Sydenham Market - Saturday, 10th May

[leenewham]

A weekly market with regular stall holders that focused on fresh food (ie ingredients to add to the weekly shop) would be a good thing, and more likely to be supported by locals and to support other traders than the monthly model.

Banners and bunting are essential marketing tools and have the added advantage of giving Sydenham as a whole an identifier as a high street. When I am passing through other parts of London I always notice these sorts of banners. It help me identify the area and gives a positive impression of an area with its own local vibe and proactive local traders and organisations.

I agree Rachael. Nice to see some positive comments on here.

I think food is the way forward for Sydenham. It already has an excellent wholefoods shop, butchers, fishmonger, deli, a few supermarkets and PFC, a green grocers etc, not to mention a variety of cafes and places to eat including some exciting new developments including a bar and a bistro…and we have an ice cream parlour!

Creating a good mix of these to offer real choice, is, I believe showing a really positive future for Sydenham Road. Mixing it up a bit with a bit more aspiration to attract people onto the high street to spent their hard earned money would be good for all the shops here and may finally bring people here from other areas or those that don't even venture to Sydenham and go elsewhere. We have an advantage over Forest Hill in that our market is bang in the middle of the high street.

[jonathan_har]

Banners and bunting - yes!
Weekly market - yes!
Focused on food for the shopping basket, generally that is not already available on the High St - yes!
Augmented by take away food, craft stalls, children's entertainment etc - yes!

Small to begin with and in one location, with a core of carefully chosen regular stalls that can be relied upon to be there each week.

That's my wishlist!

[art4]

I like the idea of a weekly market in SE26 and banners and bunting (if it’s durable) would help a lot to advertise.
If there is a way that I can help publicise the market then I would be more than happy to do via social media and via our SE21 gallery.

Could someone let me know please if SEE3 are behind this and if their branding will be used? If so then happy to create a link on our web site. This isn’t up to date but will be soon and we achieve a lot of traffic.

Really I’d like to know more about SEE3 and if they are still operating, to hear about their plans. Are they still facilitating pop ups etc?

We don’t hear from the organisers (Louise?) on STF plus their web site is not up to date.

We need new shops, the rest apart from the market are add ons- although can be helpful- piano, supper evenings, nightclub etc. Graffiti I do not agree with at all. My concern is that a lot of positive energy, enthusiasm, involving lots of willing people can result in an inefficient use of time and resources with very little to show (sustainable) as the outcome.

Lee last week you asked me about my vision for Sydenham & Kirkdale. I was unable to answer because I have no clue about if SEE3 are in the process of planning things.

If I did know then I’d be in a more informed position to offer ideas.

Why I have said things can feel ‘forced’ is because we cannot force an artistic or say bohemian feel to our community because that is a natural process, led by artists which evolves organically. A piano, graffiti etc etc etc

It might not even be what SE26 needs anyway. A good solid strategy which will serve as the foundation will I suspect create smarter and more unique results. This includes that we don’t need to copy other places, what works for them might not translate well here.

However many contributing factors and or excuses there is a simple fact which is the pop ups in SE26 failed.
And a lot of this, I believe has to do with a facilitating team who lack experience.
This could be one of the key obstacles and if so requires consideration.

[art4]

If SEE3 do have a plan to develop SE26 high street further then would it be useful to hold an event at our gallery space to help advertise?

As you know we are in Dulwich Village but it could be an opportunity to increase publicity?

Here are some pictures of the space from this weekend’s Artists’ Open House. It’s around 1200sq ft. and above the Crown & Greyhound pub.

https://www.facebook.com/DulwichContemporaryArtGallery

I’m not sure exactly what we could do in terms of an event but I’d be able to invite our customer data base.

We will soon be closing the gallery- I think around end of July so only have until then. The reason being the pub will soon close for a massive refurb and includes a hotel.

Currently we are looking at various options to relocate.

[michael]

Why I have said things can feel ‘forced’ is because we cannot force an artistic or say bohemian feel to our community because that is a natural process, led by artists which evolves organically. A piano, graffiti etc etc etc

Leaving a piano in the street is one of the least forced actions one could imagine. Nobody is under any obligation to play a single note, or to play it well. There is a natural process by which the piano will be used or not. So far the piano at Forest Hill is proving quite popular among the talented pianists, children who have little never played a piano before, and many people (mainly young people) in between. And what is really nice is some of the nice messages that have been left on the piano (and on twitter) by visitors.

Getting a street market to work does take a lot of effort and it 'forces' people to change their shopping habits. Making such a change is hard work, which is why it is important to have the right stalls in the right places and on the right day. And some good weather always helps.

[art4]

Of course it’s forced; a piano didn’t just arrive on the street in FH.

But if it works then good.

Having a few pop ups in SE26 which are sustainable would also be good

Markets don’t force people to change their shopping habits they offer a different experience, different choices and support local start-ups/ traders. Plus may help boast existing traders.

If there is a puppet show then I’ll not be attending- not every place has to cater for children which Lee thinks it should

[Rachael]

Of course it’s forced; a piano didn’t just arrive on the street in FH.

But if it works then good.

Maybe this is a case of misunderstanding based on semantics. To me, saying something is 'forced' is a negative. Would it be more useful to describe things like the piano as an 'intervention'?

[leenewham]

If there is a puppet show then I’ll not be attending- not every place has to cater for children which Lee thinks it should

Er, I never said that Joanne. But catering for families and bringing them onto the high street can be a smart move where relevant. Many business in Sydenham recognise this.

Go to most shopping malls and you will find entertainment for families. High streets have a lot to learn from looking to other areas that are doing well.

[michael]

Of course it’s forced; a piano didn’t just arrive on the street in FH.

But if it works then good.

Markets don’t force people to change their shopping habits they offer a different experience, different choices and support local start-ups/ traders. Plus may help boast existing traders.

I think we have different understandings of 'forced'. The piano is an invitation to people, as is a market.
I have to make a point of not buying eggs, fish, and veg from Sainsburys, knowing that I can get better at the Horniman market every week. Nobody is really forcing me, but I am being invited to significantly change my shopping patterns (and I love it).
The hundred quid spent on the piano is not forcing anybody to play the recorder when they do their shopping as you implied. It is a small cost for an idea that may or may not work. It is a small gamble but one worth taking. And £100 is nothing compared to the cost of running markets, setting up pop-up shops, business training sessions, or the numerous other ways that SEE3 and the local community are working to reinvigorate the local high street and wider community.

If there is a puppet show then I’ll not be attending- not every place has to cater for children which Lee thinks it should

A puppet show may not attract you, but it does attract other people. As you have pointed out SEE3 has run a nightclub and supper clubs - most definitely not aimed at children. But other events such as Easter Bonnet parades are aimed at families. Once again your negative attitude trumps every good idea.

[Annie.]

I think inside most Adults there is a child who still likes to see a puppet show entertaining Children.

[Ruby]

I would definitely attend if there was entertainment such as a puppet show etc.
My children would want to go and see it and therefore we would browse around the market(without them being fed up and moaning), and probably go for a milkshake in one of the cafes as well.
A bouncy castle(not sure where it would go) would have them pestering me to go to the market!
If this was a regular thing then I think a lot of parents would set aside some time to go along!
There are not many attractions in Sydenham for children. Nearby areas have places to go at the weekends, such as, indoor soft play, Cafe's with decent play areas and offering good quality kids sized meals.

[art4]

I have been asled to offer positive ideas and when I do there is no reply.

SEE3 have nothing to say.for a very long period.


These people were trusted with public money and we don't hear from them.

[Rachael]

I have been asled to offer positive ideas and when I do there is no reply.

SEE3 have nothing to say.for a very long period.


These people were trusted with public money and we don't hear from them.

Have you contacted SEE3 directly? They don't generally post on this forum. I follow them on Twitter, they give quite a few updates there (last one just an hour ago!).

I've heard lots from people who have worked with SEE3 on various projects, there is plenty going on. I'm sure they would welcome your suggestions, although I would think using your gallery space in SE21 would be outside their remit.

[P1971]

art4 I posted my second post on this forum on a thread you created Artist, Feasability, SE26: Public Money, Graffiti Please check out my response. I think you might find in relation to this post that SE23 and SE26 don't need you to advertise them in your "As you know we are in Dulwich Village" gallery. If it's so great why are you closing down? Maybe you need SE23 and SE26 to advertise you!

Don't get me wrong, I'm always getting myself in trouble by speaking up and saying how I feel. My heart always rules my head when it comes to my shop and FH because I am so passionate about where I live and trade. I'm forever saying the wrong things, but just a little word of advice if you don't mind. Love where you live above where you work, especially if it's a bit pretentious!!!

[art4]

P1971- read your other post.

Rachael has pointed out that to use our gallery in SE21 may be outside SEE3 remit. It was just an idea with the intention to be supportive. There would be no cost and we have a good customer data base.

We are closing the gallery in a few months time to relocate. The reason for this as I've already mentioned is because the pub (gallery upstairs) will undergo a massive refurb so will need to close for a lengthy period.

[art4]

Have you contacted SEE3 directly? They don't generally post on this forum. I follow them on Twitter, they give quite a few updates there (last one just an hour ago!).

I've heard lots from people who have worked with SEE3 on various projects, there is plenty going on. I'm sure they would welcome your suggestions, although I would think using your gallery space in SE21 would be outside their remit.[/quote]


Thanks for the suggestion.

I may do.

My reasons for continuing to express my thoughts on the Forum are because I am well aware that I’ve been highly difficult at points around SEE3 but I do at the same time genuinely care about what happens on our high street.

I’ve not always expressed this well but do give this some thought and my views do change over time, at least require adjustment and I’ve just been trying to think of ways that I can contribute.

Using the SE21 gallery space could be an idea worth consideration?

It’s just down the road, there is no cost to use, an event if it was planned well may benefit from an existing customer data base.

Perhaps should not be governed by postcode?

I’ve struggled to understand some of what P1971 wrote. He/ she mentioned ‘pretentious’- this is not so important for me to mull over but I would never want to give the impression that we are, in fact it goes against the grain.

We happen through good chance and hard work to be located currently in an affluent area. Our main aim is to offer an accessible and supportive platform to local artists.

We could end up relocating to Penge High Street who knows!

I’m trying to be more constructive but am aware I ‘lapse’ still.

[michael]

My reasons for continuing to express my thoughts on the Forum are because I am well aware that I’ve been highly difficult at points around SEE3 but I do at the same time genuinely care about what happens on our high street.

I’ve not always expressed this well but do give this some thought and my views do change over time, at least require adjustment and I’ve just been trying to think of ways that I can contribute.

So open a shop in Sydenham rather than Penge. I'm sure that is the best way you can contribute. Please don't tell us that Penge (lovely high street that it has) fits your business better than Sydenham. I've also suggested a site in Forest Hill where you can share an existing gallery that has some space, I hope you have followed up that opportunity if you are looking for a suitable site for new gallery space.

I don't think you have expressed yourself at all well. Everything positive that is done by others is denigrated by you, usually with little justification:
Street piano - we are forcing people to play three blind mice
Puppet show - you will boycott the high street
Graffiti art - wrong for your gallery in Dulwich
And that's just a few of the comments this week that weren't so negative that you have removed them.

I think it is really important for SEE3 and others involved in the high street to hear honest feedback and learn how things can be done better, that is the point of a pilot project. However, your reaction to the regeneration of Sydenham could be better classed as trolling rather than honest feedback. It is no good saying:

I’m trying to be more constructive but am aware I ‘lapse’ still

Read your posts before you post them, if you feel that you have not met the standards you expect for your own comments, please don't make them. And don't seek to excuse your comments as a temporary lapse.

[art4]

I have tried to explain that sometimes my approach on this forum has not been helpful.

I truly apologise for this but there have been occasions too when I’ve conveyed fairly accurate observations. Please Michael don’t pick apart each sentence that I write because it’s unhelpful and when you cut and paste it can result in being misleading, comments risk being read out of context.

I doubt we’ll move from Dulwich Village to Penge but would not rule this out. Moving to Gloucestershire though could be a consideration, Sydenham another or to relocate somewhere else in Dulwich Village.

The risks to open a gallery in SE26 (include Penge) are high and I’m very inclined to agree with Lee that the type of art we sell is not suited to this location.

Michael where was the place in FH you suggested, sorry I must have missed your suggestion so as a result have not followed up?

Can I ask too, what Michael is your hands on experience of retailing, setting up shop? If you have ever committed to this then you’d know the types of risk which I am plus other potential traders will be weighing up.

Or are you one of those eager people who has to sit on every committee, feel omnipotent and offer wisdom but with out substance?

There has been a request by Mary and Lee on this forum that I offer positive ideas. Each are sensible posters and I have tried to take on board their advice.

If my ideas are no good, that’s okay, I’ll not mind but most likely think again.

[Tadpole]

Well I'm going to be out on a limb here, but I think it's expensive and way to much food. I'm a good cook and can make most of what they sell for a massive amount less, so the food side isn't of interest to me personally, and the craft things also seemed expensive for what they were. You can get a much better selection at larger markets for a lot less money.

I would like to see useful things for sale, for example; if I want to buy a pair of socks locally I have to go to Sainsburys or Next if they've opened yet but I doubt a stall would sell enough to cover the high fees for renting a pitch to make it worth while.

What about having a few very cheap stands for local people to try selling home made produce or crafts? there must be plenty of hidden talent locally (both young and old) who may well be put off having a go because of the cost or thinking they have to be a business. If they do well at one then they could have a stall at full price next time. Or maybe they could share a 1st time sellers stand? one go only type thing.

And I'm all for puppet shows or something along those lines for kids.

[Rachael]

Or are you one of those eager people who has to sit on every committee, feel omnipotent and offer wisdom but with out substance?

Your ideas could all be pure gold, but comments like that are what people will remember.