Just lost respect for Sydenham Town Forum

[owlwise]

What sort of racist topic is that???

[Rachael]

What topic are you referring to?

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[owlwise]

Where have all the benefit scrounging immigrants gone?

[JulietP]

Erm, it is merely Admin telling everyone that subjects related to benefits. foreigners etc. (as beloved by Eagle) have been moved to their own dedicated board to leave the pub free for other topics. Did you read the thread itself?

[owlwise]

Erm, trying to be controversial to get attention by accusing immigrants of benefit scrounging is racist and does not gain respect from me. I'm disgusted at Admin for stooping so low.

[Rachael]

Owlwise, you have misread what Admin has done. He is not accusing immigrants of being scrounges, he is in fact moving all threads that DO make that and similar topics to a separate part of the forum.

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[owlwise]

Maybe I did misunderstand what Admin has done but why should they be given any sort of platform on STF? PC madness. Ignorant bigots shouldn't be given a platform.

[Barry]

Maybe I did misunderstand what Admin has done but why should they be given any sort of platform on STF? PC madness. Ignorant bigots shouldn't be given a platform.

Apparently there's no test, when people join the STF. Apparently any idiot can join, it's how I got in!

[Annie.]

This has now got stupid.

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[gigi]

Erm, trying to be controversial to get attention by accusing immigrants of benefit scrounging is racist and does not gain respect from me. I'm disgusted at Admin for stooping so low.

I completely agree with you and I think the reason why there haven't been any complaints is because there are not many foreigners in this forum. Being one myself and never been on benefits since I moved here (and never "stolen" jobs from British people as I use my first language at work), I find putting benefit abuse, the work shy and immigrants under the same umbrella (as if they were all linked together) extremely offensive.
Coming from a forum where people want to create a village/community feeling.. well, let's just say it is hypocritical..
What's next? one different forum for foreigners?

[Rachael]

I think the point that Admin was trying to make is that some posters here ARE regularly putting benefits and scroungers and immigrants together, causing unpleasant arguments in the Pub, so Admin decided to 'quarantine' these posts in a separate section. The title of his thread was intended to highlight the controversial nature of those threads that he had moved,not saying he was agreeing with them. Insert the word 'posts' in the title and you get what he meant: Where Have All The Benefit Scrounging Immigrant POSTS Gone' is what he meant.

Gigi - plenty of people objected to those THREADS themselves - indeed it was the constant arguments they provoked that made Admin move them. It's unfair to say no one complained.

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[leenewham]

I agree with Rachael. It was about the posts regularly made by an avid Daily Mail and Telegraph reader on this forum.

[admin]

Sorry if I overdosed on the irony.

Owlise the issue I was trying to tackle is that some people wanted to argue this particular subject area for and against. Other people, like you, feel this is offensive to many people in our community and are repelled from contributing to STF if they have to plough through this stuff.

As this is a forum for all the people in SE26 I do not see myself as censoring what people might say. But I have to be realistic and I went for a judgement of Soloman creating a subforum where people want to discuss immigration, benefits and citizenship can continue to do so. Those that don't can avoid it.

It is your choice. And if you did read that sub forum you would find most posts in tune with you. So please relax. It was not as you first thought.

Admin

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[marymck]

Whilst I can understand why Admin has done this, I think it's going to make some threads very difficult to administer. Housing for example, where many of the pressures on Lewisham are because of our high levels of immigration. You can't look seriously at the need for more housing without acknowledging population growth, Much of which official statistics already shared on this site have shown is down to immigration. Unpalatable as it may be to have to acknowledge. So discussions on housing would need to get relegated to the ghetto of the Town Benefit Office thread. Similarly any discussions on the need for so many more school places. People who have genuine concerns about these pressures don't all deserve to be labelled as bigots.

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[Annie.]

Well said Mary,not Racist at all.

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[Rachael]

I agree with Mary that Admin has probably made his life harder by this decision. As an experiment, it may not work, but it's worth attempting. I have a feeling that Admin will leave such discussions in the Pub where they are reasonable and based on fact. It's when they are unsupported and borderline offensive that he'll move them. Truly offensive posts break forum rules and I'm sure those will be removed in the normal way.

Putting certain posts in a separate forum also highlights who *ahem* are most often the originators and perpetuators of these threads, which usually follow this pattern:

1. OP states something as fact but without supporting evidence.
2. Other members ask for supporting evidence and provide own evidence for counter argument.
3. OP ignores counter evidence and continues to state opinion as fact.
4. Other members continue to ask for evidence.
5. OP stops contributing to thread without ever answering directly asked questions.
6. OP starts another thread in same style.
7. Cycle continues ad infinitum.

The problem with this sort of posting is that it gets tedious and sucks the life out of the Pub. Putting them to one side liberates the Pub for other discussions. It also solves the conundrum that while we know arguing with certain posters is like trying to wrestle with jelly, we don't want to leave their views unchallenged as we run the risk of visitors to the forum assuming we all agree. Letting such threads wither will be easier if they are quarantined elsewhere.

However, Admin does run the risk of being accused of victimising a small number of posters.

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[Eagle]

I am totally confused. Nothing new there.

As Mary points out one can hardly discuss matter like housing ( what will Tim do ) without reference to immigration.

One or two people mentioned they find discussion about immigration as racist. All the parties and the majority of the people would disagree with you. We are simply discussing the ,mass inflow of unskilled migrants when we have 3 million unemployed.

I am quite confident I have never made a racist comment of this forum or elsewhere.

We have become paranoid in this country.

[Annie.]

I thought Freedom of speech was all important? Nothing insightful or Racist in the posts that I have read,
Just a difference of opinion,
Surely some posters are just trying to silence some other posters?
Feel like its 1984.

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[parker]

I completely agree with Mary, Eagle and Annie... Well said between you all.

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[Rachael]

The accusations of racism came from a misinterpretation of the title of a thread Admin started. Admin did not say he moved the threads because they were racist. If accusations of racism were made within the threads, people are still free to defend themselves as the posts are all still there.

No one's threads or posts have been deleted, so freedom of speech has not been lost. Everyone is free to continue to debate those issues.