "because of trains into central London". There will still be trains to central London (London Bridge) - lots of them. And we'll soon have an extra 8 ELL trains per hour in each direction joining them. It's just that no trains will start or terminate at Charing Cross.
Sorry to be pedantic but I just want people to understand exactly what is being proposed instead of flying into a blind panic that our trains to LB are going to be axed. They aren't.
Can I ask you to attend the meeting in September, find out the facts and then protest. I'm all for protest about local services if the need arises and I'm extremely disappointed that the promises about preserving our services to Charing Cross made in the recent local consultation document have been broken. In the meantime, if any further information comes to light, I will post this here.
shockingly, I agree with Nasaroc....and his comments reflect mine that I made in another topic.
Provided there are still 6 trains an hour to LB aswell as the new LO trains then losing the (few) charing cross trains will be a small (albeit annoying) price to pay. We will still have excellent links to the west end. Trains from charing cross to LB are ten a penny...changing isn't a massive deal.
Provided there are still 6 trains an hour to LB aswell as the new LO trains then losing the (few) charing cross trains will be a small (albeit annoying) price to pay. We will still have excellent links to the west end. Trains from charing cross to LB are ten a penny...changing isn't a massive deal.
Bensonby - I don't think we agree on this topic.
It is a huge setback to have trains from Charing Cross axed, especially for the many people in this area who work late night in theatres and music venues in the West End - and those attending theatres and music venues. People have already made these points to you on another thread.
I am merely reacting to those posting above who seem to believe that this will affect our trains to London Bridge. It won't.
It is a huge setback to have trains from Charing Cross axed, especially for the many people in this area who work late night in theatres and music venues in the West End - and those attending theatres and music venues. People have already made these points to you on another thread.
I am merely reacting to those posting above who seem to believe that this will affect our trains to London Bridge. It won't.
Losing the direct services to Charing Cross would be a real inconvenience. 
I know you'll still be able to change at London Bridge to get to Charing Cross, and that we wouldn't actually lose any services through Sydenham, but it really is nice in the late evening after long day at work or a night out in the West End to be able to run straight through.
I still don't understand faring very well, or how it will work after the ELL is open.
But to me the direct service from Charing Cross is/will be a big incentive to me to use the Southern services rather than the new ELL service. Don't Southern need to consider how they will compete with the ELL, and aren't they making themselves less competitive by doing away with the direct service?
If I'm in the West End after the ELL has opened, without a direct train from Charing Cross, I'd probably chose to use the Jubilee line and ELL, whereas if I can get a direct train I'd probably choose that instead.
I know you'll still be able to change at London Bridge to get to Charing Cross, and that we wouldn't actually lose any services through Sydenham, but it really is nice in the late evening after long day at work or a night out in the West End to be able to run straight through.
I still don't understand faring very well, or how it will work after the ELL is open.
But to me the direct service from Charing Cross is/will be a big incentive to me to use the Southern services rather than the new ELL service. Don't Southern need to consider how they will compete with the ELL, and aren't they making themselves less competitive by doing away with the direct service?
If I'm in the West End after the ELL has opened, without a direct train from Charing Cross, I'd probably chose to use the Jubilee line and ELL, whereas if I can get a direct train I'd probably choose that instead.
Well I hope someone somewhere is reading all these posts stating concern with the possible axing of the direct trains to Charing Cross - it would certainly add some precious time to my journey as well as many others in the mornings (when I work at Aldwych weekdays and socialise weekends). I agree that the service to LB is fairly well served at Sydenham but there's nothing so convenient and time efficient as a direct train to Charing Cross. It really would be fab if this direct service was made more frequent instead of axed.
I would certainly voice my opinion/sign a petition at the meeting in September so will watch this space for more news.
I would certainly voice my opinion/sign a petition at the meeting in September so will watch this space for more news.
This is true - LB is going to be under even greater pressure than it is already.Barty wrote:What hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread is the effect that the extensive remodelling of London Bridge will have on services....
This is the reason why services to Charing Cross have had to be curtailed, and we may see them restored when the work at LB has finished.
Where do changes to the Thameslink services come into this - as I understood it there would be many more trains going through LB that will go on to Blackfriars and City etc. But that the capacity going through to CX wouldn't improve...is that correct?
I see the Forest Hill Society has contacted Southern Railways about this, will the Sydenham Society do so as well?
http://foresthillsociety.blogspot.com/2 ... vices.html
http://foresthillsociety.blogspot.com/2 ... vices.html
I'm also very concerned about the loss of this service. I think we should be petitioning for MORE trains to Charing Cross. My understanding is that the ELL won't go into the West End, so I don't see how that will help.
I for one loath using the tube and I have a medical condition that means I can't run for trains. Many others have walking difficulties that also make it hard for them to change trains.
It all seems so unnecessary. While I can't say I've ever used the early morning service, I often use the evening one. It always seems to be packed!
I am also concerned that the London Loop between London Bridge & Victoria via Sydenham will go the same way as the other London Loop (via Peckham Rye? - sorry to be vague but I don't use that particular route). And how nice it would be to be able to get a train to Victoria on a Sunday - or at commuter times - rather than the very limited service currently on offer.
So yes please count me in for a petition and attendance at the meeting.
I for one loath using the tube and I have a medical condition that means I can't run for trains. Many others have walking difficulties that also make it hard for them to change trains.
It all seems so unnecessary. While I can't say I've ever used the early morning service, I often use the evening one. It always seems to be packed!
I am also concerned that the London Loop between London Bridge & Victoria via Sydenham will go the same way as the other London Loop (via Peckham Rye? - sorry to be vague but I don't use that particular route). And how nice it would be to be able to get a train to Victoria on a Sunday - or at commuter times - rather than the very limited service currently on offer.
So yes please count me in for a petition and attendance at the meeting.
I went to the Meet the Managers meeting at LB this morning.
This is what I discovered. The important thing to grasp is that there will be two future Southern timetables – one in December 2009 and one in May 2010 prior to the start of the new ELR:
1. In December there will be no significant changes to our timetable to LB (6 trains per hour peak; 6 trains per hour off-peak at most other times). However, trains running from and to Charing Cross along our line will be axed. The axing of CX trains is a permanent timetable change (it isn’t a temporary change because of work at LB as someone has suggested above). Southern say that they argued strongly in the RUS (the public consultation) for retention of Charing Cross services (and even for an extension of these services) and that the evidence is there in their submission to the RUS. Network Rail thought differently and awarded our slots at CX to Southeastern.
2. In May 2010 our off-peak services to LB will be cut from 6 to 4 tph but the loop service to Victoria will be retained and will start earlier around 7am. Our twice hourly service to E Croydon will continue even when services are cut to 4 trains per hour. Peak hours services to and from LB will continue at 6 tph.
In addition to these service amendments, other changes will be:
1. TfL to take over stations from September 20 – giving staffing at all stations from first to last train plus rebranding and major “clean up” (repainting, repairs etc) of stations.
2. Extension of platforms by end 2012 to take 10 and 12 carriage trains.
3. The new date for the introduction of Oystercard PAYG is 2nd January 2010
So the upside is – new ELR, earlier start to trains to Victoria, staffed stations at all times trains are operating, longer trains for 2013 and the eventual introduction of Oystercards. The downside is no more Charing Cross trains and off peak trains to LB cut by one third.
The Sydenham Society is organising a FUTURE RAIL SERVICES meeting at 7.30pm at the Naborhood Centre, Sydenham Road on September 17. There will be speakers from TFL and Southern who will outline the future of our local rail services and answer questions from the floor. This is an essential meeting for alll local commuters. Please attend.
This is what I discovered. The important thing to grasp is that there will be two future Southern timetables – one in December 2009 and one in May 2010 prior to the start of the new ELR:
1. In December there will be no significant changes to our timetable to LB (6 trains per hour peak; 6 trains per hour off-peak at most other times). However, trains running from and to Charing Cross along our line will be axed. The axing of CX trains is a permanent timetable change (it isn’t a temporary change because of work at LB as someone has suggested above). Southern say that they argued strongly in the RUS (the public consultation) for retention of Charing Cross services (and even for an extension of these services) and that the evidence is there in their submission to the RUS. Network Rail thought differently and awarded our slots at CX to Southeastern.
2. In May 2010 our off-peak services to LB will be cut from 6 to 4 tph but the loop service to Victoria will be retained and will start earlier around 7am. Our twice hourly service to E Croydon will continue even when services are cut to 4 trains per hour. Peak hours services to and from LB will continue at 6 tph.
In addition to these service amendments, other changes will be:
1. TfL to take over stations from September 20 – giving staffing at all stations from first to last train plus rebranding and major “clean up” (repainting, repairs etc) of stations.
2. Extension of platforms by end 2012 to take 10 and 12 carriage trains.
3. The new date for the introduction of Oystercard PAYG is 2nd January 2010
So the upside is – new ELR, earlier start to trains to Victoria, staffed stations at all times trains are operating, longer trains for 2013 and the eventual introduction of Oystercards. The downside is no more Charing Cross trains and off peak trains to LB cut by one third.
The Sydenham Society is organising a FUTURE RAIL SERVICES meeting at 7.30pm at the Naborhood Centre, Sydenham Road on September 17. There will be speakers from TFL and Southern who will outline the future of our local rail services and answer questions from the floor. This is an essential meeting for alll local commuters. Please attend.