To kick off, great to see a busy local forum with some serious discussion going on. I'm a new Sydenham resident - in fact new to the SE postcode! - and, well... nice to be here.
Listening to the Today Programme the other day I heard a Green candidate suggest that they had a chance of getting greater presentation within Lewisham West. He didn't suggest that they might win the seat, but only that the Greens could make an advance come May (he said the same of Brighton). I've done some investigation of my own and can't find anything to back up this claim. I've never been convinced of the Greens, mainly because of their single-issue approach. But increasingly I feel that the environment is becoming one of the most important issues of our generation.
I can't pin point my concerns - more a gut feeling fed by marginal stories from the "science community" in the papers. It barely registers in the maintstream beyond hand-wringing - all has a whiff of ostrich-ness to it. Yet I know that many of my friends and colleagues are increasingly tired of the dog-whistles blown by all the parties (tax, immigration, health) and are more concerned by the disturbing background white noise that everyone's doing so well to ignore.
Which brings me to this election. The environment hasn't even figured. Yet I want it to figure. So I look to the Greens to see what's available, and I also find out that the Lib Dems have some planks in their platform devoted to it (and also one on rural issues - another area close to my heart). But I'm singularly disappointed to hear so little from Labour so far. I'd never expect much from Conservative on the subject. And UKIP/BNP etc etc - well...
Anyway - your thoughts and a healthy discussion would be very useful (especially from any candidates who may be reading).
- Soulfood.
I'd hope this could be an opportunity for them to tell us a bit more about their policies.
Does going green mean going for Green?
Hi Soulfood and welcome to Sydenham!
Tired of the spin, I too have considered a green vote. However, I remain concerned about a distinct lack of substance to their policies. They seem to fear defining their stance (afraid of alienating existing voters no doubt). So I remain liking the "idea" of the party without being able to actually part with my vote. I have a distinct lack of trust in their ability to run government.
Tired of the spin, I too have considered a green vote. However, I remain concerned about a distinct lack of substance to their policies. They seem to fear defining their stance (afraid of alienating existing voters no doubt). So I remain liking the "idea" of the party without being able to actually part with my vote. I have a distinct lack of trust in their ability to run government.
Welcome to the forum soulfood and what a great post. I agree entirely with your sentiments.
I have been given some serious thought to where my vote is going to go on May 5th, and haven’t yet arrived at any conclusions.
The main thrust of the election campaigns of the three major parties (or at least the two main parties – Lib Dems don’t really have the presence to set the agenda) has completely failed to engage me.
I feel that the environment is the elephant in the room.
Like The Clown, I’m not entirely convinced by the Green Party: I certainly don’t think the could run the country. However, the chances of them being afforded that opportunity are so remote I hardly think it is worth considering. Therefore, I’m tempted to vote in for them on the basisof their general principals, as I think environmental issues need all the help they can get in moving up the agenda.
Labour’s image, and Blair’s in particular has become completely tarnished in my eyes. As much as anything else this seems to be down to the general sentiment in the media at the moment, rather than anything concrete I feel they’ve done wrong (with the exception of Iraq, but I doubt whether Iraq is going to be what sways my vote in the end).
However, at the local level, based on general impression, Jim Dowd appears to be very active in the community and doing a good job (I have only moved into this constituency recently). So whilst on the national level I’ve got very little desire to vote Labour again, on a local basis I’m much more inclined to do so. I'm finding it hard to find the balance of macro and micro, global and local, in deciding where to place one vote.
However, back to environment: I feel that the stranglehold that major multinationals have is such that individual national governments actually hold relatively little power to make bold changes. As such, we probably hold more influence as a consumer than a citizen: perhaps we need to be paying more attention to how we vote at the cash register than at the ballot box?
I have been given some serious thought to where my vote is going to go on May 5th, and haven’t yet arrived at any conclusions.
The main thrust of the election campaigns of the three major parties (or at least the two main parties – Lib Dems don’t really have the presence to set the agenda) has completely failed to engage me.
I feel that the environment is the elephant in the room.
Like The Clown, I’m not entirely convinced by the Green Party: I certainly don’t think the could run the country. However, the chances of them being afforded that opportunity are so remote I hardly think it is worth considering. Therefore, I’m tempted to vote in for them on the basisof their general principals, as I think environmental issues need all the help they can get in moving up the agenda.
Labour’s image, and Blair’s in particular has become completely tarnished in my eyes. As much as anything else this seems to be down to the general sentiment in the media at the moment, rather than anything concrete I feel they’ve done wrong (with the exception of Iraq, but I doubt whether Iraq is going to be what sways my vote in the end).
However, at the local level, based on general impression, Jim Dowd appears to be very active in the community and doing a good job (I have only moved into this constituency recently). So whilst on the national level I’ve got very little desire to vote Labour again, on a local basis I’m much more inclined to do so. I'm finding it hard to find the balance of macro and micro, global and local, in deciding where to place one vote.
However, back to environment: I feel that the stranglehold that major multinationals have is such that individual national governments actually hold relatively little power to make bold changes. As such, we probably hold more influence as a consumer than a citizen: perhaps we need to be paying more attention to how we vote at the cash register than at the ballot box?
Dear Soulfood and Weeble etc,
Firstly welcome Soulfood, always good to have new neighbours
I think that Lewisham is mentioned because the Greens main figurehead in life is Darren Johnson, whilst he isn't the party leader, he is the main person people know in terms of the Greens. Who has heard of Lord Beaumont of Whitley or Caroline Lucas MEP? who are 'supposed' to be the big hitters in the greens!
Darren is a Lewisham councillor and Green member on the Greater London Assembly, he gets a lot of his PR in London sniping at Ken Livingstone
You also said Brighton was mentioned? I would think that would be mentioned because Keith Taylor is one of their principle party members, who achieved nearly 10% of the votes for the Greens last time, I think it was the third best result ever, only beaten by Oxford and somewhere else that escapes me at the moment! Whilst I guess many people on here won't have heard of him, I'm sure people down in Brighton and Sussex will have, but again they won't have heard of Darren Johnson. I think they have a big local focus in small areas but don't hold that status nationally.
In regard to Local politics, Jim Dowd has been very active over the years on a Local level which is great, for more years than I care to remember he has not only supported but has been passionate about getting the East London Line project to the area, this will benefit people in Sydenham and Forest Hill in a massive way. He used to be on Lewisham Council so has been very much a local man for decades. Lewisham Hospital is getting this new block you can see being constructed if you go past on the train, it has over 400 new beds and opens next year, this is another great project for the area. We are blessed with great hospitals on our doorstep, Kings and Lewisham.
Lewisham Hospital also screens ALL patients who enter A&E for the MRSA superbug, very few hospitals embrace this policy yet. I know Mr Dowd was instramental with the trust to work on this, I read in the paper not so long ago that other hospitals are following Lewishams lead, as infection has dropped by nearly 30% since 2001.
The full story from Lewisham Hospitals website is here
http://www.uhl.ac.uk/showinsert.php?sto ... 0.mrsa.php
I'm sure if Jim remains as MP, his hard work with the council and local groups will continue to benefit the areas and its residents.
Firstly welcome Soulfood, always good to have new neighbours
I think that Lewisham is mentioned because the Greens main figurehead in life is Darren Johnson, whilst he isn't the party leader, he is the main person people know in terms of the Greens. Who has heard of Lord Beaumont of Whitley or Caroline Lucas MEP? who are 'supposed' to be the big hitters in the greens!
Darren is a Lewisham councillor and Green member on the Greater London Assembly, he gets a lot of his PR in London sniping at Ken Livingstone
You also said Brighton was mentioned? I would think that would be mentioned because Keith Taylor is one of their principle party members, who achieved nearly 10% of the votes for the Greens last time, I think it was the third best result ever, only beaten by Oxford and somewhere else that escapes me at the moment! Whilst I guess many people on here won't have heard of him, I'm sure people down in Brighton and Sussex will have, but again they won't have heard of Darren Johnson. I think they have a big local focus in small areas but don't hold that status nationally.
In regard to Local politics, Jim Dowd has been very active over the years on a Local level which is great, for more years than I care to remember he has not only supported but has been passionate about getting the East London Line project to the area, this will benefit people in Sydenham and Forest Hill in a massive way. He used to be on Lewisham Council so has been very much a local man for decades. Lewisham Hospital is getting this new block you can see being constructed if you go past on the train, it has over 400 new beds and opens next year, this is another great project for the area. We are blessed with great hospitals on our doorstep, Kings and Lewisham.
Lewisham Hospital also screens ALL patients who enter A&E for the MRSA superbug, very few hospitals embrace this policy yet. I know Mr Dowd was instramental with the trust to work on this, I read in the paper not so long ago that other hospitals are following Lewishams lead, as infection has dropped by nearly 30% since 2001.
The full story from Lewisham Hospitals website is here
http://www.uhl.ac.uk/showinsert.php?sto ... 0.mrsa.php
I'm sure if Jim remains as MP, his hard work with the council and local groups will continue to benefit the areas and its residents.
Help, I’m going on holiday so I have to send off my postal vote tomorrow and I still haven’t decided!
On balance, I would be very disappointed if Jim didn’t get in again, he does seem to be excellent on a local basis.
But on a National basis, I think I’d like to vote Green, purely because I think the general issues they stand for deserve greater representation, and I’m a bit disillusioned with Labour.
Do you think Lewisham West is a ‘safe’ enough Labour at the moment that we can afford to vote for minority parties with jeopardising the seat?
On balance, I would be very disappointed if Jim didn’t get in again, he does seem to be excellent on a local basis.
But on a National basis, I think I’d like to vote Green, purely because I think the general issues they stand for deserve greater representation, and I’m a bit disillusioned with Labour.
Do you think Lewisham West is a ‘safe’ enough Labour at the moment that we can afford to vote for minority parties with jeopardising the seat?
Weeble
You Jammy so and so! not because you have a postal vote, but because your going on holiday!
I don't think Lewisham West is safe enough, every vote is crucial. If there is any politician or perspective politician out there who thinks that then they deserve not to be elected by the people.
You have to use your vote how you see fit, but I suggest you base your vote on what Jim Dowd has done for our local area. Despite what might have been done nationally. If the country was in a good shape but Lewisham West was on its knees people would not vote for Jim, infact the area is in a great shape and will continue i'm sure if he were to be reelected. He delivered on the East London Line, Sydenham and FH town centres are getting better, FH is getting the new Sainsburys, more police and PCSO's are on the streets. These are all good things for the area. As they say, if it aint broke don't fix it. But without speaking for him, i'm sure he will say there is still so much to do, and if he got re-elected things would improve further. He seems to be that proactive and forward thinking.
If you want to stay at home and watch the election, i'm happy to take your holiday off you! A bit of sun now would be great!
You Jammy so and so! not because you have a postal vote, but because your going on holiday!
I don't think Lewisham West is safe enough, every vote is crucial. If there is any politician or perspective politician out there who thinks that then they deserve not to be elected by the people.
You have to use your vote how you see fit, but I suggest you base your vote on what Jim Dowd has done for our local area. Despite what might have been done nationally. If the country was in a good shape but Lewisham West was on its knees people would not vote for Jim, infact the area is in a great shape and will continue i'm sure if he were to be reelected. He delivered on the East London Line, Sydenham and FH town centres are getting better, FH is getting the new Sainsburys, more police and PCSO's are on the streets. These are all good things for the area. As they say, if it aint broke don't fix it. But without speaking for him, i'm sure he will say there is still so much to do, and if he got re-elected things would improve further. He seems to be that proactive and forward thinking.
If you want to stay at home and watch the election, i'm happy to take your holiday off you! A bit of sun now would be great!
All good replies. I'm very much with Weeble here. I like what I hear about Jim Dowd, but am disillusioned about the national labour party.
Unlike Weeble, got a few more days to mull it over though.
Against weeble's point about the consumer being stronger than the voter. I rally against that whenever I hear it. It's part of the modern trend to subvert/dissolve citizenship. (I contract in the government and am increasingly hearing about the "customer" instead of the "citizen"). But the customer can only choose from the market, regardless of how limited the options. As consumers, the market articulates and guides our chioces for us. So choice itself becomes cosmetic and superficial.
But as citizens government is meant to articulate our choices on our behalf. Also, the government is not teh impotent beast we are led to believe. It has the power to legislate, to enter international alliances, to despatch armed forces... These can all be performed in the name of the citizen - they're all methods through which citizens articulate will. At least that's the ancient theory. "They work for you" and all that...
Anyway - Chomsy says that we can't just blame the multinationals or the media. Largely through apathy we have, inch by inch, given up our citizenship and accepted our role as consumers. Is it too late to reverse that trend?
Unlike Weeble, got a few more days to mull it over though.
Against weeble's point about the consumer being stronger than the voter. I rally against that whenever I hear it. It's part of the modern trend to subvert/dissolve citizenship. (I contract in the government and am increasingly hearing about the "customer" instead of the "citizen"). But the customer can only choose from the market, regardless of how limited the options. As consumers, the market articulates and guides our chioces for us. So choice itself becomes cosmetic and superficial.
But as citizens government is meant to articulate our choices on our behalf. Also, the government is not teh impotent beast we are led to believe. It has the power to legislate, to enter international alliances, to despatch armed forces... These can all be performed in the name of the citizen - they're all methods through which citizens articulate will. At least that's the ancient theory. "They work for you" and all that...
Anyway - Chomsy says that we can't just blame the multinationals or the media. Largely through apathy we have, inch by inch, given up our citizenship and accepted our role as consumers. Is it too late to reverse that trend?
Soulfood
Jim has done wonders over the years to the area, it's a pity that because people fail to warm to TB that local democracy suffers. You very much vote for what is happening in your local area. FH & Sydenham are going through a real boom at the moment
FH pools (Its on the Sydenham boundry so i'm gonna list it
) is going out to consultation to either be demolished and rebuilt with a state of the art pools and dry facilities or the current building and facilities upgraded from the current Victorian pools.
The East London Line - confirmed coming to FH & Sydenham in 5 years
Sainsburys extension to FH store
You only have to look around at the Local area, schools and other facilities, if you think things have got better vote for Jim it was him and others that achieved that.
It was only a few years ago (well over a decade ago) that we were all moaning that Sydenham & FH needed investment, the tube and alike. These have been delivered and are continuing to be delivered. Its a slow process but much has been achieved with Mr. Dowd as our MP, it would be suicidal if that failed to continue.
Jim has done wonders over the years to the area, it's a pity that because people fail to warm to TB that local democracy suffers. You very much vote for what is happening in your local area. FH & Sydenham are going through a real boom at the moment
FH pools (Its on the Sydenham boundry so i'm gonna list it
) is going out to consultation to either be demolished and rebuilt with a state of the art pools and dry facilities or the current building and facilities upgraded from the current Victorian pools. The East London Line - confirmed coming to FH & Sydenham in 5 years
Sainsburys extension to FH store
You only have to look around at the Local area, schools and other facilities, if you think things have got better vote for Jim it was him and others that achieved that.
It was only a few years ago (well over a decade ago) that we were all moaning that Sydenham & FH needed investment, the tube and alike. These have been delivered and are continuing to be delivered. Its a slow process but much has been achieved with Mr. Dowd as our MP, it would be suicidal if that failed to continue.
Closer inspection of my postal vote reveals I can hand it to a polling station next Thursday, when I'll be back from holiday, so I will have a few days in the sun in which to ponder, phew!
Thanks for the interesting replies, adam and soulfood. One unexpected outcome of the completely uninspiring election campaigns has been I'm becoming much more interested in these kind of issues - because the election isn't coming to me, I've had to go out and search myself!
I wonder what proportion of people vote on the basis of local issues? I've always thought about the general election in wider terms. I guess this could be largely because I am young and idealistic, and have been fortunate enough to have made little call on the NHS, never been a victim of crime, or otherwise dependent on the state. Perhaps other people are more grounded in reality!
Thanks for the interesting replies, adam and soulfood. One unexpected outcome of the completely uninspiring election campaigns has been I'm becoming much more interested in these kind of issues - because the election isn't coming to me, I've had to go out and search myself!
I wonder what proportion of people vote on the basis of local issues? I've always thought about the general election in wider terms. I guess this could be largely because I am young and idealistic, and have been fortunate enough to have made little call on the NHS, never been a victim of crime, or otherwise dependent on the state. Perhaps other people are more grounded in reality!
I am glad to see that some people are considering voting Green. This will be the first time we have stood in the seat. West Lewisham is a safe Labour seat, so if people are concerned about climate change, Labour's weakening of the UN, the illegal war in Iraq they should vote with their hearts and true beliefs and cast a Green vote.
Nick Long
Nick Long