The Haven & Rookstone redevelopment

[Annie.]

If that's true, ( I don't doubt it is) then that seems wrong?

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[Nigel]

Tim
Are you serious ? You think Lewishams failing is not building enough schools and other infrastructure ? With what resources ?
It's failing is allowing its population to grow in ways that it can't sustain .
I know you are quite tickled by increasing housing density but we have to start matching people and jobs housing to supply of housing .
I know at least one person will start wittering about "social cleansing " but we can't all afford to live where we choose
I have many friends who rent and buy in cheaper areas , further out and not their choice . Why should anyone that has not lived in lewisham for some years be a priority to house in the relative centrality of Lewisham ? Why would we not focus our housing , including social housing further out where there is cheaper supply , more existing housing and less market competition from people who have worked hard to but somewhere ?
Good evening
Nigel

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[Annie.]

It would be cheaper to pay for a train pass an hour away than try to cram everyone into small spaces,
People want homes to live in not small boxes on top of each other.

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[Eagle]

Nigel makes a valid point.

Why should we have to house people who have made themselves homeless to come to Lewisham.

I appreciate we need more homes , but also need green spaces. No good saying to someone in Sydenham we have the green belt. That is miles away. We want green spaces here.

[love-sydenham]

We love living in Sydenham, we lived here 11years ago then moved to north London, and two and half years ago moved back to Sydenham from Maida Vale, not because we could not afford to live there, (we had a perfect home), but because we found that area being over populated and we just wanted more space and less people!
We thought, ok, fair enough, the journey will take us longer, it will cost us more, and so on, but we will have less population and more green spaces, less people on the trains, and so on... But just over two years down the line, and it is really changing!...!...
In my opinion, there are already too many people moving/have moved to live here!...
The trains are absolutely packed (3 years ago when the new overground line has just opened, it was empty on the trains even in the rush hour), but now, you almost need to fight to get on!...
I felt that before it was peaceful and quiet here, but it is changing

Love-Sydenham


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[Eagle]

Love Sydenham

Agree 100% with your sentiments. However knowing Sydenham for 70 decades , not sure often peaceful.

[love-sydenham]

Let me correct myself, by "Peaceful" I mainly meant less people per square mile, as for example in Maida Vale the majority of the housing are the "mansion blocks" which means far more people crammed in into one area than let's say Sydenham, where the majority of the housing are or "use to be" the terraced houses... of cause there are tower blocks here and so are in Maida Vale, but it felt quieter here, (thats why I said - peaceful) and that's the reason we came back...

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[Tim Lund]

Why should anyone that has not lived in lewisham for some years be a priority to house in the relative centrality of Lewisham ?

Because such systems lead to trouble - lots of administrative effort checking up whether people aren't cheating the system, and all the atendant bad will. There's something equivalent in China, where there's a similar move to large cities, where people have to wait for resident permits. However, the authorities there would rather now they didn't have it, only abandoning it creates its own difficulties.

Why would we not focus our housing , including social housing further out where there is cheaper supply , more existing housing and less market competition from people who have worked hard to but somewhere ?

When you say "we", if you just mean people who feel the same way as you, then you exclude the people who evidently don't feel the same way, because they do want to come to live here. They may not yet have "worked hard" as many years as old stagers like us, since they will be the sort of young people looking for the opportunity to work hard in the future - like most incomers, both from the UK and overseas, making a net financial contribution to society. Your point of view does not seem fair to me.

[Nigel]

Tim,
Egg and bacon pie beckons so will have to reply economically .
"We" - yes used as a collective noun
"Fair" - I think so
"Net benefit to economy" - unfounded and for you uncharacteristically lacking in any evidence .
If I ever upped sticks and move to Belgium , I would not whinge about being unable to afford to live in the centre of Ghent - I would buy where i could afford and work up as best I could . Is this so unusual ? Is it not what we all do?
A very good evening
Nigel

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[Tim Lund]

Tim,
Egg and bacon pie beckons so will have to reply economically .
"We" - yes used as a collective noun
"Fair" - I think so
"Net benefit to economy" - unfounded and for you uncharacteristically lacking in any evidence .

You didn't follow the link?

If I ever upped sticks and move to Belgium , I would not whinge about being unable to afford to live in the centre of Ghent - I would buy where i could afford and work up as best I could . Is this so unusual ? Is it not what we all do?

This - combined with Bensonby's asking why people don't, like him, just go to live further out of London - may form the starting point for a longer, considered response, but not here and now.

[Nigel]

Tim
I did read it and it is not conclusive - no more than Migration Watch's data .
What is clear apart from it does not take into account depression of wages and reduced participation in the workplace by indigenous workers , is that the effect is hugely variable - both in terms of demands made on public services and economic activity rates .
I would say without doubt that lewisham is NOT on the receiving side of this equation compared to say parts of Norfolk who get for instance 99% single young workers , all working in agriculture living on housing supplied by employers .
I know you want to build a house a school a surgery and a university in Sydenham for anyone who leaves their country - that is laudable as most of your ambitions but lets not pretend that this does not represent a huge and debilitating cost to our borough .
Good morning
Nigel

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[Eagle]

Good morning Nigel.

You write wise words.

It does seem strange that Lewisham have a responsibility to house and educate anyone who turns up in the borough , even if they have actually made themselves homeless.

I think it is time to look at this strange law , which is not remotely fair on the borough or the council tax payers.

Of course we do need skilled immigrants ( mainly down to our depressing education system ) however I believe we should follow our Australian cousins and have work permits before one is allowed to get a job.
If our economy does continue to do relatively well against the Eurozone then we can expects hundreds of thousands more unskilled immigrants.
What chance of our British unskilled to get work?


Getting back to this devolopment I agree with Nigel , enough is enough in Sydenham . There have and are many recent large building sites in the area. I know this site is in Bromley but still very close to Sydenham.

[leenewham]

Annie, regarding infrastructure in lower Sydenham/upper beckenham, many of the local schools down/up here are being expanded, the road layout around bell green has been improved and of corse there is talk about the baker loo line coming to these parts. The frontage of the library is being done up and fresh paving replacing the perfectly fine but weed ridden paving down this way (complete waste of money I'm my book, what we have just needs repair, weeding with money spent on hero areas like the front of home park.).

House prices in lower Sydenham have shot up recently despite all the new building. Houses selling above asking price. But the new flats are still expensive, not far off a period house price. So I'm not surprised.

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[Annie.]

Have the doctors at Bell Green expanded? The school places that have been expanded are they just one form entry extra or have all the years been added? Is there employment for all the new residents?
Either most of the new residents work nights? As their closed curtains in the middle of the day may indicate, or they are unemployed?

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[Eagle]

Annie

I hope work at night. I do not want the council to subsidise the unemployed in new housing

[Manwithaview1]

Annie

I hope work at night. I do not want the council to subsidise the unemployed in new housing

7 out of 8 Housing Benefit claimants work. Many unemployed are NOT in social housing. Why do you keep repeating tired old debunked myths about the unemployed Eagle?

[Eagle]

MWAV

If you read Annie's post in the whole , you would have read she was concerned that unless they were shift workers they were unemployed as curtains pulled during day.

This has nothing to do with how many housing benefit people are working ? Totally irrelevant old chap.

[blakewho]

Closed curtains during the day do not necessarily indicate unemployment or even shift work at this time of the year. I get up at dawn to commute to NW London and return long after dark. It's frequently not worth my while to open the curtains during the week, unless I actually am dossing around the flat for some reason.

Yours gainfully employed,

[Annie.]

You might be the exception?

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[LPC]

Please remember, this was a fully staffed care home for the elderly and a children's care home up until approximately a year ago... It is disappointing that there is no value placed on these type of services.The Salvation Army is letting this site degrade to the extent that any development will be welcomed.
Is it now the view that all development is a good thing rather than site-specific appropriate development?