Adamsrill Primary School expansion plans

[Susie1791]

Adamsrill Primary school is being expanded due to pressure on primary places across the borough. This building work is estimated to take 14 months. Key Stage 1 children need to be moved to a decant temporary site, the one currently being considered is at Willow Way, which is behind the Tesco Express on Kirkdale. A lot of parents at the school are very alarmed by this suggestion for many reasons. Willow Way is 1.2 miles from Adamsrill so for a lot of parents who currently walk, will now need to drive to the decant Site. This may add a lot more traffic to the High Street, Kirkdale, Willow Way and Dartmouth road junction. Decisions are currently being made as to the final choice for the decant site and if any local residents have any concerns, please contact Margaret Brightman at Lewisham Council (Margaret.Brightman@lewisham.gov.uk). This will be a amazing project and will benefit the community greatly but in the meantime, whilst this build is taking place, a more considered decant site needs to be chosen.
Many thanks.

[JRobinson]

I was under the impression that they were going to put porta cabin style classrooms in the north end of Home Park as a temporary decant site.

also 1.2 miles isn't exactly a long way (20 minutes walk ish) - why do you assume that most parents are going to have to drive?

[Susie1791]

The response we had to why Home Park was no longer being considered was it was not considered appropriate to encroach on this public facility, that the installation of a decant facility would reduce the amount of the site available for use by the rest of the community. I find this hard to believe as being a local resident, I regularly walk past Home Park and the park rarely has more than a handful of people at any one time. This park is not used by local residents as much as other parks in the area, such as Mayow Park. If a third or so of the park is taken up by a temporary school for 38 weeks, I fail to see in any way shape or form, how the local residents (of which I am one) who use the park would suffer in any way. And the reason why more parents will need to drive is Key Stage 2 upwards are staying at Adamsrill, so a lot of parents will have to drop off children in 2 different locations. Plus, the Decant Site will be nursery upwards so some of these children will be 3 upwards, potentially a long walk for some small children.

[stuart]

Yes, I too am appalled to think the children are not capable of walking 1.2 miles. Do 'em good. Indeed a very good reason to consider the move. At that time of day it would probably be quicker than trying to drive it both ways.

My primary school had exactly the same problem. The two top classes were decanted to a site about three miles away. We went to the normal school assembly to keep the school ethos and then were coached to our classrooms. Don Everall was the coach operator and as a sponsor of West Bromwich Albion and provided their team coach. Occasionally we would start school sitting in the same seat as Derek Kevan, Bobby Robson, Ronnie Allen and a rather obscure player who, I gather, later rescued Arsenal from similar obscurity ... oh schoolboy heaven!

But I digress. One of London's biggest coach operators is based not much more than a stones throw from Adamsrill. Why not ask Clarkes for a quote or sponsorship?

Stuart

[Susie1791]

I don't think it's a case of them not being capable, it's more of a logistical problem for parents with one or more children in the upper classes staying at Adamsrill and a younger one being move to the top end of Sydenham, at the moment, there are no proposals for staggered starting times, which I presume they will have to do otherwise it would be pretty impossible. The option of using coaches has been brought up by parents to Lewisham planning and the school but so far they have done a good job of avoiding answering it, it looks like they are unwilling to spend the money on it.

[stuart]

On second thoughts - what is wrong with catching the 202 (lower Sydenham to Kirkdale/willow Way)?
Its free for kids isn't it?

Why is it a problem for parents if one kid has to leave home before the other? Or don't you trust your kids to catch a bus? If so don't you think you are missing out on a great opportunity to do so?

Stuart

[JRobinson]

school crocdile? - deliver all kids to school at Adamsrill as per normal, once all there, walk the youngest to the new site in a crocdile, with Hi-Vis jackets, and 57 teaching assistants. of course you'd have to shorten the day to allow the walking time either end, and for the kids to start and leave, from Adamsrill site at the same time.

[stuart]

They could easily cycle or walk. From the map there looks to be a pleasant back route using the cycle assisted footbridge across the railway so they are kept well clear of congested Sydenham Road. I really don't see the problem. Maybe that's why Lewisham don't see it as a great way to spend our money 'cos people are too lazy.

Time take? Perhaps they wouldn't need as much PE

Stuart

[Susie1791]

The age group that are going to the Decant Site is age 3 to 6 so I guess no, I wouldn't trust them to take a bus on their own. Thank you for your interest in reading the thread, as I said, decision are being made at this time, so if anyone has any concerns, they are welcome to contact Margaret Brightman on the email address provided. Many thanks.

[stuart]

That's a point. But why the younger groups? I can understand why you would want to protect them more and they would want more stability than the older classes. Strange they should be chosen group.

It would seem more rational to decant years 5/6. After all we expect year 7 to commute by themselves to the other end of the borough. What is the issue here?

Stuart

[JMLF]

Accentuate the positive perhaps?! (I don't have kids so please take what I say with a pinch of salt from an outsider's perspective!)

- My sister's fiance was part of a research study and was even on newsround (the big leagues people regarding european children vs uk children and travelling to school. Unfortunately I can't remember the finer details but it essentially said that younger children travelling to school either independently/with peers or by a system rather then driven (like lead by a member of staff and paired off as you would do going to a park) are healthier, more independent and understanding of social dangers (such as traffic) and as a result may be more sociable secondary to travelling alongside other children.

- Increased footfall for the Kirkdale area which sounds like it is much needed and may lead to some investment/development

Jon

[Daddydancing]

There are more children in the KS2 group and would therefore require a larger site. It is the KS1 section of the school that is being demolished and not the KS2

It would take a grown up 20 mins or so to walk the 1.2 miles to Willow Way, a 5 year would take an hour there and back, with a full day at school, 5 days a week, physically the children would be exhausted. This tiredness would also impact on their ability to learn and enjoy school life. Would you enjoy your working life if you employer told you for 14 months, you have to walk an extra hour to and from work each day (equal to a child’s 20m min walk).

Yes walking is a good form of exercise, but when your only a meter tall with little legs, it really isn’t practical. Walking is an impractical solution for many parents who have to work and use childcare, In reality we would all love to be able to drop and collect our own children from school, but financially this is not an option for most parents.

Also Willow Way is a very small link road, connecting Kirkdale and Dartmouth road. Articulated lorries regularly use that road to deliver goods to Tescos express, along with other industrial units. Having mamy many more parents driving, parking and trying to navigate this narrow link road is an awful decision.

I will be emailing Lewisham to complain, I hope and encourage others to do so

[stuart]

Sorry to appear dim on this. But what is the relevance of KS1 & KS2?

Are not classes organised in year groups? In which case why has Lewisham not reduced the numbers required by the number of year groups starting from the top? Would that not go lower than, say six, and most would hence be able to use some mixture of bus, walking or cycling?

If you are asking for our support it is encumbent to explain why it is only possible to do it the particular way. Lewisham has presumably explained this to parents. Can you share that with the rest of the community?

Stuart

[Susie1791]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by what is the relevance of KS1 and KS2. There are a shortage of KS1 places in Lewisham due to a supposedly baby boom and I'm guessing a lot of people moving to the area as it's one of the few places in London where houses are still affordable (just!) - KS1 applies to primary school children between the ages of 5 to 7 (Year 1 and 2). Adamsrill have taken in bulge classes for the past few years as they have to but the building is a old single extension and unable to cope with the increase so is being upgraded to a two-storey block. It's been decided by the School and Lewisham that KS1 children move to the Decant Site which will also include nursery and Reception, so children aged between 3 and 7. It's not been explained by Lewisham why the older children were not considered to move to the Decant Site, I'm guessing because it's affecting KS1 it was a automatic response to move them and perhaps less disruptive as the older children will be more exam focussed going in to Secondary school.

[stuart]

I'm worried you may be right. Its looking at it the simplest way to re-organise the school but ignoring the consequences outside it (and back on to the younger pupils themselves).

The impact, as you say on split time parents and joining the mayhem (if not moving can be described as mayhem) on Sydenham Road also brings no joy to the existing road users. Its also natural for people (cf Lewisham Education Officers) to resist being questioned on decisions already made - even more to consider changing them.

It is really up to you parents to decide if there is anything to be done - or there are indeed overwhelming reasons why it is a good idea. I guess you should lobby our councillors if you are getting nowhere on this.

At least we agree 3/4 year olds making their own (or being driven by parents) is not acceptable. It would be different if older Adamsrill children were involved and your problem would largely disappear.

Stuart

[Rachael]

Sometimes we underestimate our children, and don't know what is possible until we try it. My children went to Our Lady and St Philip Neri school. Nursery and KS1 are in an annex on Mayow Road, near the Perry Vale End. KS2 are on Sydenham Road beside the library.

I live very near the Mayow Road site. Every day, twice a day, my little one had to walk down to the Sydenham Road site when we dropped off his sister, then walk back up to go to the annex. We had fifteen minute between drop-offs and it is JUST do-able in that time. So he walked an hour a day, despite insisting that he would be fine if I just left him in the house while I went the main building and picked him up on the way back again to go to the annex! Was he exhausted by it? I wish.

The walk to Willow Way would of course be longer, and even to me it seems a bit too long - not for the children's little legs, but for the pain-in-the-ass logistics it will cause for parents and child-minders. But my point is that parents at Adamsrill should keep open minds about what is and isn't possible when offered various solutions to this problem.

[Susie1791]

I do agree with that Rachel, when my son was 3 he went to a pre-school which was 1.5 miles away and we walked or went on the scooter every day, rain or shine. My problem with Willow Way is that there are better solutions much closer to the school that have been dismissed suppousedly due to residents complaints, our issue is that local residents suppousedly have their say but not parents, I am local to some of the places that were proposed and I don't recall seeing or hearing anything to oppose these options. And you are right, it is the pain-in-the ass logistics that is one of the driving forces for this, I have no issue with walking or any other arguements brought up previously but when you are trying to juggle school, work and childcare as alot of parents are, then the issue comes in, I am potentially loosing my childminder of nearly 6 years who my son loves and we are happy with because logistically she is unable to do this round trip as also has smaller children in her care.

[Rachael]

I wish you all luck with this, susie1791. I don't think everyone appreciates the complex arrangements that many parents have to maintain to make their working days feasible. It often involves a chain of events and people, and if one of those is changed, the whole thing can come crashing down. Working parents walk a tightrope, every day praying that everything holds together. I'm sorry to hear that you might lose your childminder if this change goes through, that must be a real worry.

The issues are much more wide-ranging that just whether or not a child can walk a certain distance in a day, that's for sure.

[Eagle]

It does seem rather strange to move a primary school all the way from Lower Sydenham to Willow Way.

Surely one should build near as possible to the current site.

We need to avoid making people travel when it is not required.

Only advantage for WW is the proximity for the staff of The Brick.

[stuart]

It does seem rather strange to move a primary school all the way from Lower Sydenham to Willow Way.
Surely one should build near as possible to the current site.

They are rebuilding on the original Adamsrill School campus. Whilst they replace the classrooms they have to move some of the pupils away to temporary classrooms elsewhere. This was originally going to be in Home Park. The new proposal is Willow Way.

When it is complete everybody will be back on the same site. It all there higher up this thread.

Stuart