Sydenham - County

[sean]

What county does Sydenham come under ?

[Steve Grindlay]

Until 1889 Sydenham was in Kent, as was Deptford, New Cross and Brockley. The county boundary, between Kent and Surrey, followed the crest of Sydenham Hill to Crystal Palace Parade, where it meandered through Crystal Palace Park. In 1889 Sydenham, became part of the County of London, administered by the London County Council. In 1965 we became part of Greater London. For almost a thousand years, though, we were in Kent

[stuart]

But in more important matters, like cricket, are we still part of Kent?

Stuart

[danstevens]

i play tennis for sydenham tennis club and we play in the kent league. I've always thought this odd, but there you go. As a result we are perceived as being in kent by the opposition..

[Falkor]

I doubt all the football players in the English team are actually from England!

[Steve Grindlay]

But in more important matters, like cricket, are we still part of Kent?

Kent do play occasional county cricket at their Kangley Bridge Road ground, but that is in Beckenham which, for all I know, could still be in Kent. It does have a BR post code which means, at least as far as the Royal Mail is concerned, it is in Bromley, Kent. But we, in Sydenham SE26, are not.

[Falkor]

It does have a BR post code which means, at least as far as the Royal Mail is concerned, it is in Bromley, Kent.

It's interesting you mention that... I could be wrong but I don't think postcode towns have a county name attached to them anymore; I heard we are meant to omit the London/Kent/county part when writing out an address on an envelope, apparently advised by Royal Mail themselves. Postcodes aside, if you check the right hand side column of this Wikipedia entry, everything about Bromley points to London:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromley

[kennyb2]

On my birth certificate it says Bromley Kent
My mother lived in Downham, Kent
My father in Charlton, Kent


I later lived in Beckenham , Kent, quite near Kent House

what moved?

Bloody Ken Livingstone, is there no end to his territorial ambitions?

next you know it'll be Tonbridge Wells, SE 112

[mosy]

Just to note that for internet purchases, Sydenham is normally recognised in the "street" box, then:

London (town/city box)
London (county box)

so I guess for computerised databases, Sydenham is in London and London is in, er, London.

Well, yes, I know, but it is a handy tip to know. Learned from having to re-enter all data again because of having left the "county" box blank. Doh!

[user100]

You could probably put Timbuktu in those fields, as long as you have the first line of the adress and the postcode correct, and UK in the country field.

Royal Mail and courier companies use these fields pimarily, so whether you put Kent or London or Sydenham in the County field doesn't matter too much.

[Steve Grindlay]

I'm sure you're right, user100. People can decide for themselves where they live, provided the house number and post code are included.

I'm surprised that, given Falkor's <disdain for copyright law>, he is so fastidious about the laws relating to administrative boundaries (if I deigned to do smilies I would do one here). Granted, Bromley became a London Borough in 1965 (under an Act created by Harold MacMillan's government in 1963, so you can't blame Ken for that). Technically, therefore, Falkor is right; Bromley is part of Greater London, not Kent.

However, I have the impression that there are many in Bromley who still like to believe that they live in Kent, including shopkeepers, estate agents and those who cannot accept that their leafy suburb is actually in London. I have to admit that it was these people who led me to believe that Beckenham might still be in Kent.

[Falkor]

Boundaries is a difficult subject to get one's mind around. I see it like this: by picking any year past or present, it's possible to lookup the area of land known as Sydenham Town or London/Kent County, at any given time or period, through maps. These boundaries are always changing and it's out of our control. Historians, when researching a town, should take into account every road, street or space known to belong to that town--past or present--under the 3 systems of: parishes, borough wards, and postcodes. Ravensbourne Park in Catford now comes under Forest Hill by the Parish system, so certain residents out there who believe in God and are close to their church may decide that they live in Forest Hill. They are from the country currently known as England so are most likely atheists to Zeus, Ra and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I just choose to be an atheist to one God more than them. If somebody living nearby in Catford Road claimed to be living in Forest Hill, I wouldn't take them seriously. Likewise, historians researching London need to take into account that Sydenham and Bromley have been part of London for some decades now, so they have a bigger job on their hands, unless they choose to concentrate on the City Of London. I don't class names of Towns/Counties based on boundaries as being a law, but rather a label. [rant]You could call it a law, though I don't think it really has much of an effect on people, whereas copyright law, and many other silly rules out there, can ruin people's lives and independence. The government must think we are their slaves or something? I don't follow the rest of the herd.[/rant] Sydenham will always have an attachment to both Kent and London, so it really doesn't matter in my opinion. Maybe Kenny can explain what's troubling him?

[kennyb2]

Theres noting troubling me Falkor, it was meant to have an element of humour.
Like you I have a certain disdain for the workings of our "masters", so i always refer to my family as being of Kent, not the London borough of Bromley or where ever. I know what I think has a better ring to it.

Local area loyalties these days also smack of belonging to the "turf" mentality.

There is also the argument that Kent will always be Kent, as boroughs are more subject to the interferance of amateur politicans.
Counties tend to have geographical and historical boundaries, boroughs are political.

Down here in very rural Wiltshire, anyone from east of Reading is labelled "one o they cockernies", so I delight in informing them I was born on Bromley Common [in Kent then and now], they then tend to think Gypsey! not knowing the A21 you see .....

The joke is further on the locals as my pre Kent ancestory is more West Country than most of theirs, I love it when "you aint from round here are you?" comes from a "local" called O'Reilly or Macdonald.
None of it to be taken seriously, just something in which to savour the inherent and oft unintentional humour.


As for being govt slaves, well yes we are all in chains, the system has seen to that, financial chains are harder to break than steel ones; and most folk have put the chains on themselves and locked them and the system has got all of us shopping at the company store.But thats a rant for another day.