I got a bright 4 colour brochure through the door today about the new high street proposals (has the council not heard of recycled paper or fsc paper, simply astonishing!!!).
I will post what I think later. My first impression is 'did this really take 2 years to come up with, it's not rocket science, just do it for goodness sake, stop talking, make it happen!'.
RENEWED HIGH STREET PROPOSALS
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castiron73
- Posts: 132
- Joined: 24 Oct 2006 10:05
- Location: Sydenham Thorpes
Agree. It's hardly groundbreaking after all the discussion.
26 trees (subject to trial excavation) and some granite cobbles.
The roundabout gets a facelift and they may close off Queensthorpe Road, which sounds good to me if it stops idiots zooming through the Thorpes.
The digitally altered images show that it's not going to make much difference because the shops and building sites still look so ugly.
But we do seem to be getting a Thomas Cook...
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26 trees (subject to trial excavation) and some granite cobbles.
The roundabout gets a facelift and they may close off Queensthorpe Road, which sounds good to me if it stops idiots zooming through the Thorpes.
The digitally altered images show that it's not going to make much difference because the shops and building sites still look so ugly.
But we do seem to be getting a Thomas Cook...
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Lewisham were kind enough to send me an electronic copy of the consultation document. I have added my not always kind commentary and you can download it here: http://www.sydenham.org.uk/news_sydenha ... ation.html
I shall be interested if you agree/disagree ...
Admin
I shall be interested if you agree/disagree ...
Admin
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scott.l.hamilton
- Posts: 120
- Joined: 28 Jan 2008 11:51
- Location: SE26
On the whole, I do not object to the plan as presented. The plan will certainly make it more pedestrian and "consumer" friendly. I also like the "pocket squares". If done properly they add quite a bit of character and fresh vegetable stands etc... would be great.
Overall, I like the plan and any change will be an improvement. While it may not be as sweeping a change as some would like, at least it is an achievable start to get momentum going in the right direction.
Also, they are in contact with the owners of the Greyhound to tie the forecourt into the design? Please tell me there is progress in getting the greyhound up and running again; as well as the numerous other vacant shops (ie, ICT learing, HSBC, Pharmacy etc..)
Overall, I like the plan and any change will be an improvement. While it may not be as sweeping a change as some would like, at least it is an achievable start to get momentum going in the right direction.
Also, they are in contact with the owners of the Greyhound to tie the forecourt into the design? Please tell me there is progress in getting the greyhound up and running again; as well as the numerous other vacant shops (ie, ICT learing, HSBC, Pharmacy etc..)
I was also underwhelmed by the lack of substance and imagination in the expensively produced document. I'm also puzzled as to why they want our views. Isn't that the reason many of us walked up and down the High Street with our suggestions? The only major change seems to be a couple of trees and pavement at Venner Road - and what looks like serious competion for Angie's Flower Stall. Hardly earth shattering. I notice the photos carefully avoid the shop fronts with no name and there is noticeable lack of cars going along the High Street. And why can't we have a few planters if the pavements aren't suitable for trees? Anyway I will dutifully fill in my questionnaire...
I was wondering if anybody here would like to do a walk of the high street this week to compare the proposals with the actualite? It might help to get a feel for what will work well and what may be more problematical.
Sean could bring his camera (if not I'll bring mine) and we could record our impressions for others.
Ending up in the Dolphin maybe ? Watchafink? I could do Tuesday or Thursday.
Admin
Sean could bring his camera (if not I'll bring mine) and we could record our impressions for others.
Ending up in the Dolphin maybe ? Watchafink? I could do Tuesday or Thursday.
Admin
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castiron73
- Posts: 132
- Joined: 24 Oct 2006 10:05
- Location: Sydenham Thorpes
Hope to join you ...
Admin:
I could join you tomorrow morning or Thursday. Can't do Saturday at all - shame, since I'd like to meet up with Sean at last. There's a Town Centre Management meeting with our official Town Centre manager coming up next week. I'll make sure they know what people on this thread are thinking.
I could join you tomorrow morning or Thursday. Can't do Saturday at all - shame, since I'd like to meet up with Sean at last. There's a Town Centre Management meeting with our official Town Centre manager coming up next week. I'll make sure they know what people on this thread are thinking.
Having chewed the fat for a few days I think in general everything makes sense.
It's a shame they took so long to come up with what is in general common sense.
• Pocket Parks are good if the stalls are quality that trade there. This needs to be carefully managed.
• Removing the awful damaged street barriers are good.
• The few trees are good.
• Advertising signs are not liked and are not needed. Let's loose them, I work in design and advertising and I think the clutter streetscapes and are ineffective.
• Raised areas are good.
• We need to 'just do it'. None of the proposals are bad, but does it really take this long?
• Can we continue this further down the hill towards Bell Green later when theis scheme has proven itself?
• Can the street furniture be bespoke and not some 'generic off the peg make sydenham the same as every where else, cheap as possible' street furniture
• How about nice signs saying 'welcome to Sydenham'?
• can we have planting on the roundabout. Not an abundance of chintzy flowers but something well designed and low maintenance?
Unless we change the way some of the shops look, this is only going to have a minor effect on the town.
The issue of empty shops needs to be addressed. As I said before, why not board these up and paint the frontage with a mural as if the shop was open or some other design? We have design college and a wealth of creative talent like artmongers that would do a great job.
None of the proposals address the station which appears to have no provision for bicycles and can certainly be improved. How LA fitness gets away with that awful signage and sign near that station is beyond belief!
It's a shame they took so long to come up with what is in general common sense.
• Pocket Parks are good if the stalls are quality that trade there. This needs to be carefully managed.
• Removing the awful damaged street barriers are good.
• The few trees are good.
• Advertising signs are not liked and are not needed. Let's loose them, I work in design and advertising and I think the clutter streetscapes and are ineffective.
• Raised areas are good.
• We need to 'just do it'. None of the proposals are bad, but does it really take this long?
• Can we continue this further down the hill towards Bell Green later when theis scheme has proven itself?
• Can the street furniture be bespoke and not some 'generic off the peg make sydenham the same as every where else, cheap as possible' street furniture
• How about nice signs saying 'welcome to Sydenham'?
• can we have planting on the roundabout. Not an abundance of chintzy flowers but something well designed and low maintenance?
Unless we change the way some of the shops look, this is only going to have a minor effect on the town.
The issue of empty shops needs to be addressed. As I said before, why not board these up and paint the frontage with a mural as if the shop was open or some other design? We have design college and a wealth of creative talent like artmongers that would do a great job.
None of the proposals address the station which appears to have no provision for bicycles and can certainly be improved. How LA fitness gets away with that awful signage and sign near that station is beyond belief!
Tim,
Why not meet at 10am in Sugahill tomorrow/Tuesday? We could progess down the street to the Dolphin/Mayow Road. Anybody else welcome. We can repeat the event Thursday/Saturday as needs be.
I feel it would be very good to talk through initial impressions with another viewpoint. After all consensus is what we need to find.
Admin
Why not meet at 10am in Sugahill tomorrow/Tuesday? We could progess down the street to the Dolphin/Mayow Road. Anybody else welcome. We can repeat the event Thursday/Saturday as needs be.
I feel it would be very good to talk through initial impressions with another viewpoint. After all consensus is what we need to find.
Admin
high street
I have not seen the proposals yet as I have been a away from home and still am. Just to say though, can I make a plea not to lobby for planters.
Whenever I have seen these in high streets, including where I grew up, they end up adding to the clutter and are rarely maintained. So all you end up with are ugly, large containers full of weeds and rubbish - not nice at all....
I also agree about the roundabout, some nice architectural, low maintenance shrubs would make a big difference....they are used on lots of roundabouts so hopefully the council won't be able to argue against them because of health and safety...
Also, something simple like having the bin liners the same colour as the bins would make them look much more tidy. The green bins at the moment, look awful with the blue liners - I know it sounds petty but I think it would make a small difference....
Whenever I have seen these in high streets, including where I grew up, they end up adding to the clutter and are rarely maintained. So all you end up with are ugly, large containers full of weeds and rubbish - not nice at all....
I also agree about the roundabout, some nice architectural, low maintenance shrubs would make a big difference....they are used on lots of roundabouts so hopefully the council won't be able to argue against them because of health and safety...
Also, something simple like having the bin liners the same colour as the bins would make them look much more tidy. The green bins at the moment, look awful with the blue liners - I know it sounds petty but I think it would make a small difference....
I agree with you Poppy, planters can become fancy litter bins and often look worse than if they weren't there at all.
Also it's a nice thought about the litter bins, but can we have nicer litter bins. Better street furniture?
This is an off the wall thought, but what if the budget for the High Street was given to the Sydenham Society and local people got to source the street furniture, design the planing for the roundabout and got local builders etc to make it all happen? There are lots of local designers and architects. I'd rather decorate my own house rather than getting someone who has a cheap batch of beige paint to do it for me.
Also it's a nice thought about the litter bins, but can we have nicer litter bins. Better street furniture?
This is an off the wall thought, but what if the budget for the High Street was given to the Sydenham Society and local people got to source the street furniture, design the planing for the roundabout and got local builders etc to make it all happen? There are lots of local designers and architects. I'd rather decorate my own house rather than getting someone who has a cheap batch of beige paint to do it for me.
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castiron73
- Posts: 132
- Joined: 24 Oct 2006 10:05
- Location: Sydenham Thorpes
I've been having the same thought, leenewham.
The bland design is clearly a product of too many meetings and compromises.
I don't trust Steve Bullock to have good taste in choosing our street scheme, based purely (and no doubt unfairly) on his 'beard of bees' - a look favoured by the likes of James Whale and Gary Bushell.
But, sadly, getting locals to spend the money will mean even more committees and arguments. Who do you appoint to have good taste and who appoints them? The Sydenham Society does not speak for everyone, as this forum proves. I did the Living Streets high street walk in Pat Trembath's group and couldn't get a word in. She pointed out the planters by the post office that the Society had put in. Eighties red brick and full of weeds and cans of Special Brew.
You can imagine how any local design would probably have to reflect the cultural and social diversity of the area and involve ghastly railings designed by primary school children. Do you trust the people of Sydenham to vote for a good design?
If we have to have a bland design then I'd rather some of the money raised was spent on improving the shops themselves. Each shop front and flat doorway could be remodelled to make the most of the beautiful buildings that we have left. In return the shopkeepers and chains would have to accept a standard design that makes the high street work as a whole and any future changes could be limited within planning laws.
The bland design is clearly a product of too many meetings and compromises.
I don't trust Steve Bullock to have good taste in choosing our street scheme, based purely (and no doubt unfairly) on his 'beard of bees' - a look favoured by the likes of James Whale and Gary Bushell.
But, sadly, getting locals to spend the money will mean even more committees and arguments. Who do you appoint to have good taste and who appoints them? The Sydenham Society does not speak for everyone, as this forum proves. I did the Living Streets high street walk in Pat Trembath's group and couldn't get a word in. She pointed out the planters by the post office that the Society had put in. Eighties red brick and full of weeds and cans of Special Brew.
You can imagine how any local design would probably have to reflect the cultural and social diversity of the area and involve ghastly railings designed by primary school children. Do you trust the people of Sydenham to vote for a good design?
If we have to have a bland design then I'd rather some of the money raised was spent on improving the shops themselves. Each shop front and flat doorway could be remodelled to make the most of the beautiful buildings that we have left. In return the shopkeepers and chains would have to accept a standard design that makes the high street work as a whole and any future changes could be limited within planning laws.
OMG
Lee wrote:
There is a case for more local control of spending decisions, but I wouldn't give up on formal democracy. Cllr Chris Best is taking forward the Sydenham Assembly, and it is through this, I think, that more localism in spending public money can be legitimised . I wouldn't be the chair of SydSoc if I thought we were alternatives to proper democracy, rather than a way of helping democratic systems work better.
Thanks for the thought, but I don't think so - I don't think our constitution would allow it. I was once the chair of a residents' association in Peckham, and a speculative letter I wrote managed to produce £20K in planning gain (section 106) from some developers. What a nightmare, as various people in the area started speculating what our committee was doing with all that money, while in fact it was tied up in Southwark Council bureaucracy, I hope, at least, earning interest.what if the budget for the High Street was given to the Sydenham Society
There is a case for more local control of spending decisions, but I wouldn't give up on formal democracy. Cllr Chris Best is taking forward the Sydenham Assembly, and it is through this, I think, that more localism in spending public money can be legitimised . I wouldn't be the chair of SydSoc if I thought we were alternatives to proper democracy, rather than a way of helping democratic systems work better.