Noticed a new restaurant about to open in high street this morning on way to work
Jerk Nights ......looks really nice
J
new restuarant
Re: new restuarant
That's its name? Seriously?parklife wrote:Noticed a new restaurant about to open in high street this morning on way to work
Jerk Nights ......looks really nice
J
Re: new restuarant
Assuming it serves jerk cuisine and is open at night, seems quite apt to me!marymck wrote:That's its name? Seriously?parklife wrote:Noticed a new restaurant about to open in high street this morning on way to work
Jerk Nights ......looks really nice
J
Re: new restuarant
It used to be the launderette just past the Dolphin.
I am surprised someone described it as looking 'really nice' unless it's totally changed since I last went past on Friday. It doesn't look like it's made any effort to look proud of itself at all.
But as ever, I hope it's a good place with good service, a community spirit and good food. It's a shame how businesses present themselves still isn't seen as important in Sydenham.
I am surprised someone described it as looking 'really nice' unless it's totally changed since I last went past on Friday. It doesn't look like it's made any effort to look proud of itself at all.
But as ever, I hope it's a good place with good service, a community spirit and good food. It's a shame how businesses present themselves still isn't seen as important in Sydenham.
Re: new restuarant
You are so right Lee that many shop owners don't care about their external appearance. Perhaps they are right in it matters less than you or I might hope.
I was reminded of this last Friday in the Kirkdale Bookshop when I met Ann P looking at the latest photo exhibition there. I complimented Ann on the exhibition she ran a few years ago of Sydenham Road Shops & Shop Owners. It was, if you remember, fantastic and a revelation to all those who saw it.
Yes the photography was good. But the amazing factor was you could see how good some of our shops looked. Ann had put together so many tricks to show them fully and not obscured by parked cars and other street obstructions. Some were from tops of ladders, some must have been just after dawn, others pure luck when something moved.
In other words many of our gems lay hidden, no one driving down to Sainsbury can see what our street really looks like behind the metal barricades parked either side of the road. The shop might look great but who, apart from an interested professional such as yourself, would notice?
I have speculated that the unexpected success, first of Lordship Lane, and now Forest Hill is precisely they don't have this problem because they are too narrow or too busy for parking. Whether you are in a car, on a bus or just the other side of the street you can see what is on offer. It is an incentive to stop and buy. And then scuttle across the road to buy more. They become destinations and not, like Sydenham, just a parking slot you can quickly use to hit the ATM for the evening dosh.
All part of my heretical belief that on-street parking, beloved of our traders, is instead killing their trade.
Stuart
I was reminded of this last Friday in the Kirkdale Bookshop when I met Ann P looking at the latest photo exhibition there. I complimented Ann on the exhibition she ran a few years ago of Sydenham Road Shops & Shop Owners. It was, if you remember, fantastic and a revelation to all those who saw it.
Yes the photography was good. But the amazing factor was you could see how good some of our shops looked. Ann had put together so many tricks to show them fully and not obscured by parked cars and other street obstructions. Some were from tops of ladders, some must have been just after dawn, others pure luck when something moved.
In other words many of our gems lay hidden, no one driving down to Sainsbury can see what our street really looks like behind the metal barricades parked either side of the road. The shop might look great but who, apart from an interested professional such as yourself, would notice?
I have speculated that the unexpected success, first of Lordship Lane, and now Forest Hill is precisely they don't have this problem because they are too narrow or too busy for parking. Whether you are in a car, on a bus or just the other side of the street you can see what is on offer. It is an incentive to stop and buy. And then scuttle across the road to buy more. They become destinations and not, like Sydenham, just a parking slot you can quickly use to hit the ATM for the evening dosh.
All part of my heretical belief that on-street parking, beloved of our traders, is instead killing their trade.
Stuart
Re: new restuarant
I popped into the jerk chicken shop yesterday. It looks like they have made a real effort on the inside. But the sign and shutter are awful. They are nice people and it actually looks promising.
I totally disagree with Stuart. Do you really think our shops and high street looks good and that's its cars obscuring the that's the problem? Have you seen our shops? Dartmouth road has lots of on street parking, as does east dulwich. That's got nothing to do with why one area is more successful than another.
I totally disagree with Stuart. Do you really think our shops and high street looks good and that's its cars obscuring the that's the problem? Have you seen our shops? Dartmouth road has lots of on street parking, as does east dulwich. That's got nothing to do with why one area is more successful than another.
Re: new restuarant
What are you disagreeing with Lee? Do you deny that at Ann's exhibition the shops look good and everybody there said they surprised how good they and Sydenham Road looked?
Yes there are some eyesores (GP surgery anyone?) and anything can be improved. But the point you can't avoid is that people's perception of our street as a whole didn't match up to when they saw it uncluttered. And your good work is not being seen at its best.
Traders claim on street parking is needed. But when asked for the evidence I get a deafening silence. I would be grateful if you or anyone else could put us all straight.
Stuart
Yes there are some eyesores (GP surgery anyone?) and anything can be improved. But the point you can't avoid is that people's perception of our street as a whole didn't match up to when they saw it uncluttered. And your good work is not being seen at its best.
Traders claim on street parking is needed. But when asked for the evidence I get a deafening silence. I would be grateful if you or anyone else could put us all straight.
Stuart
Re: new restuarant
I agree with Lee. And after all, whose view is being obstructed? Not pedestrians, not bus passengers; only motorists, who should be watching the road anyway!
As a regular bus passenger, I will often get off the bus, or more often I'll decide to return later, when I see a cluster of attractive, enticing looking shops - which, as a bus passenger, I can of course see over the roofs of parked cars.
Sadly, in Lewisham we lack the enforcement of guidelines and rules that other boroughs have, so I think things will only improve when all shopkeepers have the sense of pride that most used to have and that thankfully some do still have.
Then there's the question of confidence. I suspect some shopkeepers lack confidence with choosing designs, or think that good design costs more than it does. I wonder what role the town team manager plays in this? Does he talk to new businesses before they open and encourage them to talk to Lee?
I am speaking of our sydenham high streets in general. I have not yet seen Jerk nights.
There is also far too much street and pavement clutter, too many wheelie bins (I'm looking at you Kirkdale) and too much parking on the pavements.
As a regular bus passenger, I will often get off the bus, or more often I'll decide to return later, when I see a cluster of attractive, enticing looking shops - which, as a bus passenger, I can of course see over the roofs of parked cars.
Sadly, in Lewisham we lack the enforcement of guidelines and rules that other boroughs have, so I think things will only improve when all shopkeepers have the sense of pride that most used to have and that thankfully some do still have.
Then there's the question of confidence. I suspect some shopkeepers lack confidence with choosing designs, or think that good design costs more than it does. I wonder what role the town team manager plays in this? Does he talk to new businesses before they open and encourage them to talk to Lee?
I am speaking of our sydenham high streets in general. I have not yet seen Jerk nights.
There is also far too much street and pavement clutter, too many wheelie bins (I'm looking at you Kirkdale) and too much parking on the pavements.
Re: new restuarant
I've seen the exhibition Stuart.
I don't think the shops in Sydenham Road look good. I think it's why the vast majority of people not he surveys I've carried out say that the shops look shabby.
I think the photo's were good, I think we have some nice buildings and some nice shop owners. But I still don't think the shops look good overall. We have some gems of course, by most are dirty, roller shutters aren't cleaned, signage is ugly not befitting of the architecture, window displays uninteresting, there is very little pride in appearance.
There is on street parking in Forest Hill and East Dulwich. Why do you think there isn't?
I don't think the shops in Sydenham Road look good. I think it's why the vast majority of people not he surveys I've carried out say that the shops look shabby.
I think the photo's were good, I think we have some nice buildings and some nice shop owners. But I still don't think the shops look good overall. We have some gems of course, by most are dirty, roller shutters aren't cleaned, signage is ugly not befitting of the architecture, window displays uninteresting, there is very little pride in appearance.
There is on street parking in Forest Hill and East Dulwich. Why do you think there isn't?
Re: new restuarant
Apologies for the delay in responding. Its my birthday and I always take the day off. I went to the lunchtime talk at the National Gallery. Priceless description of a priceless painting (the Martydom of St Sebastian). How lucky we are it is only a short train ride away.
Anyway getting back to Sydenham and your point:
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Lordsh ... 2,,0,10.23
and London Road:
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=london ... 11,,0,1.52
Where is this on street parking of which you speak?
And Mary, are not the majority of people being driven rather than driving up Sydenham Road? Suckers for any inviting shop display if only they could see it.
Its instructive to take, say the 176, into London and then playback what shops you remember en route. That may tell you something.
Stuart
Anyway getting back to Sydenham and your point:
I panicked and thought that in my newly elevated age dementia had finally overwhelmed me. I had to rely on my good friend Google to check things out in Lordship Lane:leenewham wrote:There is on street parking in Forest Hill and East Dulwich. Why do you think there isn't?
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Lordsh ... 2,,0,10.23
and London Road:
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=london ... 11,,0,1.52
Where is this on street parking of which you speak?
And Mary, are not the majority of people being driven rather than driving up Sydenham Road? Suckers for any inviting shop display if only they could see it.
Its instructive to take, say the 176, into London and then playback what shops you remember en route. That may tell you something.
Stuart
Re: new restuarant
Happy Birthday Stuart.
I do not believe local shops get much trade from passing motorists. The serious shoppers are on foot.
Except for handicapped people no one in Sydenham lives more than a short stroll to the High Street.
I do not believe local shops get much trade from passing motorists. The serious shoppers are on foot.
Except for handicapped people no one in Sydenham lives more than a short stroll to the High Street.
Re: new restuarant
Happy birthday Stuart.
Along Dartmouth Road there is lots of on street parking, right up to the pools.
In Lordship Lane here is some evidence:
If anything, the trees obscure the shops more than the cars!
In Sydenham Road there is little street parking until you get past the co-operative and there there are many breaks where the shops are fully visible. They aren't head turners.
Along Dartmouth Road there is lots of on street parking, right up to the pools.
In Lordship Lane here is some evidence:
If anything, the trees obscure the shops more than the cars!
In Sydenham Road there is little street parking until you get past the co-operative and there there are many breaks where the shops are fully visible. They aren't head turners.
Re: new restuarant
Lee - I think you are cherry picking 
Sydenham Road parking (both sides) is almost continuous from Girton Road to Cobbs Corner. The only exceptions are junctions, bus stops and other obstructions. Lordship Lane is bus laned so nothing on one side and very little allowed on the other. London Road is double red lined all the way.
Dartmouth Road is a side street, not a high street. And reluctant as I am to use anecdotes this one is irresistible.
Four weeks ago I posted a request here in Town Cafe for a local florist. Michael was kind enough to point one out in Dartmouth Road. As a result they got my money and my recommendation to anyone else looking for one.
Now I have travelled thousands of time past that shop. So has my good lady. And we had not noticed it was there. Its not unattractive if you look behind the ---- and is that a clue? I think I can name most of the shops in London Road good looking or bad. Can you say the same for Dartmouth Road? I have travelled to Lordship Lane specifically because I remembered there was a specialist shop I needed there (and they made money as a result).
I don't really want to labour this too much. I may be wrong in my assumptions. I have not gathered any quantitative evidence to support/not support the benefits of high street parking. But then there are people betting our and their money that there is. And when asked on what basis they too rely on anecdote. That's no way to run a business or a town centre is it?
Stuart
Sydenham Road parking (both sides) is almost continuous from Girton Road to Cobbs Corner. The only exceptions are junctions, bus stops and other obstructions. Lordship Lane is bus laned so nothing on one side and very little allowed on the other. London Road is double red lined all the way.
Dartmouth Road is a side street, not a high street. And reluctant as I am to use anecdotes this one is irresistible.
Four weeks ago I posted a request here in Town Cafe for a local florist. Michael was kind enough to point one out in Dartmouth Road. As a result they got my money and my recommendation to anyone else looking for one.
Now I have travelled thousands of time past that shop. So has my good lady. And we had not noticed it was there. Its not unattractive if you look behind the ---- and is that a clue? I think I can name most of the shops in London Road good looking or bad. Can you say the same for Dartmouth Road? I have travelled to Lordship Lane specifically because I remembered there was a specialist shop I needed there (and they made money as a result).
I don't really want to labour this too much. I may be wrong in my assumptions. I have not gathered any quantitative evidence to support/not support the benefits of high street parking. But then there are people betting our and their money that there is. And when asked on what basis they too rely on anecdote. That's no way to run a business or a town centre is it?
Stuart
Re: new restuarant
Dartmouth Road is the A2212. It is the main road, west of the railway line, between Sydenham and Forest Hill, where it joins the south circ. I'd hardly call it a side street.stuart wrote:
Dartmouth Road is a side street, not a high street. And reluctant as I am to use anecdotes this one is irresistible.
Four weeks ago I posted a request here in Town Cafe for a local florist. Michael was kind enough to point one out in Dartmouth Road. As a result they got my money and my recommendation to anyone else looking for one.
Now I have travelled thousands of time past that shop. So has my good lady. And we had not noticed it was there. Its not unattractive if you look behind the ---- and is that a clue? I think I can name most of the shops in London Road good looking or bad. Can you say the same for Dartmouth Road? I have travelled to Lordship Lane specifically because I remembered there was a specialist shop I needed there (and they made money as a result).
Stuart
Is it that you'd not noticed the florist because you'd been driving or cycling past? Because it's impossible to miss when traveling by bus, which stops outside it as one is nearly always stuck in the queue at the traffic lights at that point. I don't think there's actually a parking space there - though I stand to be corrected and it would be a really silly place to have a parking space - I think if a vehicle is pulled up there it's probably because its unloading.
But interestingly it's not often the name of the shops I remember. It's the general appearance. Thus I couldn't remember the name of the florist - nor of the bra shop, in Forest Hill. Stag and Bow I do remember, because it made me wonder what they could possibly sell (lovely haberdashery btw).
But possibly Lee might find interesting the fact that there's a Japanese supermarket near Elephant & Castle which every time I went past on the bus, I thought I must make a special trip for. But that was largely because I could see inside the plate glass windows to the displays. Now the windows are covered in pictures of foods and it's no longer enticing. For me, it's nice to actually see inside a shop.
Re: new restuarant
Whoops, you are right Marymarymck wrote: Is it that you'd not noticed the florist because you'd been driving or cycling past? Because it's impossible to miss when traveling by bus, which stops outside it as one is nearly always stuck in the queue at the traffic lights at that point. I don't think there's actually a parking space there - though I stand to be corrected and it would be a really silly place to have a parking space - I think if a vehicle is pulled up there it's probably because its unloading.
But clasping desperately onto some way of not letting facts get in the way of a good story - why didn't I see it? Is it about sight lines in a very narrow crowded road. I dunno. I need to go back and check. Sydenham Road has so much more potential and I still need convincing that people's perception of Sydenham's shops actually matches reality. They do need to be improved but is it enough. Like something below, will they be seen?
[youtubes]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo[/youtubes]
(My good lady fell for it last night!)
Stuart
Re: new restuarant
I think actually Stuart it's a good example for Lee. It's just not (in my opinion) a very attractive shop front. And the flowers themselves don't look particular enticing. They might be wonderful, but they don't tempt me. To be honest, I've never bought anything there! Whereas Pesh flowers, I have gone out of my way to go to ... just because of its kerb appeal from the bus. Something about the way the flowers are displayed makes them feel luscious.
I don't know why I could remember the name Pesh Flowers but I couldn't remember the name Laurel's. Lee?
I don't know why I could remember the name Pesh Flowers but I couldn't remember the name Laurel's. Lee?
Re: new restuarant
To be honest, driving past shops you don't really see them, even without cars unless you are stopped. When driving you should be looking where you are going, not at the shops. We recently designed a cafe in New Cross and I drove past it twice after the new signage was installed, and despite there being no parking in front I didn't see it both times, and I WAS LOOKING FOR IT! Even my wife who was in the back with our son, on the right side of the road missed it.
When we designed Billings I got emails from people who wanted to know who had designed it after driving past it. There is parking in front of the shop, but the signage stands out.
Signage works on a couple of levels. Higher up it's good for cars as it's out of the eyeline of the the few places in the high street where cars may be parked.
Shops really should have their name on the window or lower down on the stall riser for people walking past. People don't see the sign when they walk past a shop. It baffles me why so many shops don't do this.
They should have an extending sign which works for both passing traffic and people walking up the street. One is enough. Ideally is should be at the same height and as the other signs in neighbouring shops.
They should have an attractive window display that changes seasonally.
Shops should ALWAYS have the street number on it. It drives me mad when I've been trying to find somewhere and I don't know where a bouts any shops are because none have numbers on them.
It's pointless writing too much on the front of a shop, no one reads the front of a shop. They look at it briefly and make a judgement whether to go inside or not. It's based on perception.
Pesh Flowers in in Camberwell isn't it? It always signified the divide between 'orrid shabby camberwell and where it gets nicer towards the hospital (Pesh being in the nicer bit).
East Dulwich has shabby shops and a fair amount of kebab shops, greasy spoons, takeaways, betting shops etc, yet the perception of the area is completely different because a lot of shops look proud of themselves. Shops in Sydenham simply don't look proud of themselves. I don't think it's anything to do with some of the cars packed in the area.
Have you seen this Stuart: http://designedbygoodpeople.wordpress.c ... ppearance/
When we designed Billings I got emails from people who wanted to know who had designed it after driving past it. There is parking in front of the shop, but the signage stands out.
Signage works on a couple of levels. Higher up it's good for cars as it's out of the eyeline of the the few places in the high street where cars may be parked.
Shops really should have their name on the window or lower down on the stall riser for people walking past. People don't see the sign when they walk past a shop. It baffles me why so many shops don't do this.
They should have an extending sign which works for both passing traffic and people walking up the street. One is enough. Ideally is should be at the same height and as the other signs in neighbouring shops.
They should have an attractive window display that changes seasonally.
Shops should ALWAYS have the street number on it. It drives me mad when I've been trying to find somewhere and I don't know where a bouts any shops are because none have numbers on them.
It's pointless writing too much on the front of a shop, no one reads the front of a shop. They look at it briefly and make a judgement whether to go inside or not. It's based on perception.
Pesh Flowers in in Camberwell isn't it? It always signified the divide between 'orrid shabby camberwell and where it gets nicer towards the hospital (Pesh being in the nicer bit).
East Dulwich has shabby shops and a fair amount of kebab shops, greasy spoons, takeaways, betting shops etc, yet the perception of the area is completely different because a lot of shops look proud of themselves. Shops in Sydenham simply don't look proud of themselves. I don't think it's anything to do with some of the cars packed in the area.
Have you seen this Stuart: http://designedbygoodpeople.wordpress.c ... ppearance/
Re: new restuarant
Gorgeous pictures, Lee! Is Owen & Owen the cake shop?
Re: new restuarant
If we got rid of the ugly plastic modern signage with terrible typography people insist on putting up on the original shop frontages and used old fashioned sign writers (and/or local graphic designers or artists) to paint shop names everything would look a million times more appealing. I would LOVE to see them taken down. It'd be a tough sell on the shopkeepers I imagine but would be relatively inexpensive and make an unbelievable visual difference. The Crystal Palace Market is a good example locally of a Victorian shop facade sympathetically and beautifully restored...
Re: new restuarantw
Hello Everyone,
Thank you for the mention on Sydenhams town forum. Jerk Night is a Caribbean restaurant specialising in Jamaican Jerk BBQ. We are a family run business and live local to the area. We love Sydenham and are very proud to have opened our first restaurant here.
Those of you who have passed by in recent months would have noticed work on the shop had been going on for months. We are still making improvements to the restaurants decor but are just very happy to have finally opened our doors to the public!
We welcome your feedback as it will only help is to improve our business. We hope to see you all down there one day enjoying a tasty Jerk meal!
Mark & Sonia
Jerk Night
Thank you for the mention on Sydenhams town forum. Jerk Night is a Caribbean restaurant specialising in Jamaican Jerk BBQ. We are a family run business and live local to the area. We love Sydenham and are very proud to have opened our first restaurant here.
Those of you who have passed by in recent months would have noticed work on the shop had been going on for months. We are still making improvements to the restaurants decor but are just very happy to have finally opened our doors to the public!
We welcome your feedback as it will only help is to improve our business. We hope to see you all down there one day enjoying a tasty Jerk meal!
Mark & Sonia
Jerk Night