Deadline approaching in battle to save The Windmill

[marymck]

We are immediate neighbours to the ill-fated Greyhound and have suffered much because of the ‘do-gooders’ trying to save a pub that quite frankly is dead in the water. Because of these ‘well meaning’ self-righteous people we have an eyesore at the Gateway to Sydenham. And it doesn’t look like getting fixed any time soon.

For the sake of the community I don’t want to see another part of Sydenham going down that same route. Mary has stated that she is concerned for people’s jobs. Sainsburys will create a lot more jobs than 2 or 3 part time bar people working in a pub that cannot pay its way.

I wonder how many of those campaigning for the pub to stay open actually drink in the pub on a regular basis or would do so once it is ‘saved’. Perhaps Mary should be channelling her energies into ensuring that the local pubs that are open and thriving, have disabled access. Or perhaps getting the money together to actually run the pub themselves.

Dear Gillyjp

You are the second person in this forum who has sought to tell me how I ought to be spending my time and energies. Feel free to take your own advice and get involved in campaigning. for the things you suggest.

When did you last visit the Windmill? I can assure you it is far from dead in the water. Do you have evidence that the pub is not paying its way? If so, please share it, rather than making baseless allegations. Have you and the others who post derogatory remarks on here looked the customers and the experienced bar staff in the eye and told them what you're saying on here?

I don't know why so many on this site seem determined to support Tesco, Sainsburys and their ilk and sabotage the efforts of those trying to save their local social gathering places. But I can assure you, you and your kind are making Sainsburys execs very happy indeed.

The Windmill is thriving. I and other customers hope we can save it. As do the many who hold events from Christening, to birthdays, to 1st Holy communion celebrations, to funeral wakes.

All that to be thrown away because someone can't be bothered to walk a few extra paces to buy a pint of milk? It's crazy.

As for taking on the lease and running the pub, there is someone interested. All we're asking for is just that opportunity. I am sick of repeating that, on this thread and in the real world.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Annie.]

Mary, most of us wish you well with your campaign, ignore the ones who don't.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[gillyjp]

Marymck

It would seem that anyone who does not agree with you or your campaign is dismissed as a trouble maker or ‘determined to support Tesco, Sainsburys and their ilk’ Mere presumptions on your part I'm afraid. Having an allotment, we are actually virtually self sufficient in our food provision during the summer and autumn months and when we do have to buy provisions we favour the Co-op.

You say that the Windmill is thriving – however by Dr Gabriel the owner’s own admission and I quote:
I understand that some local residents do not wish to see the pub close and I would like to make it clear that this is not a decision that we have made lightly. However, we cannot carry on or sustain running the premises as a pub as it has been making a huge loss for some time now. Recent tenants have not been able to make the business a success and we are currently running the pub on a loss. This is not sustainable and we will sadly need to close the pub by the end of the year.

I would like to remind all those on here that don’t agree with my postings I am entitled to have an opinion on the subject and to voice it on the Sydenham Town Forum. The fact that it doesn’t sit well with you or your ilk is not my concern. I thought that one was allowed to freely express one’s opinions on this site and not get shot down everytime one disagrees with a well intended but ill-advised campaigner.

[hairybuddha]

Well said - I have no sympathy with Tesco or Sainsbury's but I won't shed a tear if The Windmill doesn't survive. It is an ugly, miserable pub and appears to be a failing business. And as I've said many times on here, there are already more than enough pubs in the area.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[marymck]

Marymck

It would seem that anyone who does not agree with you or your campaign is dismissed as a trouble maker or ‘determined to support Tesco, Sainsburys and their ilk’ Mere presumptions on your part I'm afraid. Having an allotment, we are actually virtually self sufficient in our food provision during the summer and autumn months and when we do have to buy provisions we favour the Co-op.

You say that the Windmill is thriving – however by Dr Gabriel the owner’s own admission and I quote:
I understand that some local residents do not wish to see the pub close and I would like to make it clear that this is not a decision that we have made lightly. However, we cannot carry on or sustain running the premises as a pub as it has been making a huge loss for some time now. Recent tenants have not been able to make the business a success and we are currently running the pub on a loss. This is not sustainable and we will sadly need to close the pub by the end of the year.

I would like to remind all those on here that don’t agree with my postings I am entitled to have an opinion on the subject and to voice it on the Sydenham Town Forum. The fact that it doesn’t sit well with you or your ilk is not my concern. I thought that one was allowed to freely express one’s opinions on this site and not get shot down everytime one disagrees with a well intended but ill-advised campaigner.

Of course you and HB are entitled to your opinions. But that's what they are. Just opinions.

Dr C's claims are just claims. Not evidence. If he had evidence, I am sure he would have shared it with Lewisham.

Rubbishng others attempts to keep their community alive seems mean thing to do, to my mind.

Thank you Annie, Nigel and others for your warm words and support.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Eagle]

Mary
I have been out of town today but just seen the posts. You are doing a great job for Sydenham.

[gillyjp]

Marymck

It would seem that anyone who does not agree with you or your campaign is dismissed as a trouble maker or ‘determined to support Tesco, Sainsburys and their ilk’ Mere presumptions on your part I'm afraid. Having an allotment, we are actually virtually self sufficient in our food provision during the summer and autumn months and when we do have to buy provisions we favour the Co-op.

You say that the Windmill is thriving – however by Dr Gabriel the owner’s own admission and I quote:
I understand that some local residents do not wish to see the pub close and I would like to make it clear that this is not a decision that we have made lightly. However, we cannot carry on or sustain running the premises as a pub as it has been making a huge loss for some time now. Recent tenants have not been able to make the business a success and we are currently running the pub on a loss. This is not sustainable and we will sadly need to close the pub by the end of the year.

I would like to remind all those on here that don’t agree with my postings I am entitled to have an opinion on the subject and to voice it on the Sydenham Town Forum. The fact that it doesn’t sit well with you or your ilk is not my concern. I thought that one was allowed to freely express one’s opinions on this site and not get shot down everytime one disagrees with a well intended but ill-advised campaigner.

Of course you and HB are entitled to your opinions. But that's what they are. Just opinions.

Dr C's claims are just claims. Not evidence. If he had evidence, I am sure he would have shared it with Lewisham.

Rubbishng others attempts to keep their community alive seems mean thing to do, to my mind.

Thank you Annie, Nigel and others for your warm words and support.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

Actually I think it is rather cruel to pat someone on the back and tell them they are doing a ‘great job for the community’ when in fact, as the Greyhound experience has shown us, the agony is just being prolonged. Unfortunately for you I, and others on this forum, see it rather differently and I have the guts to say so and, in so doing, incur the wrath of some misguided locals. I can live with that.

I’m sorry if that offends you and you see it as 'rubbishing your efforts' but so be it. Let's hope if and when the Windmill is 'saved', Annie, Nigel et al are up at the bar putting their money where their mouths are.

[Annie.]

Actually Jillyp if you read my posts where I have written anything to do with the Windmill you will find I have stated I only visited the pub when it was a wetherspoons and only a couple of times.
I commend Mary on her determination to save the pub,that does not mean I frequent pubs or will plan to do so should the Windmill survive.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[gillyjp]

Nicely side-stepped Annie

[Annie.]

I don't need to side step Jillyp ,
Like you I am allowed my own opinion, I have never said I personally know anything about the pub, however, if it is such a loss to the community as Mary States, and I have no reason to disbelieve her, then good luck to her I hope she succeeds in her campaign.
You also mention the Greyhound pub, yes I would like to see it rebuilt, for historic reasons and also for the fact that the wrong should be put right. Just My Opinion.:0))

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[simono]

I have not posted on this thread or indeed the whole site for a couple of weeks because like gillyjp I was getting a bit bored. Also I was getting rather annoyed that because I dared to challenge the quasi religious orthodoxy of many contributors it was all getting a bit personal.
But anyway time to wade back into the fray on this one and the Greyhound a bit later!
So marymc you think that the owner is playing a fast one saying he is not making money from the pub. I thought the whole point of business and capitalism in general was to maximise profit. Why would the owner shut a business if he was making money out of it? The sad logic of the market economy is to maximise profit and until the move a socialist society (or at least till Ed M gets elected) and I am afraid good intensions will get us nowhere. Anyway why would the owner share his accounts Lewisham it has nothing to do with them, it is not a planning consideration and actually is nothing to do with us either.
So the only way any pub to be kept open is for us all to go into them and drink on a regular basis. Annie I see you are not willing to do this and neither are most people which is why 52 (the British Beer and Pub Associations own figures) or 26 (CAMARA) pubs a week are closing. I love going to pubs but like most people on this site I have just had Sunday dinner at home with a bottle of wine I bought in a supermarket (sorry everyone but it was Sainsburys). I tend to do my shopping once a week but when I need something I walk past Tesco and go to the Co-op as I have no desire to see Tesco or Sainsbury’s take over the world. But I also recognise that in a market economy the profit motive will out.
Alternatively we could set up a social business to take over the Windmill (or would the Greyhound be more popular?) but like any enterprise it would only survive if people want to go into drink in sufficient numbers to make the thing pay? Any takers?

[Eagle]

Simono
One accepts a lot of what you say and true this is not an historic pub.

When the current owners purchased from , i assume, Wetherspoon's , they knew it was a pub and they would need change of use from LBL to change that.

Well managed pubs are a big asset to the local community. Maybe the owners should talk to someone like Antic , who know how to run a pub.

I really fail to understand why the area needs another convenience store.

You mention The Greyhound. I am on the other side of the argument there as I know most people living close to the site just want it finished in any form. Pub or no pub.

[Manwithaview1]

Breweries have killed the pub trade by selling their booze to supermarkets for a song. Plus massive rents

[Eagle]

MWAV

You are partly correct. The mass produced rubbish beers which are on the decline have caused many not great pubs to close.

The future is the real ale revolution , and demand is growing by a huge amount.

Moon and Stars now has the Penge Brewer , Late Knights , as a regular beer.

[JRobinson]

the worst thing that happened to pub trade was the marketing people at large breweries convincing Joe Public that what they really want to drink is underflavoured, overcarbonated, chemically enhanced, mass produced, fast fermented, ice cold, overpriced, watered down pish.
now, many years later, that's what most people want their beer to taste like, so that's what gets served.
proper beer and craft ale, only gets served in specialist pubs where they know how to look after it, and where the flavour is appreciated.

[parker]

There's a lot of 'fruit beer' flying around today... I was at The Draft House in Lordship Lane last week trying them out. They taste OK, at £4.95 for half a pint bottle that had packaging a 50p bottle from Lidl would have I wasn't too impressed. I suspect It's all unrecognisable, cheap but overpriced crap; most of it...

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Tim Lund]

There's a lot of 'fruit beer' flying around today...

It may be an acquired taste, but one of the most disgusting drinks I've ever tasted was a strawberry flavoured beer I once tried in Brussels. Keep foreign muck out of here, I say

For the thinking man's beer, you need London Pride



Source here

[Steveofsyd]

Not sure we can complain about foreign beers when we produce so much gnats piss here . LAAAGAAA
I very partial to Pale Ales and I wish our local pubs did more of them, either on tap or bottled.
Was in New York a couple of weeks ago and I went to many pubs whilst I was there. Every one had their own specialist selection of IPA , ales and beers etc. and they all put our own to shame...being honest.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[sparticus]

Why did Weatherspoons pull out? If they couldn't make money there with their huge buying power then it's highly unlikely that anyone else could. But it's not the point really-lots of pubs which have been able to provide the landlord with a reasonable living have been flogged off by the freeholders because they are able to make more money in the short term that way, and when the returns are marginal, which I suspect is the case for the Windmill, then the owners would be mad not to get out and sell up. It's the same old story, high property prices, high rents and business rates mean that people looking to run a business on the high street providing a service to the local community and a modest living don't stand a chance. I too am a fan of some of the excellent craft beers that are produced by the burgeoning craft brewers-there are apparently over 40 in London alone now. And some excellent American-style IPA is being produced. But the economics of the trade seriously militate against small local outlets which is why, I suspect, the micro-pub movement hasn't kicked off in London and why most outlets that keep a range of interesting craft beers are barns of places which keep their beers under gas and sell at eye-watering prices.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Eagle]

If my memory serves me correctly they sold the Pub shortly after opening The Capitol.

Before that time they had indeed operated a number of smaller pubs , even the now infamous Bird in Hand. As they had grown a lot they decided to operate larger establishments and sold a number of the ones that they considered to small.

Would make a very nice Pub if allowed to be operated properly with good quality ales and good home cooked food.