I hope its okay to start a ‘fresh’ thread on this subject but I like the SEE3 branding.
Would it be an idea to start a web site which would be a ‘one stop place’ and represent all interesting local businesses, places to visit, regularly update all that’s happening here across Sydenham, Kirkdale and Forest Hill with good images, relevant details?
The web site could also introduce the area and how to get there because we have great transport links. Perhaps also include links to interesting businesses in neighbouring postcodes?
There could be a blog with suggested routes to take helping to create a destination place to visit and spend the day.
Include places like Sydenham and Dulwich Woods, Crystal Palace Park and hidden gems, off the beaten track, I can think of a few.
We could visit other locations in London and blog about these hopefully it could work vice versa.
I’m just trying to think of a relatively cost-free and and easily accessible way to help promote the area. The web site could be linked with social media, alongside STF to help it become interactive and an easy way for all to contribute ideas and feedback.
SEE3
Re: SEE3
Hi Joanne
Yes - it would be a good idea, but you'd not be the first to have had it. Posting it here with the subject "SEE3" is a clear indication that your idea has some relationship to the SEE3 project, which I'd say it does, since it's the sort of thing SEE3 might be expected to do. But it doesn't, so your post comes across as a snipe - possibly justified - at SEE3. But it would also have been worth thinking about whether what you can do is feasible, even if the performance of all involved with SEE3 was beyond all justifiable sniping. It would also be worth finding out about the success of other attempts to do something such as you propose independently. It's something I've thought about and in the distant past posted about, as has Dickp and Sean, with similar thoughts. Most recently, and most credibly, it's similar to what Admin has done on this site in his recent redesign.
Are all such efforts doomed to failure, until relegated to oblivion by Google eventually cracking the problem? I don't know, but to answer it, I'd first research where it might be working, rather than start with something which could easily go down hill from here. I'd say, based on my understanding of some economic theory, that the most likely way what you want could happen is as a project managed by a professional Town Centre manager, employed in the way suggested in the recent thread Syds vintage clothes shop closing
Yes - it would be a good idea, but you'd not be the first to have had it. Posting it here with the subject "SEE3" is a clear indication that your idea has some relationship to the SEE3 project, which I'd say it does, since it's the sort of thing SEE3 might be expected to do. But it doesn't, so your post comes across as a snipe - possibly justified - at SEE3. But it would also have been worth thinking about whether what you can do is feasible, even if the performance of all involved with SEE3 was beyond all justifiable sniping. It would also be worth finding out about the success of other attempts to do something such as you propose independently. It's something I've thought about and in the distant past posted about, as has Dickp and Sean, with similar thoughts. Most recently, and most credibly, it's similar to what Admin has done on this site in his recent redesign.
Are all such efforts doomed to failure, until relegated to oblivion by Google eventually cracking the problem? I don't know, but to answer it, I'd first research where it might be working, rather than start with something which could easily go down hill from here. I'd say, based on my understanding of some economic theory, that the most likely way what you want could happen is as a project managed by a professional Town Centre manager, employed in the way suggested in the recent thread Syds vintage clothes shop closing
Which AFAIK is a completely original idea, as far as any idea based on standard economic theory and experience in a related area can ever be original.professional Town Centre managers, with a financial interest in the Town Centre succeeding. That could be as a direct risk taker themselves, or more likely as a career professional who would be able to point to the success of Town Centres managed and either move onto better things, or negotiate a pay rise. In other words, something like the role an Estates Manager would have working for the Grovesnor Estate in Westminster or de Walden Estates in Marylebone.
Suitable candidates will probably be found working for Savills. The role of the Council should be to negotiate the contracts on which such professional companies operate, for terms of say 10 years - so much as the Council contracts with Glendale to manage parks and open spaces on a ten year cycle.
Re: SEE3
Hi Tim,
Thanks for your response and I value your considerations.
My reason for creating a new thread and headlining it as SEE3 was because as I mentioned I like the brand which has been created. I also think it’s important to build on what they have achieved rather start from scratch. Further to create a new thread which is not influenced by previous postings.
There is no snipe intended so will if you agree overlook your comment? I’d much prefer to try and convey my thoughts in a constructive way via STF, which I believe is a good medium, managed well.
I am aware that my idea is hardly novel and apologise if I have overlooked similar suggestions by other posters in the past- I may not have read?
Admin, whilst I enjoy what they have created here is still not what I have suggested and it cannot be really, it requires a new web site and a link to STF.
Or a further reason to headline my post as SEE3 was because I wondered if that web site could be used for the purpose I described.
My suggestion is simple which can often work the best. It does not involve councillors, bearocracy and certainly not economic theory Tim- that may be of use later. I suggest a simple web site which is accessible for everyone and all contributers are on an equal footing.
This is pretty easy to get off the ground is it not?
A simple, yet well designed, informative web site which is linked to social media with the aim to attract customers to our area?
I believe this is a good way to spend any available funds because will create a structure and foundation
Thanks for your response and I value your considerations.
My reason for creating a new thread and headlining it as SEE3 was because as I mentioned I like the brand which has been created. I also think it’s important to build on what they have achieved rather start from scratch. Further to create a new thread which is not influenced by previous postings.
There is no snipe intended so will if you agree overlook your comment? I’d much prefer to try and convey my thoughts in a constructive way via STF, which I believe is a good medium, managed well.
I am aware that my idea is hardly novel and apologise if I have overlooked similar suggestions by other posters in the past- I may not have read?
Admin, whilst I enjoy what they have created here is still not what I have suggested and it cannot be really, it requires a new web site and a link to STF.
Or a further reason to headline my post as SEE3 was because I wondered if that web site could be used for the purpose I described.
My suggestion is simple which can often work the best. It does not involve councillors, bearocracy and certainly not economic theory Tim- that may be of use later. I suggest a simple web site which is accessible for everyone and all contributers are on an equal footing.
This is pretty easy to get off the ground is it not?
A simple, yet well designed, informative web site which is linked to social media with the aim to attract customers to our area?
I believe this is a good way to spend any available funds because will create a structure and foundation
Re: SEE3
They tried to do this with the Sydenham Town centre website, but it's out of date and not suer friendly.
http://www.sydenhamtowncentre.com
Having a site to promote Sydenham is a good idea, but we have so many now that it really needs some people to sit down and work out how we make them work for the good of all.
By FAR the most used site is this one. To ignore that seems a little daft, so to work together in some way seems t make a lot of sense.
http://www.sydenhamtowncentre.com
Having a site to promote Sydenham is a good idea, but we have so many now that it really needs some people to sit down and work out how we make them work for the good of all.
By FAR the most used site is this one. To ignore that seems a little daft, so to work together in some way seems t make a lot of sense.
Re: SEE3
Lee who created this web site?
It’s not what I envisage but has the ingredients to be.
Or is there an opportunity to use SEE3 web site, since did I read somewhere here that SEE3 is being wound down?
In order to get something conducive up and running on the web does not take lots of meetings, it should have been the first step.
It’s not what I envisage but has the ingredients to be.
Or is there an opportunity to use SEE3 web site, since did I read somewhere here that SEE3 is being wound down?
In order to get something conducive up and running on the web does not take lots of meetings, it should have been the first step.
Re: SEE3
Hi Joanne
This web site was set up by Admin, although what brings people to it is the content provided by us as posters. But let's not underestimate what you say about it being "a good medium, managed well". It is indeed, and there's more to this than most people appreciate, because there's lots of really techie stuff in the background, fighting spammers. which is necessary but generally unremarked. Attempted rivals have foundered because they did not understand this.
The real issue is about local power - who controls what appears on line about Sydenahm, and so what defines what matters here? The reason I started posting actively on this Forum was because pressure was put upon me, when Chair of the Sydenham Society, to boycott it. Now, if there's one red line I have, it's censorship and free speech, and Admin's ability to withstand pressure to shut out those whose views upset the local Establishment is probably even more important for this site's success than his technical know-how.
So a typical alternative to this site starts with one or more local citizens, like you, sometimes media students, but all with some good ideas about how to construct a community web site, and who generally think they can do things better than Admin. At some point they will meet the local Establishment, and be encouraged to develop their site, and given all sorts of apparently useful contacts. Whether they realise it or not, part of the deal will always be "help us undermine the STF and allow us to shape what appears on line about Sydenham". But none have had the necessary skills, and those not realising they lack those skills have gone ahead, and produced dull, bland poorly managed sites such as SEE3, Sydenham Town Centre, SydSoc's, East London Lines, and probably some more I have now forgotten. But these sites persist, sometimes getting odds and ends of funding, because they can be pointed to as evidence of how our local Establishment really understand this internet thingy, and how the picture presented of Sydenham is almost excactly the one they want to convey - just sometimes not actually updated.
Lee says we need to have some people sit down and work out how we do things better, which is true up to a point, or more precisely after a point, that point being when our local Establishment give up trying to control the local media. Don't hold your breath, but do keep sharing your ideas here, and working on how best to communicate them.
This web site was set up by Admin, although what brings people to it is the content provided by us as posters. But let's not underestimate what you say about it being "a good medium, managed well". It is indeed, and there's more to this than most people appreciate, because there's lots of really techie stuff in the background, fighting spammers. which is necessary but generally unremarked. Attempted rivals have foundered because they did not understand this.
The real issue is about local power - who controls what appears on line about Sydenahm, and so what defines what matters here? The reason I started posting actively on this Forum was because pressure was put upon me, when Chair of the Sydenham Society, to boycott it. Now, if there's one red line I have, it's censorship and free speech, and Admin's ability to withstand pressure to shut out those whose views upset the local Establishment is probably even more important for this site's success than his technical know-how.
So a typical alternative to this site starts with one or more local citizens, like you, sometimes media students, but all with some good ideas about how to construct a community web site, and who generally think they can do things better than Admin. At some point they will meet the local Establishment, and be encouraged to develop their site, and given all sorts of apparently useful contacts. Whether they realise it or not, part of the deal will always be "help us undermine the STF and allow us to shape what appears on line about Sydenham". But none have had the necessary skills, and those not realising they lack those skills have gone ahead, and produced dull, bland poorly managed sites such as SEE3, Sydenham Town Centre, SydSoc's, East London Lines, and probably some more I have now forgotten. But these sites persist, sometimes getting odds and ends of funding, because they can be pointed to as evidence of how our local Establishment really understand this internet thingy, and how the picture presented of Sydenham is almost excactly the one they want to convey - just sometimes not actually updated.
Lee says we need to have some people sit down and work out how we do things better, which is true up to a point, or more precisely after a point, that point being when our local Establishment give up trying to control the local media. Don't hold your breath, but do keep sharing your ideas here, and working on how best to communicate them.
Last edited by Tim Lund on 20 May 2014 09:32, edited 1 time in total.
Re: SEE3
Different website Tim!
Re: SEE3
Tim Lund wrote:Hi Joanne
This web site was set up by Admin, although what brings people to it is the content provided by us as posters. But let's not underestimate what you say about it being "a good medium, managed well". It is indeed, and there's more to this than most people appreciate, because there's lots of really techie stuff in the background, fighting spammers. which is necessary but generally unremarked. Attempted rivals have foundered because they did not understand this.
The real issue is about local power - who controls what appears on line about Sydenahm, and so what defines what matters here? The reason I started posting actively on this Forum was because pressure was put upon me, when Chair of the Sydenham Society, to boycott it. Now, if there's one red line I have, it's censorship and free speech, and Admin's ability to withstand pressure to shut out those whose views upset the local Establishment is probably even more important for this site's success than his technical know-how.
So a typical alternative to this site starts with one or more local citizens, like you, sometimes media students, but all with some good ideas about how to construct a community web site, and who generally think they can do things better than Admin. At some point they will meet the local Establishment, and be encouraged to develop their site, and given all sorts of apparently useful contacts. Whether they realise it or not, part of the deal will always be "help us undermine the STF and allow us to shape what appears on line about Sydenham". But none have had the necessary skills, and those not realising they lack those skills have gone ahead, and produced dull, bland poorly managed sites such as SEE3, Sydenham Town Centre, SydSoc's, East London Lines, and probably some more I have now forgotten. But these sites persist, sometimes getting odds and ends of funding, because they can be pointed to as evidence of how our local Establishment really understand this internet thingy, and how the picture presented of Sydenham is almost excactly the one why want to convey - just sometimes not actully updated.
Lee says we need to have some people sit down and work out how we do things better, which is true up to a point, or more precisely after a point, that point being when our local Establishment give up trying to control the local media. Don't hold your breath, but do keep sharing your ideas here, and working on how best to communicate them.
Tim,
Can I first clarify if this web site was set up by admin?
http://www.sydenhamtowncentre.com/
I had not referred to this because until you mentioned had no awareness of its existence until you told me.
It looks good to me but has a lot more potential as does www.see3.co.ok and would be good to have a central point.
Neither achieves the purpose that I have described. I do not think that I can do better than Admin only offer additional suggestions. I certaintly do not underestimate the technicality involved and time to manage a forum like STF. It may have fewer posters than EDF but have you seen the lack of new postings plus monotony there?
This is not about having power Tim nor swamping us with heady statistics or non- proactive complications which appears sometimes to be your persuasion.- or meeting with the ‘Establishment’ and encouraged by what they have to say.
Possibly you are waiting for veg to grow on your allotments if we keep to simple terms then you could see some growth.
Re: SEE3
No, no connection at all. The site is currently dormant.art4 wrote:Can I first clarify if this web site was set up by admin?
http://www.sydenhamtowncentre.com/
There was a posting on a blog somewhere by its former webmaster on what it was meant to achieve and why it didn't. It is well worth reading if you can find an archive (the original was deleted). You need to read and understand that in order not to fall down the same holes as she did some of which are particular to SE26.
The site may come back to life soon. Rebuilt imaginatively it could be a great asset to Sydenham. And the policy of Sydenham Town is to enthusiastically support all websites working for Sydenham. It's not always easy!
Admin
Re: SEE3
Hi Joanne,
I agree with you.
you may find this interesting: http://sydenham.org.uk/forum/viewtopic. ... ect#p57462
The Crouch End Project is worth looking at.
Feasts Website in West Norwood is also worth looking at.
Town Talk do number of sites:
http://www.harrow.towntalk.co.uk
http://www.northharrow.towntalk.co.uk
Even just having a Facebook page for local businesses to use would be a good start:
https://www.facebook.com/inmuswellhill
Then there is Totally Locally, which I have reservations about (I believe branding should be bespoke and unique).
http://totally-locally.co.uk
Trattoria get the web, they use social media really well.
Unless there is a strong traders group, it's pointless. Unless you can demonstrate that there is a significant benefit to businesses, then it will probably fail. Unless the site is well managed, it will not succeed.
Put those in place and you have a chance.
There is also a case to put information on the web to attract new investors to the area, something I've been bleating on about for years to deaf ears with footfall, local demographics, rate and rent prices, testimonials. They do similar things for selling houses on the web (look at Rightmove or Zoopla for the info they have). Perhaps it even has Landlords details, planning guidance, local surveys, a directory of every business in the high street so people can se what we have and more importantly, what we don't.
I agree with you.
you may find this interesting: http://sydenham.org.uk/forum/viewtopic. ... ect#p57462
The Crouch End Project is worth looking at.
Feasts Website in West Norwood is also worth looking at.
Town Talk do number of sites:
http://www.harrow.towntalk.co.uk
http://www.northharrow.towntalk.co.uk
Even just having a Facebook page for local businesses to use would be a good start:
https://www.facebook.com/inmuswellhill
Then there is Totally Locally, which I have reservations about (I believe branding should be bespoke and unique).
http://totally-locally.co.uk
Trattoria get the web, they use social media really well.
Unless there is a strong traders group, it's pointless. Unless you can demonstrate that there is a significant benefit to businesses, then it will probably fail. Unless the site is well managed, it will not succeed.
Put those in place and you have a chance.
There is also a case to put information on the web to attract new investors to the area, something I've been bleating on about for years to deaf ears with footfall, local demographics, rate and rent prices, testimonials. They do similar things for selling houses on the web (look at Rightmove or Zoopla for the info they have). Perhaps it even has Landlords details, planning guidance, local surveys, a directory of every business in the high street so people can se what we have and more importantly, what we don't.
Re: SEE3
And don't forget: http://www.sydenham.towntalk.co.uk/ which was originally sponsored by Lewisham using EU money. I think that relationship ended some time ago hence http://www.sydenhamtowncentre.com/ was financed to fill the gap.leenewham wrote:Town Talk do number of sites:
http://www.harrow.towntalk.co.uk
http://www.northharrow.towntalk.co.uk
[...].
Its been a while since I visited Sydenham TownTalk. I note they now have a Sydenham TownTalk Forum in case you need somewhere else to post.
Admin
Re: SEE3
I had forgotten about that! I met with Town Talk a few years ago (we designed the branding and websites for Harrow and North Harrow, Town Talk built them) and they mentioned the Sydenham one, but no-one seems to use it. A bit like the Sydenhamtowncentre one. I think there are too many sites.admin wrote:And don't forget: http://www.sydenham.towntalk.co.uk/leenewham wrote:Town Talk do number of sites:
http://www.harrow.towntalk.co.uk
http://www.northharrow.towntalk.co.uk
[...].
Its been a while since I visited Sydenham TownTalk. I note they now have a Sydenham TownTalk Forum in case you need somewhere else to post.
Admin
Re: SEE3
There can never be too many live sites. Only too many dead ones.leenewham wrote:I had forgotten about that! I met with Town Talk a few years ago (we designed the branding and websites for Harrow and North Harrow, Town Talk built them) and they mentioned the Sydenham one, but no-one seems to use it. A bit like the Sydenhamtowncentre one. I think there are too many sites.
The issue in Sydenham is the lack of co-operation between them. Its the internet and the clue is in the last three letters. I tried to talk to TownTalk (sic) but they didn't want to know. I think it their loss. Or maybe pursuing what is now a purely commercial enterprise as a community resource is fundamentally flawed?
There is much the rest of us could do to help each other and provide a better, more update and comprehensive service to SE26 at no extra cost. I try, but its a bit like herding cats.
Admin
Re: SEE3
The blog of blogs works, but I get only a few hits from it on the 3 local blogs we run. We get lots from post son forums.
It would be interesting to know what parts of this site get hits. It's rare people go past the first couple of pages.
It would be interesting to know what parts of this site get hits. It's rare people go past the first couple of pages.
Re: SEE3
BlogCentral was a way of trying to pull things together but there are fundamental problems when we don't talk to each other. I have often toyed with a Sydenham Portal but I'm sensitive to it being seen as a landgrab, not getting co-operation from the other major SE26 players and hence be added to the failed website heap.
The beauty of the cloud system is we can build castles in the air which each site can pull down and present in its own way to add value to each and every website. It also means the value of individual contributions rises and makes it more attractive to get more people creating information outside the columns of this particular forum.
Shared ownership is the key. Its quite popular in other circles!
Admin
The beauty of the cloud system is we can build castles in the air which each site can pull down and present in its own way to add value to each and every website. It also means the value of individual contributions rises and makes it more attractive to get more people creating information outside the columns of this particular forum.
Shared ownership is the key. Its quite popular in other circles!
Admin
Re: SEE3
I agree.
The various blogs we have all feed one another. The internet is about sharing. My blogs mention one another, posts go on various social media outlets. I'd love for more things to be featured on other outlets or have more mentions on SEE3 and the Sydenham Society site. We post on other forums and they all help drive traffic and get the news, projects, campaigns etc out there. Not everyone looks at everything.
There are lots of interesting info about Sydenham, out there. Perhaps it's worth all the bloggers, SEE3, ECO communities, Traders etc meeting to work out how we can work together for all our mutual benefit?
The various blogs we have all feed one another. The internet is about sharing. My blogs mention one another, posts go on various social media outlets. I'd love for more things to be featured on other outlets or have more mentions on SEE3 and the Sydenham Society site. We post on other forums and they all help drive traffic and get the news, projects, campaigns etc out there. Not everyone looks at everything.
There are lots of interesting info about Sydenham, out there. Perhaps it's worth all the bloggers, SEE3, ECO communities, Traders etc meeting to work out how we can work together for all our mutual benefit?
Re: SEE3
Call a meeting and I will be there. Or if SEE3 have budget left for beers - let them!leenewham wrote:There are lots of interesting info about Sydenham, out there. Perhaps it's worth all the bloggers, SEE3, ECO communities, Traders etc meeting to work out how we can work together for all our mutual benefit?
Admin