Question for Steve or anyone who can help: what was the first historical directory to feature Sydenham and what kind of information does it contain? Next question: when and how did directories--featuring Sydenham--improve in their content? Finally, can somebody please show me a sample of what a page from a typical Rate Book looks like? (somewhere in Sydenham would be ideal, as this is the area we're all familiar with!)
How can a rate book help us date a building?
Directories and Rating Books are said to be major sources for historian and genealogists alike. Steve already touched on another interesting source--Drainage records--at his talk, which I find very interesting, and don't recall them being covered in a general local history book I had a flick through. Anyway, any help would be much appreciated!
Researching Local History/Genealogy
I had a look at some directories today and noticed the following:
*People can be arranged by Surname, Trade or Street depending on the type of directory sub-section (Commercial, Trade, Street).
*Information includes: Head of Household, address, and sometimes trade.
The major problems I found are:
1) Earlier directories do not include a street directory sub-section, so the only way to lookup entries is by Surname. The same goes for smaller villages--for all periods--hence there is no street directory for St Mary Cray or St Paul's Cray in Kent, but there one is for, say, Orpington or Farnborough!?
2) Earlier directories do not include street numbers. For the village of St Mary Cray, street numbers first appear in the 1926 directory (Kelly's Bromley). Before that, an address might simply say "High Street" (without a number).
3) Earlier directories do not list all common folk.
*People can be arranged by Surname, Trade or Street depending on the type of directory sub-section (Commercial, Trade, Street).
*Information includes: Head of Household, address, and sometimes trade.
The major problems I found are:
1) Earlier directories do not include a street directory sub-section, so the only way to lookup entries is by Surname. The same goes for smaller villages--for all periods--hence there is no street directory for St Mary Cray or St Paul's Cray in Kent, but there one is for, say, Orpington or Farnborough!?
2) Earlier directories do not include street numbers. For the village of St Mary Cray, street numbers first appear in the 1926 directory (Kelly's Bromley). Before that, an address might simply say "High Street" (without a number).
3) Earlier directories do not list all common folk.
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Steve Grindlay
- Posts: 606
- Joined: 4 Oct 2004 05:07
- Location: Upper Sydenham
Here is a brief and inadequate answer.
The earliest directory I know of that mentions Sydenham is Holden's, published about 1805. This is little more than an alphabetical list of the most important residents. I've uploaded a transcript of it <here>
Ratebooks only list householders who were liable to pay rates. The lists are in the order in which the assessor visited, so it is usually possible to work out who lived in which house. The amount of rate paid give clues as to the relative size of the houses, and by comparing the amount from one year to the next can suggest when a house was rebuilt or enlarged.
I've uploaded an <annotated transcript from the 1818 ratebook>. The left hand column is the original entry, the square brackets and right-hand column are John Coulter's notes.
Until the introduction of the penny post in the mid 19th century there were no formal addresses, so directories before the 1850s were often just a list of most important residents with, sometimes, the name of their house. After the 1850s houses tended to be numbered, but even then it wasn't consistent. Although invaluable, street directories need to be used with some care; sometimes they were compiled by the editor visiting each house, sometimes the householder was invited to send information to the editor. Some directories are certainly more detailed and accurate than others and, of course, the date of publication can be a year or more after the information was originally gathered (I have a copy of one that is a direct copy of a directory produced three years earlier). Information, including mis-spelt names, was often copied from one directory to another.
I've uploaded a <couple of other directories> as well.
The earliest directory I know of that mentions Sydenham is Holden's, published about 1805. This is little more than an alphabetical list of the most important residents. I've uploaded a transcript of it <here>
Ratebooks only list householders who were liable to pay rates. The lists are in the order in which the assessor visited, so it is usually possible to work out who lived in which house. The amount of rate paid give clues as to the relative size of the houses, and by comparing the amount from one year to the next can suggest when a house was rebuilt or enlarged.
I've uploaded an <annotated transcript from the 1818 ratebook>. The left hand column is the original entry, the square brackets and right-hand column are John Coulter's notes.
Until the introduction of the penny post in the mid 19th century there were no formal addresses, so directories before the 1850s were often just a list of most important residents with, sometimes, the name of their house. After the 1850s houses tended to be numbered, but even then it wasn't consistent. Although invaluable, street directories need to be used with some care; sometimes they were compiled by the editor visiting each house, sometimes the householder was invited to send information to the editor. Some directories are certainly more detailed and accurate than others and, of course, the date of publication can be a year or more after the information was originally gathered (I have a copy of one that is a direct copy of a directory produced three years earlier). Information, including mis-spelt names, was often copied from one directory to another.
I've uploaded a <couple of other directories> as well.
I thought I might end up having to take this topic to a different forum, but you've provided a more than comprehensive answer, Steve; cheers. I'm just a beginner when it comes to local history, and these kinds of questions may bother you in the same way that the Windows XP problem--over in the Town Pub section--bothers me. I just haven't got the patience to reply to that topic, but luckily Sydenham has DigitalFX to aid them with their PC problems (I wonder if he's listed in the 2008 trade directory?)Here is a brief and inadequate answer.
So thanks for taking the time out to upload the directories and scan in the ratebook example for me; first time I've ever seen one! I expected them to have more information. It seems like they contain just a simple list of people who pay rates for substantial properties, sorted by street order. I don't see how they can be of much use other than studying the figures. It's just that Ken Kiss was telling me once that if he could find the rate books for Penge (or whatever area) then he could use them to find out what year Rockhills was first built. God knows how he would manage that--even if he had the sources.
Anyway, this topic has turned out to be very informative--not just for me--but for anyone researching local history/Sydenham.