Old Farms in Sydenham

[Falkor]

Thanks to Steve Grindlay sharing his transcript of the Tithe Appotionment schedule I've now begun my first investigation into the 1843 landowners of Sydenham, starting with The Elms, in Elm Lane.

Observations (Pool River is at the bottom of the map)

*Land in green belonged to Stephen Sabin, including The Elms, which is where he resided. This land included the remains of Place House, now being used as outbuildings.
*Mr. Sabin not only owned all this land, but used most of it himself, for farming (a good portion of it was arable). The only land he owned that wasn't being used by him was the house occupied by the Keywood family.
*Stephen Sabin's land did not include anymore houses other than the aforementioned Elms and Keywood residence.
*Land in orange belonged to Samuel Forster.
*Land in purple belonged to other landlord(s).
*The outbuilding inside the purple plot, which was later to have two additional properties built beside it, had nothing to do with The Elms.

From all these observations, I think it's safe to assume that The Elms and surrounding land belonging to Stephen Sabin was, in 1843, a farm?

Please excuse my ignorance, as this is the very first time I've ever carried out this kind of research.

I wonder what the name or number of the Keywood residence was?

[Steve Grindlay]

Falkor, Edward Keywood lived in one of a terrace of four small cottages. The tenants of the other cottages are not named; in the apportionment they are simply referred to as "& others". In the 1851 census Edward Keywood is described as a "labourer". I should imagine that the cottages were for farm labourers working for Stephen Sabin. Keywood lived in the area until at least 1865.

[Falkor]

Thanks Steve, but here's the really big question on my mind:
What was the name of the farm that Stephen Sabin was trading under? The Elms was the name of the main farmhouse, although I'm not sure if the farm was known under the same name? Where I'm currently residing there are several farms, and each one has it's own name. I know the Sabins took over the farm in question from the Place House estate, for which Place House, the building, must have been the old HQ. With so much land, most, if not all the food produced by crops and livestock would have been to sell on to other traders--not just to support the family living at The Elms--there must have been enough food there to feed the starving children in Ethiopia!

[Falkor]

I just noticed Stephen Sabin's Farm is labelled up as "Perry Farm" on the 1862 Stanford Map.

There appears to have been another farm further down the road owned by Thomas Hall and mainly used by William Skeat. It's made up entirely of Pasture, and the only piece of Arable land is being used by Stephen Sabin's farm next door. "Skeat's Farm" (sounds like a good name!) appears to be based around a large house occupied by Skeat himself and possibly connected with the adjacent Two Brewers pub, for which Thomas Hall was the Landlord. Are you able to add anymore info, Steve?

On the apportionment schedule, if it states the cultivation of land as Pasture for a given plot, does this mean it is automatically part of a farm used for livestock? Or it could simply mean a piece of land with grass used for nothing?

In this case, there is 5 fields + yard + outbuildings, so what else could it be other than a farm?

[Falkor]

The next collection of open spaces on the same side of Perry Hill was based around the Manor House. Apparently, this land was known as Carter's Nursery, and is captioned as "Nursery" on the 1894/1914 Ordnance Survey maps by the time an extra building had been added to the site. However, I don't know when it first became a nursery, and if it could have originated as a farm? In 1843, there is 6 fields of pasture, similar to the previous example, but with more acres. In "Sydenham and Forest Hill Past", there is no mention of the Manor House being the HQ of a farm or nursery, but it seems it must have been...

[Falkor]

Next farm...

Land associated with Laurel Brook, similar to previous examples, but with even less acres. It's stated in "Sydenham and Forest Hill Past" that Laurel Brook may have originated from a small farm.

Where I'm living now there's a lot of fields on the green belt, nearest to developing areas, which could be described as Pasture (some of them are wasteland). I've heard from the locals that they were onced used for growing crops (etc), but these days they are not really being used for anything, although are still owned by a farm.

[Falkor]

Here's Perry Hill Farm...

The land in the north was owned by Leathersellers Company; Thomas Covell occupied most of this, based around 143 Perry Hill, and William Swinburne occupied the part shaded in green, based around 145 Perry Hill.

The land in the south was owned by John Daniels and used by John Covell.

Could all 3 sections of land occupied by both Covells and William Swinburne be part of the same farm? Some of the land in-between, based around Clare Lodge, was said have originally been an orchard of Perry Hill Farm.

EDIT: The Covell's had more land across the river!

[Falkor]

Claremont has an interesting arrangement:

Perry Green used as a garden with 2 fields joined corner to corner up to the river. Landlord/Occupant = John Allen, but the field to the right was owned by James Greaves. I'm not sure if this could be classed as a farm... I bet the family had some livestock by the river, but probably just to support themselves.

[Falkor]

Clare Lodge looks like a farm:

No sign of arable land since the first farm owned by Stephen Sabin...

[Falkor]

Sydenham Farm!

Lot's more buildings + 2 pasture + 2 arable! That's more like a true farm!

[Falkor]

What's the landlord of the Greyhound doing with 2 stray fields down at Bell Green? I don't think he has anymore property on the other side of the river...


Anyway, here's the last Perry Hill based farm, which includes some arable land:

[Falkor]

This photo proves the Manor House kept livestock!


This next photo is the best! Riverside Walk fans check this out...

Shame the quality isn't better... presumably the view looks over Perry Farm and Laurel Brook's farm towards Laurel Brook itself? And the view is taken from where the Pool River meets the Ravensbourne.