We have been discussing this for some time with various parties.
Have a look to see what we have been up to:
http://whatifsydenham.wordpress.com/201 ... -approach/
WHAT IF 20: STATION APPROACH
Re: WHAT IF 20: STATION APPROACH
I have mixed feelings about this one, Lee. I love the idea of filling the old sign frames. However, if I saw a sign like that, I would wonder if it was a 'proper' station sign and how up to date the information on it was. If I was looking for the station, I don't know if I would believe this lovely sign, but would carry on looking for an official one! Perverse, I know.
Re: WHAT IF 20: STATION APPROACH
Hi Rachel,
The times are from an official timetable.
Currently, there isn't much to direct people towards the station or to let people know there is a coffee shop there and that it's not a long journey to London Bridge (and to add some other possible destinations from the station that people may not be aware of).
But all that's a bonus, it's essentially a bit of 'funcitonal art'. It's primary role is decorative.
The times are from an official timetable.
Currently, there isn't much to direct people towards the station or to let people know there is a coffee shop there and that it's not a long journey to London Bridge (and to add some other possible destinations from the station that people may not be aware of).
But all that's a bonus, it's essentially a bit of 'funcitonal art'. It's primary role is decorative.
Re: WHAT IF 20: STATION APPROACH
I know the times are from the official timetable, my point is, as a casual user of the station, I might wonder if the information was out of date.
But I do think it's a great idea to direct people to the station and I'm probably the only one who has an issue with this. I'd quite like to see the sign say 'Station Approach' in the large font, followed by 'Leading to...' and a list of everything that's down there. I love the idea of making the signs look like they have been there forever, as well.
But I do think it's a great idea to direct people to the station and I'm probably the only one who has an issue with this. I'd quite like to see the sign say 'Station Approach' in the large font, followed by 'Leading to...' and a list of everything that's down there. I love the idea of making the signs look like they have been there forever, as well.
Last edited by Rachael on 23 Sep 2013 15:05, edited 1 time in total.
Re: WHAT IF 20: STATION APPROACH
Well, I may do that as an option.
Anyone else have any issue with the times? Are there to mant? Should it be just one?
Normally I'd be against putting too much informtaion on a sign like this as I doubt anyone would actually read it. It's just to keep in the style of old 'ghost signs' like some of these: http://www.ghostsigns.co.uk/ (I love this site!).
Anyone else have any issue with the times? Are there to mant? Should it be just one?
Normally I'd be against putting too much informtaion on a sign like this as I doubt anyone would actually read it. It's just to keep in the style of old 'ghost signs' like some of these: http://www.ghostsigns.co.uk/ (I love this site!).
Re: WHAT IF 20: STATION APPROACH
Hello. This is a lovely idea.
The colours are strong on the station sign, though I think the decorative font used for 'leading to' and 'refreshments' is quite hard to read.
Property World signage - I'm not a fan of the distressed/retro look, but otherwise think this is a great improvement.
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The colours are strong on the station sign, though I think the decorative font used for 'leading to' and 'refreshments' is quite hard to read.
Property World signage - I'm not a fan of the distressed/retro look, but otherwise think this is a great improvement.
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
Re: WHAT IF 20: STATION APPROACH
Don't cringe leenewham, me again 
OK cringe.
I agree with Rachael that the current railway logo is what I'd be looking out for. An old fashioned station sign would make me wonder if the station was now disused (or unloved) or was a disused or wrong entrance, e.g. which is the entrance for trains going to East Croydon etc if Station Approach is for "up" trains? Historically, there were two entrances, one either side of the road for up/down trains. Also, considering modern numerous interchange transport links, why specify three destination stations and why those three? Beats me.
I imagine "On the Hoof" (assuming it doesn't change hands with consequent name changes) will be happy, especially as the new convenience shop selling good coffee, hot pastries, newspapers, groceries is nicely excluded ho hum. The "Station Approach Parade" sign is long out of date now (Paul James Hairdresser went some time back) - is that sign within your remit to be kept up to date? as that could include On the Hoof's name.
Good luck getting Property World to agree such a retrospective design at the same time overwriting what is their current brand logo.
Considering the scope of trains/interchanges now available from Sydenham together with investment in the station, why on earth would anyone want to go backwards in time to advertise the future?
OK cringe.I agree with Rachael that the current railway logo is what I'd be looking out for. An old fashioned station sign would make me wonder if the station was now disused (or unloved) or was a disused or wrong entrance, e.g. which is the entrance for trains going to East Croydon etc if Station Approach is for "up" trains? Historically, there were two entrances, one either side of the road for up/down trains. Also, considering modern numerous interchange transport links, why specify three destination stations and why those three? Beats me.
I imagine "On the Hoof" (assuming it doesn't change hands with consequent name changes) will be happy, especially as the new convenience shop selling good coffee, hot pastries, newspapers, groceries is nicely excluded ho hum. The "Station Approach Parade" sign is long out of date now (Paul James Hairdresser went some time back) - is that sign within your remit to be kept up to date? as that could include On the Hoof's name.
Good luck getting Property World to agree such a retrospective design at the same time overwriting what is their current brand logo.
Considering the scope of trains/interchanges now available from Sydenham together with investment in the station, why on earth would anyone want to go backwards in time to advertise the future?
Re: WHAT IF 20: STATION APPROACH
On The Hoof are the only people trading in the station and they don't intend going anywhere in the near future. I'm not 'excuding' anyone. From the road you can see the new convenience store, you can't see On The Hoof. Infact it's a little hidden away in the corner and could do with some extra help in my book.
As for 'going backwards in time to advertise the future', well, why not? It's just a style that fits the building. Using history to seel is nothing new Mosy:
How about this (which is probably the closest to how to how it will finally look in style and quality and is actually new: http://www.ghostsigns.co.uk/2012/07/ful ... touts.html
or this which we did in North Harrow recently (this is new too):
http://whatifsydenham.files.wordpress.c ... m_0029.jpg
or
http://www.deliciousindustries.com/blog/made-by-cows
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4tFzuFGUOI
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wuv7IuFpJi8
As for 'going backwards in time to advertise the future', well, why not? It's just a style that fits the building. Using history to seel is nothing new Mosy:
How about this (which is probably the closest to how to how it will finally look in style and quality and is actually new: http://www.ghostsigns.co.uk/2012/07/ful ... touts.html
or this which we did in North Harrow recently (this is new too):
http://whatifsydenham.files.wordpress.c ... m_0029.jpg
or
http://www.deliciousindustries.com/blog/made-by-cows
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4tFzuFGUOI
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wuv7IuFpJi8
Re: WHAT IF 20: STATION APPROACH
leenewham, you're clearly set on this retro thing, I love retro just not for the Station.
You posted links: Cadbury are US owned so wouldn't have been the first thing that'd spring to my mind to advertise on a shop's blurb but perhaps you'd say I was ignoring history = fair enough; Anchor butter, Hovis and John Lewis are both selling "long established" reputation and quality, not "new", rather "still going strong".
However, Sydenham Station is new in terms of its new overground links and connections. Sure railways are long established, but the new links from the station imply "Zoom everywhere" rather than "trains to London".
I could well be on my own thinking signage to the Station should be modern, even backlit (light box) if the sign is supposed to be an "official" direction indicator. If the railway operator puts up its own lighted sign on a stalk post (don't know why they haven't actually), would any sign at second floor level even be noticed other than perceived as an old building decoration - or maybe that's the idea? (At a cost.)
Hope lots of posters will offer positive views on your retro idea for the Station, sorry I can't be one of them for this location.
You posted links: Cadbury are US owned so wouldn't have been the first thing that'd spring to my mind to advertise on a shop's blurb but perhaps you'd say I was ignoring history = fair enough; Anchor butter, Hovis and John Lewis are both selling "long established" reputation and quality, not "new", rather "still going strong".
However, Sydenham Station is new in terms of its new overground links and connections. Sure railways are long established, but the new links from the station imply "Zoom everywhere" rather than "trains to London".
I could well be on my own thinking signage to the Station should be modern, even backlit (light box) if the sign is supposed to be an "official" direction indicator. If the railway operator puts up its own lighted sign on a stalk post (don't know why they haven't actually), would any sign at second floor level even be noticed other than perceived as an old building decoration - or maybe that's the idea? (At a cost.)
Hope lots of posters will offer positive views on your retro idea for the Station, sorry I can't be one of them for this location.
Re: WHAT IF 20: STATION APPROACH
Well, it's a conservation area Mosy, so I doubt they woudl get permissoin anyway for such a sign.
And as I said in the post, this is 'funcional artwork' not an official railway sign, nor is it intended to be. The idea is to make it look like it belongs on the building. I dont think something along the lines you talk about is right for the space or the building.
As for the Cadbury's logo on the examples I gave, it's on a newsagents that sells Cadbury's. Cadbury's were very happy to have a retro version of their logo on the building. It's still a British brand, I"m not sure what the US owners (who bought it after we did the sign) has got to do with it.
Don't worry Mosy, I woudn't expect a positive review from you, I don't think I have yet! It's not why we do it this. We do it because we think we can make things better locally. The little bit of spare time we have we use to do these things with the hope that they will be taken up. We don't always get things right and for some reason seem to have more support for this elsewhere than within Sydenham. We get a better reaction when the work is just done rather than sharing the concepts and ideas (which is what happened with On The Hoof, Billings, Jill etc) so perhaps that is a better way of doing this in the future.
So, what do people think?
Is this a better idea than leaving it as it is?
Should it be simpler and lose the times or is that useful?
And as I said in the post, this is 'funcional artwork' not an official railway sign, nor is it intended to be. The idea is to make it look like it belongs on the building. I dont think something along the lines you talk about is right for the space or the building.
As for the Cadbury's logo on the examples I gave, it's on a newsagents that sells Cadbury's. Cadbury's were very happy to have a retro version of their logo on the building. It's still a British brand, I"m not sure what the US owners (who bought it after we did the sign) has got to do with it.
Don't worry Mosy, I woudn't expect a positive review from you, I don't think I have yet!
It's not why we do it this. We do it because we think we can make things better locally. The little bit of spare time we have we use to do these things with the hope that they will be taken up. We don't always get things right and for some reason seem to have more support for this elsewhere than within Sydenham. We get a better reaction when the work is just done rather than sharing the concepts and ideas (which is what happened with On The Hoof, Billings, Jill etc) so perhaps that is a better way of doing this in the future. So, what do people think?
Is this a better idea than leaving it as it is?
Should it be simpler and lose the times or is that useful?
Re: WHAT IF 20: STATION APPROACH
Love it, Lee.
It really lifts the side of that building. I actually do really like the retro styling.
Do you ever sleep..??
It really lifts the side of that building. I actually do really like the retro styling.
Do you ever sleep..??
Re: WHAT IF 20: STATION APPROACH
With a 2 year old, not much!
Re: WHAT IF 20: STATION APPROACH
I don't like retro - but it would be great if it happened. Good design in a style you don't like IMHO always trumps less good design in styles you do like and 99% of what we see in SE26.mosy wrote:leenewham, you're clearly set on this retro thing, I love retro just not for the Station.
Plus it is informative and replaces the 'times to destinations' board that used to be at the top of Station Approach. That's the best bit of advertising to come live in and enjoy Sydenham you can possibly have. Our Estate Agents should be forming a disorderly queue to sponsor it!
Don't give up Lee. The greatest stuff was always criticised at birth. Its just such a pity that Sydenham (and the UK) punches well above its weight in doing design but way below in using it. That's why great British Architecture is mostly built abroad.
Stuart
Re: WHAT IF 20: STATION APPROACH
Thanks Stuart. I'm not giving up, just pondering if this is the best way to make things happen. By posting here I'm taking a chance and trying to democratise design and change, but perhaps democracy isn't the best tool.
Look at Forest Hill. Traders supported by the FH Society have acheived much. The Greyhound mural happened due to support by the the Sydenham Society and the arts trail (I know it's not installed yet but the mural is made and exists). The Naborhood Mosaic happened due to support by the Sydenham Society and cllrs. Billings happened due to support by members of the Sydenham Society and the Outdoor Gym in Home park becasme reality due to the hard work by Local Treasure, Anthony and members of Friends Of Home Park.
What I'm saying is that to make any of this happen (as in any of the What If's, or anyother projects like this locally), it will probably need support. Speaking to shops, constructive criticism, saying 'yes we want it to happen, but what if...(we changed Kente many times, and Musti's designs due to constructive feedback which was brilliant) all help. Or how about voicing yoru own ideas like the Christmas group recently has.
If you don't want it to happen, then obviously don't support it, say no or just keep quiet becasue that way it won't happen and things will stay as they are.
This goes for any scheme. Not just this.
There is funding available to do this particular what if, so it could happen.
Look at Forest Hill. Traders supported by the FH Society have acheived much. The Greyhound mural happened due to support by the the Sydenham Society and the arts trail (I know it's not installed yet but the mural is made and exists). The Naborhood Mosaic happened due to support by the Sydenham Society and cllrs. Billings happened due to support by members of the Sydenham Society and the Outdoor Gym in Home park becasme reality due to the hard work by Local Treasure, Anthony and members of Friends Of Home Park.
What I'm saying is that to make any of this happen (as in any of the What If's, or anyother projects like this locally), it will probably need support. Speaking to shops, constructive criticism, saying 'yes we want it to happen, but what if...(we changed Kente many times, and Musti's designs due to constructive feedback which was brilliant) all help. Or how about voicing yoru own ideas like the Christmas group recently has.
If you don't want it to happen, then obviously don't support it, say no or just keep quiet becasue that way it won't happen and things will stay as they are.
This goes for any scheme. Not just this.
There is funding available to do this particular what if, so it could happen.
Re: WHAT IF 20: STATION APPROACH
I think the What If concept is a great initiative.
But this one isn’t my favourite- I don’t see the reason for having a retro design, what’s the link, why is it connected to Sydenham, when we are moving up forwards?
I’m inclined to think of a more contemporary design with less detail too in order for the large sign to keep visible at the top.
May be I miss the point here- but surely if you used this ‘retro’ Property World sign then they would need to change all their logos to suit? I think that they should change their logo but just not to this one.
Sorry Lee to not actually produce ideas but will start thinking.
Good luck
But this one isn’t my favourite- I don’t see the reason for having a retro design, what’s the link, why is it connected to Sydenham, when we are moving up forwards?
I’m inclined to think of a more contemporary design with less detail too in order for the large sign to keep visible at the top.
May be I miss the point here- but surely if you used this ‘retro’ Property World sign then they would need to change all their logos to suit? I think that they should change their logo but just not to this one.
Sorry Lee to not actually produce ideas but will start thinking.
Good luck
Re: WHAT IF 20: STATION APPROACH
Go for it Lee,
you have good ideas and it will be nice to see Station approach tidied up.
You can never please everyone,but don't let that put you off.
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you have good ideas and it will be nice to see Station approach tidied up.
You can never please everyone,but don't let that put you off.
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Re: WHAT IF 20: STATION APPROACH
What would be even better is if you could incorporate the "Sydenham Station Approach" road sign into the 'mural' giving it a bit more panache than the obstructive bit of hardware which could be quietly lost.
I do hope you get funding. Please ensure any funding has an ongoing maintenance element. Paint fades, and we would want to renew the message every few years!
Stuart
I do hope you get funding. Please ensure any funding has an ongoing maintenance element. Paint fades, and we would want to renew the message every few years!
Stuart
Re: WHAT IF 20: STATION APPROACH
Love the station sign but think the arrow doesn't stand out enough. I like those old pointy fingers you see at some stations.
I agree it needs a maintenance budget as for example when journey times change.
Also two signposts needed for up and down trains/ ticket office. Or is there step free access yet from ticket office to up line?
I don't like Property World sign , but that's because I find it bland (sorry Lee) rather than because it's retro.
Finally, don't confuse this site with democracy! It's a small group of people communicating in one format and not accessible to all.
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I agree it needs a maintenance budget as for example when journey times change.
Also two signposts needed for up and down trains/ ticket office. Or is there step free access yet from ticket office to up line?
I don't like Property World sign , but that's because I find it bland (sorry Lee) rather than because it's retro.
Finally, don't confuse this site with democracy! It's a small group of people communicating in one format and not accessible to all.
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
Re: WHAT IF 20: STATION APPROACH
Hi leenewham. Do you know if Property World have long term dibs on the lower panel? I ask because I see that their logo is not there now (as of this morning) so wondering if you could utilise both panels. 
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jonathan_har
- Posts: 55
- Joined: 28 Aug 2011 14:23
- Location: sydenham
Re: WHAT IF 20: STATION APPROACH
As ever Lee, a great initiative. Normally the vintage look makes me struggle to keep my cupcakes down, but in this location I think it is rather suitable given the elaborate cornicing and moulded sign surround. Perhaps some work on the legibility, although that might just be the image. Keep up the good work! Jonathan