Night of Mediumship & Clairvoyance

[MindBodySoulFair]

Utopia Crystals Events Presents a night of Mediumship & Clairvoyance
@The Golden Lion pub, Sydenham Rd, SE26 5JX
Sunday 7th of September 2014

1st Medium 5:30pm - 6:30pm (Graham Watson) Professional & International Medium
http://www.mediumgrahamwatson.co.uk

2nd Medium 6:45pm - 7:45pm (Mariea Rudenko) Professional &International Medium
http://www.mariearudenko-healingmedium.com

1 to 1 Readings available for a small fee 8:00pm - 10:15pm with Graham or Mariea.

£7 Entry - Free Crystal tumble stone & one free raffle ticket
Function Room Doors Open at 5pm
"Limited Spaces!" only 50 seats available.
Tickets available from The Golden Lion pub, Contact no. 02087786859 or Contact the host Harriet on 07790804286
or email me hpress@hotmail.co.uk for more info

[SepticSkeptic]

Grim grim grim.

Deluded or dangerous con artists?

[14BradfordRoad]

This post has been on here for 2 days and no one has done the: 'Due to unforseen
circumstances' gag. It's kind of hard to resist but I have done till now!

Sunday 7th September 2014.

[SepticSkeptic]

Aye, but they'd be expecting that.

[hairybuddha]

From http://www.mediumgrahamwatson.co.uk

Medium and Mediumship: I am able to tune into the psychic energy of loved ones who have "crossed over." I work with numerous grief support groups and I find this work to be very valuable in the grieving and healing process. I am also able to communicate with those who have departed to the spirit world and help clients work through unfinished issues with their loved ones who have passed on. For many years, in fact since I was 5, I have been able to see and talk to people who have passed over to the spirit world, which is called being a medium

From http://www.mariearudenko-healingmedium.com/

Mental Mediumship

The Spirit world communicates through the mind of a Medium by impressing upon his or her mind the evidence of the spirit survival after physical death.

This type of mediumship is demonstrated in the following ways;

• Clairvoyance or Clear Seeing - the Medium sees the spirit person and can describe them.

• Clairaudience or Clear Hearing - the Medium hears the spirit and can relay the information given to them.

•Clairsentience or Clear Feeling - the Medium feels the presence of the spirit.

Many Mediums use all three methods blending together to give the best evidence that the information is coming from the spirit world.

Complete and utter schysters. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

[mosy]

I like to keep an open mind.

A true anecdote: As a mid-teen, three of us did a ouija board (a-z yes/no & upturned glass each of us placing a finger on it simultaneously). The glass did move. After a while the other two got bored and left the room. I asked further questions and the glass moved in response, so either something was pushing it or I have kinetic powers, or ? whatever. It put the wind up me and I've never dared do another as if spirits are around in a different dimension who is to say if they are good or mischievous.

For some people "spiritual healing" is like therapy (assuming it's not bleeding people dry money-wise). Mediums and fortune tellers are only allowed to give comforting messages or more particularly are not allowed to say anything that might upset a person, as that might cause knock-on adverse consequences. On that basis, any "news" can only be good so where is the harm if it sets people's minds at rest?

[hairybuddha]

The glass didn't move because of anything super natural mosy. There's open minded and then there's credulous buffoon. And then there's desperate grieving relative who is being taking advantage of.

For some people "spiritual healing" is like therapy (assuming it's not bleeding people dry money-wise). Mediums and fortune tellers are only allowed to give comforting messages or more particularly are not allowed to say anything that might upset a person, as that might cause knock-on adverse consequences. On that basis, any "news" can only be good so where is the harm if it sets people's minds at rest?

Not when the medium is claiming " I am able to tune into the psychic energy of loved ones who have "crossed over." " I am also able to communicate with those who have departed to the spirit world and help clients work through unfinished issues with their loved ones who have passed on." No you are not. You are snake oil salesman.

By all means, call it entertainment. But these "mediums" are claiming supernatural powers and fleecing vulnerable people. Admin should remove the post.

[Robin Orton]

Admin should remove the post.

Couldn't agree more. The Chinese have the right idea. Try opening a thread called 'Falun Gong' or 'Tiananmen Square' on an internet neighbourhood forum in a suburb of Beijing. BANG! BANG!

[mosy]

The event itself @ £7 is not exactly fleecing people so hardly a reason in itself for the "flyer" event in Sydenham for 7 Sept to be taken down. No-one is being forced to believe in snake oil as you put it. If people get drawn into to paying £lots after that, eyes wide open or shut, it's a different issue. I imagine many attend from curiosity and do regard it as entertainment only.

Surely to take it down would put us more into the realm of oppression? Well three cheers for that

[14BradfordRoad]

Admin should remove the post.

Couldn't agree more. The Chinese have the right idea. Try opening a thread called 'Falun Gong' or 'Tiananmen Square' on an internet neighbourhood forum in a suburb of Beijing. BANG! BANG!

I thought we were (rightly or wrongly?) becoming more tolerant as a society. Maybe
we're not!

Got the below from Wiki:
Many Chinese people today consider that it is possible to contact the spirits of their
ancestors through a medium, and that the ancestor can help their descendants if
properly respected and rewarded. The annual ghost festival is celebrated by Chinese
around the world. On this day ghosts and spirits, including those of the deceased
ancestors, come out from the lower realm. Ghosts are described in classical Chinese
texts, and continue to be depicted in modern literature and movies.

As for myself, I'm trying to be one of the more open minded ones, not for or against:
He who sits on the fence has more chance to see both sides (Chinese proverb possibly?)..

[hairybuddha]

The event itself @ £7 is not exactly fleecing people so hardly a reason in itself for the "flyer" event in Sydenham for 7 Sept to be taken down. No-one is being forced to believe in snake oil as you put it. If people get drawn into to paying £lots after that, eyes wide open or shut, it's a different issue. I imagine many attend from curiosity and do regard it as entertainment only.

Then the entertainers should be made to say so. They are making claims of superpowers and using those claims to make money. It is fraud, pure and simple. This is no cultural drift towards intolerance. Fraud is already illegal.

[Tim Lund]

The event itself @ £7 is not exactly fleecing people so hardly a reason in itself for the "flyer" event in Sydenham for 7 Sept to be taken down. No-one is being forced to believe in snake oil as you put it. If people get drawn into to paying £lots after that, eyes wide open or shut, it's a different issue. I imagine many attend from curiosity and do regard it as entertainment only.

Then the entertainers should be made to say so. They are making claims of superpowers and using those claims to make money. It is fraud, pure and simple. This is no cultural drift towards intolerance. Fraud is already illegal.

I just googled 'clairvoyant fraud prosecution' and found this case

Helen Duncan

the last the person to be imprisoned under the British Witchcraft Act of 1735. Maybe that's still an option - or has that law been repealed thanks to misguided multicultural, liberal, 'inclusiveness'?

[14BradfordRoad]

Then the entertainers should be made to say so. They are making claims of superpowers
and using those claims to make money. It is fraud, pure and simple. This is no cultural drift towards intolerance. Fraud is already illegal.

There are many who believe that most religions are based on fraudulance, either in fact
or deed. Some of these religions are definitely financially supported too. We could easily
open a can of worms here if we choose to dismiss anothers personal beliefs, a tolerant
society wouldn't do that (as so very often pointed out on here).

Where would it all start and more importantly where would it all end? Doubt the law would
be very interested in a Psychic evening at the Golden Lion. No one is being forced to attend!

[mosy]

"Then the entertainers should be made to say so" - quote by hairybuddha.

That's a fair point -TV programmes have to state that it is to be regarded as entertainment only (or is that just the US? I can't remember which progs as they tend to be on at the crack of dawn).

It'd be hard to prove fraud as no-one could possibly test/prove what another can "see" or hear etc I'll stand corrected if they can (either seer or negative prover).

There have been tests on faith healers, the "hands-on" sort, apparently showing an aura around which is much more pronounced than ordinary people. That was ages ago - I must look up any new stuff. I did wonder if they just had a high metabolic rate (i.e. hot hands) so acted like a form of a Deep Heat rubbing ointment. I don't diss panaceas though- mind over matter an' all that - if you genuinely think something's doing you good, it probably is (within obvious medical constraints).

Surely witchcraft and wizardry of the stoning, drowning, and hanging sort presumed malintent? None is intended here. (Possible eventual fleecing as I've said is a different issue.)

[mosy]

...[clip]...

As for myself, I'm trying to be one of the more open minded ones, not for or against:
He who sits on the fence has more chance to see both sides (Chinese proverb possibly?)..

Yay, I'm with that Internet slang is usually spikes in bum

I'd rather have spikes and view both sides in some things. We know that a portion of our brains are not used (or have fallen into disuse), that our heart does rule our head etc (*). Who am I to say what some people can or can't do?

Edit: (*) = some research seems to show that the heart knows things first and tells the brain rather than the other way around.

[admin]

By all means, call it entertainment. But these "mediums" are claiming supernatural powers and fleecing vulnerable people. Admin should remove the post.

Nope. There are people who believe in this stuff and they are entitled to know about these events. And then there is your right to say phoooey.

It isn't illegal. And am I supposed to draw the line somewhere between this and Christmas carol services or political rallies? I think it better you moan at me than I do the deed.

For the record I think Mediumship a load of phoooey too.

Admin

[hairybuddha]

There are many who believe that most religions are based on fraudulance, either in fact
or deed. Some of these religions are definitely financially supported too. We could easily
open a can of worms here if we choose to dismiss anothers personal beliefs, a tolerant
society wouldn't do that (as so very often pointed out on here).

Where would it all start and more importantly where would it all end? Doubt the law would
be very interested in a Psychic evening at the Golden Lion. No one is being forced to attend!

The "strawman" and the "thin end of the wedge" arguments in one comment. Congrats!

There have been tests on faith healers, the "hands-on" sort, apparently showing an aura around which is much more pronounced than ordinary people. That was ages ago - I must look up any new stuff. I did wonder if they just had a high metabolic rate (i.e. hot hands) so acted like a form of a Deep Heat rubbing ointment. I don't diss panaceas though- mind over matter an' all that - if you genuinely think something's doing you good, it probably is (within obvious medical constraints).

There is a big difference between someone experiencing a placebo effect following a nice massage and someone claiming to be able to communicate with dead people and charging for the privilege.

[mosy]

Please explain this "big difference" if I were to come away from either event happier?

[hairybuddha]

The difference is moral. Clairvoyants are claiming to be able to contact the dead. Any rational person can see this is nonsense. They are offering comfort to grieving and vulnerable people on a false premise in exchange for money.

Being deceived about your dead relative is clearly worse than being deceived about why your thigh feels better.

[14BradfordRoad]

Please explain this "big difference" if I were to come away from either event happier?

Mosy, there is a big difference to HB. He doesn't agree with mediums charging for
a psychic event. That's about the strength of it really!
I'm not personally that bothered either way, like yourself neither a believer nor a
disbeliever, but do however recognise that people do have the right to believe in
whatever they wish and pay for the priviledge of their belief if they choose to.

I don't mind being deemed a "Strawman" if it keeps the peace, a small price to pay.
You're right about sitting on the fence and spikes!