Thank you to everyone who has contacted us, it has been great to see more local work. We are looking forward to working with you at the Dulwich Artists’ Open House.
Unfortunately we are currently not accepting photography, so I apologise for not making this clear.
If we have not managed to get back to you yet please accept our apologies and we will do in due course. However this will only normally have to do with artists not submitting the correct requested information for consideration.
There is a forum member who has submitted work to us for a project last year and was unsuccessful. As I promised have kept his work in our library. He then received one of our updates and complained that we sent him spam. Our intention was to remove him but we had not on an artist data base. Therefore we received another rude email from him- he had just received an email invite to an event that was all.
If we thought that video art in this guy’s case held appeal in SE26, had a sale value then I would have taken a look. As I have mentioned in previous threads, what was the value of spending public funding on graffiti when we have a pretty high dose of that anyway?
Who are SEE3 to decide what art is? Have ideas turned into revenue? What has and is taking place?
What we did need is a few pop ups with popular products in SE26 which were sustainable, therefore could attract new business in but that failed.
Instead we are left with a weak monthly market, extremely poor organisation, visibility and marketing.
Who is accountable for this?
Artists, Feasibility, SE26: Public Money, Graffiti
Re: Artists, Feasibility, SE26: Public Money, Graffiti
Sorry, you are way off course with this.
How about contributing something positive Joanne rather than just criticising everything and anything?
How about contributing something positive Joanne rather than just criticising everything and anything?
Re: Artists, Feasibility, SE26: Public Money, Graffiti
Perhaps my logic lacks clarity in my post.
I was initially prompted following unnecessary rude emails from a forum member- an artist who approached us but their work was not suitable for our gallery. This has happened before- in a similar way, a forum member visited the gallery to show us work and again it was not suitable so they decided that we did not know what we were doing. There are in fact a handful of examples.
This does leave me feeling despondent once again about SE26- we have not generated this type of response elsewhere. On average we are approached by approx. 25 artists on a weekly basis and most of whom we turn down so there is plenty of scope for disappointment.
However my main point which I failed to convey well is this:
Art is a product and for both the artist and gallery to succeed (just like a shop) - requires being informed by the location and the consumer- what they want.
Of course there are other factors but our choice of art (the product) is not only about if we like it has a lot to do with broadness of appeal, knowing what we can sell in a particular location.
We would run a risky business for all involved if we offered art to only a niche market. After all we are a young gallery operating above a pub in an affluent location SE21 but with no shop front and trades once a week. Therefore we need to make well informed choices and work hard to attract visitors and sales.
If we don’t then we fail for the artists and jeopardize our business.
This has application to pop ups and one of the reasons these were unsustainable in SE26 was due to choice of products combined with extremely difficult trading locations in some cases. They stood little chance of surviving and that was easy to observe even before each opened.
Apart from causing disappointment or could be viewed as being set up for failure- it really ended up as a lost window of opportunity to inject some much needed energy into the high street.
It has certainly influenced whether or not I would open up shop in SE26 and I know of other small businesses or start-ups who share this opinion. Had the Portas Pilot worked then it would have laid down an encouraging foundation, a cluster of shops which could have attracted more businesses to the area. We have been left with no pop ups in SE26 and a market which has not capitalised on its potential after at least a year.
I was initially prompted following unnecessary rude emails from a forum member- an artist who approached us but their work was not suitable for our gallery. This has happened before- in a similar way, a forum member visited the gallery to show us work and again it was not suitable so they decided that we did not know what we were doing. There are in fact a handful of examples.
This does leave me feeling despondent once again about SE26- we have not generated this type of response elsewhere. On average we are approached by approx. 25 artists on a weekly basis and most of whom we turn down so there is plenty of scope for disappointment.
However my main point which I failed to convey well is this:
Art is a product and for both the artist and gallery to succeed (just like a shop) - requires being informed by the location and the consumer- what they want.
Of course there are other factors but our choice of art (the product) is not only about if we like it has a lot to do with broadness of appeal, knowing what we can sell in a particular location.
We would run a risky business for all involved if we offered art to only a niche market. After all we are a young gallery operating above a pub in an affluent location SE21 but with no shop front and trades once a week. Therefore we need to make well informed choices and work hard to attract visitors and sales.
If we don’t then we fail for the artists and jeopardize our business.
This has application to pop ups and one of the reasons these were unsustainable in SE26 was due to choice of products combined with extremely difficult trading locations in some cases. They stood little chance of surviving and that was easy to observe even before each opened.
Apart from causing disappointment or could be viewed as being set up for failure- it really ended up as a lost window of opportunity to inject some much needed energy into the high street.
It has certainly influenced whether or not I would open up shop in SE26 and I know of other small businesses or start-ups who share this opinion. Had the Portas Pilot worked then it would have laid down an encouraging foundation, a cluster of shops which could have attracted more businesses to the area. We have been left with no pop ups in SE26 and a market which has not capitalised on its potential after at least a year.
Re: Artists, Feasibility, SE26: Public Money, Graffiti
Or perhaps the shops that were done up and the relationships with the landlords created a network that has allowed potentially viable and exciting businesses the opportunity in the not too distant future to bloom on our high street, filling much needed gaps in Sydenham and Kirkdale's offer?.
Perhaps the pop ups also gave people the opportunity to trial their business with low risk and realise that they weren't ready for a full time shop at the moment.
Perhaps the pop ups also led to a highly successful shop opening in Forest Hill which has put down strong local roots (The Butchery).
Pop ups by their nature are transient. Some will fail and some will succeed. I'm sure everyone involved would agree that not every business or location was perfect, but AT LEAST THEY DID SOMETHING, TRIED IT AND IT'S LEAVING A GREAT LEGACY.
Forums are a great moaning shop (and we all do it), but also a great window to discuss ideas, share news, debate, get feedback and engage.
I'd like to ask Joanne what pop ups she would have brought to the area and what her vision is for Sydenham. What is Sydenham Road and Kirkdale High Street's future?
Perhaps the pop ups also gave people the opportunity to trial their business with low risk and realise that they weren't ready for a full time shop at the moment.
Perhaps the pop ups also led to a highly successful shop opening in Forest Hill which has put down strong local roots (The Butchery).
Pop ups by their nature are transient. Some will fail and some will succeed. I'm sure everyone involved would agree that not every business or location was perfect, but AT LEAST THEY DID SOMETHING, TRIED IT AND IT'S LEAVING A GREAT LEGACY.
Forums are a great moaning shop (and we all do it), but also a great window to discuss ideas, share news, debate, get feedback and engage.
I'd like to ask Joanne what pop ups she would have brought to the area and what her vision is for Sydenham. What is Sydenham Road and Kirkdale High Street's future?
Re: Artists, Feasibility, SE26: Public Money, Graffiti
As you know we did put forward a proposal but whether or not this would have worked is impossible to know.
However it was largely informed by our hands on experiences of setting up pop ups, galleries and shops in diverse locations. This gave us a good opportunity to gain insight: find out the risks, pitfalls and learn what does or not work and why.
Importantly we don’t outsource instead have the skills and knowledge plus a team which enables us to keep control of all steps of the process and is more cost efficient.
What I think needed to happen with the SEE3 project was to have a ‘strong’ pop up in a central location on SE26 high street. One which held broad appeal to the locals. But also a business which had a solid customer database which would have brought a new and different consumer to SE26.
However it was largely informed by our hands on experiences of setting up pop ups, galleries and shops in diverse locations. This gave us a good opportunity to gain insight: find out the risks, pitfalls and learn what does or not work and why.
Importantly we don’t outsource instead have the skills and knowledge plus a team which enables us to keep control of all steps of the process and is more cost efficient.
What I think needed to happen with the SEE3 project was to have a ‘strong’ pop up in a central location on SE26 high street. One which held broad appeal to the locals. But also a business which had a solid customer database which would have brought a new and different consumer to SE26.
Re: Artists, Feasibility, SE26: Public Money, Graffiti
Just like the Butchery in Forest Hill?
So what do you think the future is for Sydenham Road and Kirkdale High Street?
So what do you think the future is for Sydenham Road and Kirkdale High Street?
Re: Artists, Feasibility, SE26: Public Money, Graffiti
I'm curious,
Are pop up shops only allowed under the portas pilot scheme?
Or can the likes of Art4 start her own?
Are pop up shops only allowed under the portas pilot scheme?
Or can the likes of Art4 start her own?
Re: Artists, Feasibility, SE26: Public Money, Graffiti
The pop up concept has been around for a long time.
I think our first one was around 1996
Anyone can do.
I think our first one was around 1996
Anyone can do.
Re: Artists, Feasibility, SE26: Public Money, Graffiti
The reason I asked is, you seem to go on about the pop up schemes not having been successful, I just wondered why you didn't set up your own pop ups in Sydenham?
Re: Artists, Feasibility, SE26: Public Money, Graffiti
There are lots all over London:
http://www.londonpopups.com/p/maps.html
There is nothing stopping anyone doing it.
http://www.londonpopups.com/p/maps.html
There is nothing stopping anyone doing it.
Re: Artists, Feasibility, SE26: Public Money, Graffiti
I believe its important to examine why the pop ups in SE26 were not sustainable which was a key Portas Pilot vision and aim.
Constantly I consider opening a pop up in SE26 and recently again contacted the owners of vacant premises.
A couple of the reasons why I may not include:
- Risk which would be reduced had the Portas been a success
- Would need to adjust my product. We sell fine art to high end of market
Constantly I consider opening a pop up in SE26 and recently again contacted the owners of vacant premises.
A couple of the reasons why I may not include:
- Risk which would be reduced had the Portas been a success
- Would need to adjust my product. We sell fine art to high end of market
Re: Artists, Feasibility, SE26: Public Money, Graffiti
You give the impression that you think Sydenham is "lower" end market? If this is what you really think? Then why did you consider getting involved with the Pilots?
Re: Artists, Feasibility, SE26: Public Money, Graffiti
The aim of the SEE3 pop ups in Sydenham:
"The Shop Revolution aims to facilitate meanwhile use for empty shops, develop pop up shop opportunities and act as a springboard for new businesses looking to trial their business idea on a high street. We are currently focussing on Forest Hill, Kirkdale Village and Sydenham.
The aim is to renovate up to 12 empty shops for a pop up project which will generate a buzz in each of the town centres, and stimulate long term demand for retail properties."
Let's make it clear, I believe the following to be true: Most of the shops involved in the pop ups are now let or in the process of being let.
"The Shop Revolution aims to facilitate meanwhile use for empty shops, develop pop up shop opportunities and act as a springboard for new businesses looking to trial their business idea on a high street. We are currently focussing on Forest Hill, Kirkdale Village and Sydenham.
The aim is to renovate up to 12 empty shops for a pop up project which will generate a buzz in each of the town centres, and stimulate long term demand for retail properties."
Let's make it clear, I believe the following to be true: Most of the shops involved in the pop ups are now let or in the process of being let.
Re: Artists, Feasibility, SE26: Public Money, Graffiti
I thought that might be the case Lee, I am just confused whenever Art4 comes on here and intimates that they were a waste of time in Sydenham.
Re: Artists, Feasibility, SE26: Public Money, Graffiti
I don't think an high end gallery selling high end art is right for Sydenham, it doesn't matter whether the pilot project shops stayed or not. I don't see what has to do with SEE3.
See3 has it's issues, I'm not saying it's perfect (it certainly isn't), but it deserves support (and it needs to co-operate and listen) in order for it to make effective change. I'm not seeing that support from these posts Joanne.
I know that because of the pop ups and SEE3, some exiting new businesses are coming to Sydenham due to the EXTREMELY hard work going on behind the scenes.
You may not like the current show, but wait and see what's waiting in the wings…
See3 has it's issues, I'm not saying it's perfect (it certainly isn't), but it deserves support (and it needs to co-operate and listen) in order for it to make effective change. I'm not seeing that support from these posts Joanne.
I know that because of the pop ups and SEE3, some exiting new businesses are coming to Sydenham due to the EXTREMELY hard work going on behind the scenes.
You may not like the current show, but wait and see what's waiting in the wings…
Re: Artists, Feasibility, SE26: Public Money, Graffiti
I have not referred to SE26 being 'lower'- I live there so am just aware of the demographic. Therefore I would need to change the type of art we sell to suit location otherwise we would fail to deliver and not survive.Annie. wrote:You give the impression that you think Sydenham is "lower" end market? If this is what you really think? Then why did you consider getting involved with the Pilots?
Or take a punt invest in expensive marketing and try to create a destination gallery.That would be easier though to achieve if there were a cluster of destination shops so people further afield are inspired to make a trip to browse/shop/spend time in SE26
Re: Artists, Feasibility, SE26: Public Money, Graffiti
Quote
- Would need to adjust my product. We sell fine art to high end of market.
I didn't say you said SE26 was lower end market,
the quote above shows that you
Seem to give the impression that Sydenham is a
"Lower end market"
- Would need to adjust my product. We sell fine art to high end of market.
I didn't say you said SE26 was lower end market,
the quote above shows that you
Seem to give the impression that Sydenham is a
"Lower end market"
Re: Artists, Feasibility, SE26: Public Money, Graffiti
I believe that the Portas Pilot has been a success. Admittedly it has not transitioned the area into Knightsbridge or even East Dulwich, but it has provided a boost to the local area by;art4 wrote:- Risk which would be reduced had the Portas been a success
- Would need to adjust my product. We sell fine art to high end of market
- organising many events in the high streets - Easter parades, Halloween events, Christmas events, film weeks, valentine's week events, a street piano for Forest Hill - all bringing increased footfall to the high streets in the short term and hopefully in the long term too
- training to local businesses
- creating opportunities for pop-up shops - some of which continued and some didn't
- refurbished a number of empty units as pop-up shops which now have better potential for new businesses
- we* also have a team of people who are able to look for new funding opportunities - to bring in funding that can make a much bigger difference to the long term development of Forest Hill and Sydenham.
- at least nine empty shops brought back into use (either permanently or temporarily with opportunities for new businesses in the future)
- trying out markets across Forest Hill, Sydenham and Kirkdale. The legacy is a weekly market at Horniman and a monthly market run by Lewisham council in Sydenham.
Throughout the project Lewisham Council and the GLA have been keeping an eye on spending to ensure it is appropriate, and the SEE3 team have presented there achievements to other Portas teams (and other organisations) from across the country because SEE3 has been well run and achieved some positive results with limited budgets and time.
To be fair, some pop-ups and events have been more successful than others. That is why the pilot project was partially funded by the public purse rather than asking local business people to take all the risk themselves.
Other businesses have looked at Sydenham and Forest Hill and decided that with the work of SEE3 (coupled with the street improvements in Sydenham, the pool refurbishment in Forest Hill, and massive increase in train services since 2010), and have taken the risk to open new businesses. These are the real heroes of High Street - the people who find a business model that works in a new area.
* I say 'we' because for the last few months I have been sitting on the SEE3 committee and seeing how hard the volunteers and employees work for the organisation. I am proud to have been part of the initial team to request Lewisham support our bid to Portas, and more recently on the committee ensuring the success of our events and looking to the future of the high streets.
Re: Artists, Feasibility, SE26: Public Money, Graffiti
Not everyone goes to pound Plus though Rod!
Re: Artists, Feasibility, SE26: Public Money, Graffiti
And here's an opportunity for anybody wishing to join forces with an existing art gallery in the heart of Forest Hill, at DoopoDoopo. A great low-risk way to test out the market in the SEE3 area (and I know it isn't in Sydenham, sorry).
If anybody can think of anybody who would be suitable for such an opportunity, can I recommend contacting DoopoDoopo.
If anybody can think of anybody who would be suitable for such an opportunity, can I recommend contacting DoopoDoopo.
An email I just received wrote:A QUARTER OF THE GALLERY SPACE FOR RENT
BECOME A PART OF FOREST HILL ARTISTIC COMMUNITY
Become a part of Forest Hill artistic community by renting out a quarter of the prime located gallery space. The venue is just next to the Forest Hill station, in the middle of Forest Hill. It's airy and spacious and filled with local artists works. We also run a cinema club here and a number of different art related workshops. So if you think you could fit in - give us a shout.
Please contact us by email: info@doopodoopo.co.uk