fatal stabbing in Wells Park Road.

[parker]

Yes Lee, you're completely right. Sorry.
At the time of posting I was a little shaken up about what was going on and came on here to find out what exactly happened and just vented my frustration here...

[leenewham]

No problem Parker, I agree that this is a terrible event. I didn't want other things to be dragged into the fray and be blamed for, what is an act of, utter stupidity and malice that has taken a life and ruined the lives of the victims family and the families of the attackers.

But how do we stop it happening again. Perhaps it's something we need to discuss, perhaps with some clever or innovative ideas to help solve it or suggestions for why it has happened a number of times in and around SE (and all of) London over the last 10 years?

[Annie.]

I thought having the youth centre would help to stop this kind of thing?
If not then perhaps the £s should have been spent on something that would help.

[marymck]

So, the youth are given a nice new state of the art youth centre, and this is the outcome?

"The Youth Centre is closed at the weekends."

Condolences to the family and friends of James (Yardz) who I met for the first time yesterday strangely enough.

not according to this web page, or was it changed? If so why?




Tags: London | Wells Park Youth Facility
Main Contact:

Elaine Smith

Phone:

0208 3149602

Email:

elaine.smith@lewisham.gov.uk



In South East London, 13 to 19 year olds in Sydenham, Forest Hill and Bellingham can look forward to benefitting from the £3.5 million myplace grant awarded to the London Borough of Lewisham for the Wells Park Youth Facility project. The centre to be based in Sydenham will open from 9.00am until 10.00pm seven days a week providing a modern, safe place that local young people will have a main role in developing and running.

A whole range of facilities will be on offer including a training kitchen, recording studio, youth theatre and dance studio as well as activities such as horticulture, skateboarding and graffiti art. Along with having fun young people will be able to seek help and advice at the centre on issues such as finance, substance misuse, sexual health and housing. Partners to help deliver the project include the Rio Ferdinand Foundation and the Stephen Lawrence Centre.

Sir Steve Bullock, Mayor of Lewisham, said: "This is absolutely wonderful news. Young people need exciting places where they can just be themselves and safe places where they can access support and grasp opportunities; places where we can offer positive challenges, places that say ‘you are important, we care'.We are very lucky in Lewisham to have young people who are committed and dedicated to strengthening their communities. The fact that they worked so hard with the Council to produce a successful bid is testament to that. We are very proud of them and cannot wait to see what will be a state-of-the-art youth facility up and running in Sydenham."

This youth-led project will benefit young people aged 13-19 in Bellingham, Sydenham and Forest Hill, particularly young people with disabilities, teenage parents, homeless young people, those at risk of crime and young carers. A training kitchen, recording studio, IT, youth theatre, horticulture, skateboarding, graffiti art and dance will be available along with advice services on sexual health, housing, substance misuse and finance. The centre will be open from 9.00am to 10.00pm, seven days a week.

For more information click here.[/quote]



When you follow the link to Lewisham's webpage and click on "for further info click here", you get a message saying the page doesn't exist.

I realize we don't know the causes of this horrific crime, so this is a side issue, but it's insane for the TNG to be closed at the times it would be of most benefit. It seems like Sydenham's youngsters are being badly let down. You can have the most innovative, award winning building on the planet, but if it's sitting empty it's just an expensive white elephant.

[Tim Lund]

No problem Parker, I agree that this is a terrible event. I didn't want other things to be dragged into the fray and be blamed for, what is an act of, utter stupidity and malice that has taken a life and ruined the lives of the victims family and the families of the attackers.

But how do we stop it happening again. Perhaps it's something we need to discuss, perhaps with some clever or innovative ideas to help solve it or suggestions for why it has happened a number of times in and around SE (and all of) London over the last 10 years?

Lee is right. It's not good to drag other things into this, when the immediate focus should be on who was responsible for this crime, and sympathy for friends and family of the young man who died.

But he is also right to ask how we stop it happening again. And sydeman is also right:

Its a very naive point of view that you solely assume that the police are responsible for everything! Nothing about society in general, poverty, drugs, etc? What do you propose, we live in a police state where everything is controlled by them? What difference does a police station in the vicinity mean that all crime will then magically disappear?

There is such a thing as society, and if anyone needs motivation to think about sociology seriously, ask what makes the difference to the chances of young people, otherwise much the same, dying like this or going forward to have decent, fulfilling lives. That's part of what I was getting at when I started the thread 'Ranking societies'; you can say there is something wrong with a society dominated by poverty and drug abuse, and one way of backing up that statement is to look at the numbers - how many young lives are needlessly lost? OTOH, looking at numbers should help us keep this in proportion. So MWAV is also right:

There have been 3 stabbings and 2 shootings since i have been here (10 years), I've never been threatened or had any problems with any of the 'youngers'. I have no worries about living here.

There are parts of the world which are far scarier than here, and actually London is much safer than it was.

But I sympathise also with Annie:

I'm surprised, I would have thought the weekend was the time [the TNG youth centre] was most needed? What's the point of having it open on school nights and shut when the youth of the area have nothing to do? ie Sat, Sun.?

It was initially open at weekend eves but the numbers attending were very, very low. I can't remember when I last saw it open on a Sat eve tbh

This isn't relevant to the immediate tragedy, but it is a fair question to ask - do we spend public money effectively when trying to address social issues in this way? I doubt if we have the numbers we need to answer that, but I have wondered about how well used the facilities are there. The last time I walked passed I saw a nice new outdoors games area, but with no-one using it, in contrast to the poorly maintained tennis courts in my local park, which do get used, if not for tennis then some informal cross between football and volleyball. I would love to see footfall data on such facilities, to establish where they get best used. Thanks to so many of us carrying around mobile phones, the data is out there, but jealously guarded by Vodafone, Virgin, O2 and the like.

Instead, where money gets spent depends on rather less objective criteria, such as whether it will generate good photo ops for local politicians, or win prestigious awards for the professionals involved. This is what I wrote back in February on the thread Star Architects

the first I ever heard about the architecture industry shindig, MIPIM, was in an informal conversation with one of the architects of the TNG building; on a strictly confidential, middle-class professional to fellow middle-class professional basis, I got the impression that for him this was more about boosting his reputation there than helping young people in Sydenham. Why should he not? How was he to know I was a class traitor?

Well, I was at a meeting in the TNG recently, and it's an impressive looking building, and I could see through to another room where some kids were relaxing, socialising, playing cards. I thought that was really nice - not the social isolation of some computer games. But how much did it cost? Could the money not have been better spent on improvements to the physical structure of existing premises in Sydenham Road and Kirkdale, creating spaces where young and old could easily and informally spend time, together or in groups with their own age groups as they wished?

I don't expect architects or anyone else not to want to have brilliant careers, but somehow our political structures don't help them help us.

And indeed they did get their award:

TNG wins RIBA award

[Tadpole]

It's made the Daily Mail too.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... treet.html

[Tim Lund]

Deleted - see below

[Annie.]

I'm confused Tim?

[Tim Lund]

I'm confused Tim?

I tweeted something to the architects involved, which, TBH, was unfair, and they took exception, so I took it down. They are also tweeting various points about how the success or otherwise of TNG is being monitored.

I think the suggestion I made about looking for footfall data as a measure of the social impact of projects could be very fruitful, and it would be nice if professionals with the resources followed it up. I doubt though if they will.

[Annie.]

Thanks for explaining Tim.

[Lizziespangles]

Just about to buy a house near Wells Park Rd! Returning to London after five years....must say I'm nervous as hell as I've two young sons...is this area really bad news???

[Tim Lund]

Just about to buy a house near Wells Park Rd! Returning to London after five years....must say I'm nervous as hell as I've two young sons...is this area really bad news???

I don't actually live that close, but I doubt if you need to worry. Just look at the overall crime stats, whch are not out of control, and enjoy London and Sydenham as all the rest of us do.

[Eagle]

I would agree with Tim. No area perfect , even Virginia Water , I am sure , has crime.

I am sure you will be OK

[Manwithaview1]

Just about to buy a house near Wells Park Rd! Returning to London after five years....must say I'm nervous as hell as I've two young sons...is this area really bad news???

The area hardly has any crime. Google Forest Hill Ward Crime figures for the evidence. I've lived here for almost 10 years, never been or felt threatened. Stabbings are UK wide by various races from here to Hereford.

[Manwithaview1]

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/ne ... 70585.html

Nearly a thousand young people were shot or stabbed in London last year, according to shock new figures released today.

The statistics from London’s ambulance service reveal paramedics were called to 973 victims under the age of 25 suffering a gun or knife wound in 2013.

Most of the injuries - 850 - were caused by knives, with 123 young people being shot. The majority of cases are believed to be linked to gangs.

Makes perfect sense for Boris to cease funding for various anti-knife crime groups.

So when one looks at sydenham crime you'll see that a few crimes out of 973 is miniscule, obviously one is too many...

[MiniFox]

Just about to buy a house near Wells Park Rd! Returning to London after five years....must say I'm nervous as hell as I've two young sons...is this area really bad news???

Hi Lizzie

I lived in Sydenham for 11 years until recently and loved it. If I could have stayed in the area, I would have done. In the end we moved to be closer to family, but I miss many things about Sydenham. It's friendly, with real community spirit and great services and amenities on your doorstep. In 11 years I never experienced anything that made me feel unsafe. Irritated, yes, but never threatened.

I didn't live that near this road but my GP surgery was on Wells park road and I visited there often.
As many people have mentioned, this is a dreadful tragedy, but sadly one that could and does happen anywhere and everywhere.

All the best with your move.

[JMLF]

Hey lizzy,
I live about a short road away from the incident and walk through the roads where it occurred regularly to take the bus or get to the lovely wells park. I've only lived in the area for 3.5 months or so and never felt uneasy and on the contrary have found it the friendliest place I've lived in regards to shopkeepers and local events. As echoed by others, unfortunately these things happen everywhere and this one, not to take it out of context as no death should be compared against others, happens to be more high profile secondary to the age of those involved/?"gang" related, witnesses and attempted life-saving care. Therefore it's understandable the larger impact it may have on people in the area even if overall the area is on a par or safer then the majority of london.

[NawhalPA]

I also live in the Wells Park estate. This is a horrible tragedy and looking at the numbers of community members and young people gathered at the site this afternoon its clear that this murder has deeply upset everyone in the area. If nothing else this speaks to how rare and shocking this type of crime is. By contrast I used to live in Washington DC where shootings and murders were both common and never seemed to provoke a great deal of reaction.
I've lived here for a year and never felt personally worried or threatened. I have a young daughter and rather than alienating, I've found the estate and park incredibly child friendly and welcoming.
That said, I'm aware the fears and dangers faced by our youth are totally different. The anger we should all feel is that our children, young neighbours and young citizens should walk around terrified of being targeted, of leaving one postcode for another, of risking death by being in the wrong place while the rest of us live blithely unaware. We should be fully funding anti knife, anti gang and young men engagement programmes as a priority, or whatever the evidence shows works, because every young life wasted or lost is a terrible indictment of who we are, and what we care about as a society.

[Manwithaview1]

We also need to cancel out the nonsense of stabbing someone to gain a reputation. I mean how pathetic.

James was one of the nicest young men in the area and the fact he stepped in to save someone and died for it shows the whole sadness and stupidity of the whole attack.

Hopefully a legacy can rise from this sad and ridiculous attack.

[Lizziespangles]

Thank you so much for your lovely responses everyone. It is a terrible thing for poor 18 year old James, his family and the area. It could happen anywhere sadly. I'm really looking forward to moving & am sure we will be happy. Your posts really helped! It's a stressful time house buying especially with the prices soooo high. Fingers crossed.