When only months ago Cllr Best was rallying teams together to get rid of this. If this has since changed I am not sure why. Stuck in the numerous new traffic light system (a traffic light system a few metres from a roundabout?)- I watched a graffiti ‘ist’ in broad daylight; working from a piece of paper, spray caning a new image across the boards of the construction site just by Kirkdale Bookshop.
This morning an empty shop on the High Street has also been spray canned. Perhaps lots more too?
I presume this is part of the SE26 Arts Festival or SEE3. It doesn’t matter exactly, why has this been allowed to happen? The images in my opinion are very tacky (the equivalent of an Athena poster), provide no aesthetic value to the high street.
SEE3 I acknowledge are bringing pop up shops to the high street. Finally! Way, way behind the schedule. But these are tucked away from the footfall. Enticing start-up ventures might be relatively easy but the actual aim of the Portas Pilot is to find the right fit, the right product to suit the location and look for sustainability- which they have failed to do in SE26.
Currently without this basic premise sets start -ups to face failure. Certainly we don’t need ‘potential’ fashion labels- this is the second time they have allowed this. There have been surplus ideas posted on this forum offering ideas. Obviously I don’t expect them to produce the cinema, but neither do I really want something so vacuous as a nightclub.
Whilst supper clubs, clubbing might sound fun to some- it has nothing to do with the aims of the Portas Pilot which is to do with opening empty retail shops and offering a product which suits the locals.
Graffiti, I think we have enough of this so has no added value. Street art may have an aesthetic value- if it is subtle
Why is there a lot of new graffiti on Sydenham High Street?
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goonerchamp
- Posts: 167
- Joined: 28 Jun 2005 12:18
- Location: Sydenham, Sydenham where the f**k is Sydenham
Re: Why is there a lot of new graffiti on Sydenham High Stre
I personally live on sydenham road and think these are a fast improvement to the (for example) solid yellow block shutter you see when the store that was Paulros is closed! - cant really see why you're complaining to be honest - story of this forum…people complaining for sake of complaining !!!
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hairybuddha
Re: Why is there a lot of new graffiti on Sydenham High Stre
+1 to the above. They have "graffitied" the shutters down the Kent House Rd end and I think they look great!
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Re: Why is there a lot of new graffiti on Sydenham High Stre
We were commenting about how fantastic the new art on the walls is. Really brightens up the high street. The piece on the side of the DIY store is particularly impressive. An intricate piece of work that really adds some colour and life to what was just a boring old cement covered wall.
I think all this adds to the high street and what the guys behind SEE3 are doing is excellent. A friend of mine had one of the original pop-ups and it has helped him greatly in getting his work out to a wider market and hopefully it will do the same for others. We also have a great new ice cream parlour in what was Jill. As for the type of shops, I guess it depends on who wants the shops and if the best proposition is a fashion label then so be it, and good luck to them!
As for the nightclub, there is already a nightclub in Sydenham, it exists, people go there, many complain about the clientele. What SEE3 are trying to do is change the perception of this nighclub and use the space to create more interesting events targeting the growing 25-40 year old professionals in the area.
G-Man
I think all this adds to the high street and what the guys behind SEE3 are doing is excellent. A friend of mine had one of the original pop-ups and it has helped him greatly in getting his work out to a wider market and hopefully it will do the same for others. We also have a great new ice cream parlour in what was Jill. As for the type of shops, I guess it depends on who wants the shops and if the best proposition is a fashion label then so be it, and good luck to them!
As for the nightclub, there is already a nightclub in Sydenham, it exists, people go there, many complain about the clientele. What SEE3 are trying to do is change the perception of this nighclub and use the space to create more interesting events targeting the growing 25-40 year old professionals in the area.
G-Man
Re: Why is there a lot of new graffiti on Sydenham High Stre
The graffiti 'ARTist' was given permission and was probably paid for their work. Why shouldn't they work in broad daylight rather than like a criminal in the middle of the night?art4 wrote:I watched a graffiti ‘ist’ in broad daylight; working from a piece of paper, spray caning a new image across the boards of the construction site just by Kirkdale Bookshop.
This morning an empty shop on the High Street has also been spray canned. Perhaps lots more too?
I presume this is part of the SE26 Arts Festival or SEE3. It doesn’t matter exactly, why has this been allowed to happen? The images in my opinion are very tacky (the equivalent of an Athena poster), provide no aesthetic value to the high street.
Their art may not be to your taste, but why compare it to Athena poster? Perhaps because you are still upset by the description of your shop as 'Athena-a-like store' on another forum. Is this just the standard insult thrown out in the art world for anything that is just too popular to be considered 'real art'?
Perhaps there is a place for original Athena-a-like art on our high street rather than massive billboards and blank walls?
Portas Pilot is about finding new ways to revitalise our high streets. This is more than just opening up closed shops, it is about creating a sustainable future for these businesses in a town centre that attracts shoppers and other activities. Town centres are meant to be the centres of our towns, not the bits we try to avoid.art4 wrote:Whilst supper clubs, clubbing might sound fun to some- it has nothing to do with the aims of the Portas Pilot which is to do with opening empty retail shops and offering a product which suits the locals.
SEE3 have found some imaginative ways to compliment the new and existing shops. If supper clubs are one way to bring people back into the high streets and increase recognition of existing businesses, while promoting a night-time economy that does not revolve around kebabs, then I think it has everything to do with the aims of the Portas Pilot project.
Re: Why is there a lot of new graffiti on Sydenham High Stre
Sounds like another email of sour grapes by Art4 who tendered for the pop ups and didn't win.
I think the changes are overall positive. I'm not mad on all the new street art, the DIY wall one looks great, but the roller shutters with the arrows er...doesn't.
Some of the shops aren't my cup of tea (some I loved), but this isn't about me. What matters Is it all better than it was and there is more diversity in the high street. It is extremely hard getting new businesses on the high street and creating pop ups, I'm not sure why Art4 thinks it's easy.
What it boils down to is this: Should support the people making positive change in the high street and encourage it, or do we fight it and end up with nothing?
Art4, if you want to make a difference, see if you can help SEE3 in some way (like we did). Or start something of your own to help local businesses (like we did).
I think the changes are overall positive. I'm not mad on all the new street art, the DIY wall one looks great, but the roller shutters with the arrows er...doesn't.
Some of the shops aren't my cup of tea (some I loved), but this isn't about me. What matters Is it all better than it was and there is more diversity in the high street. It is extremely hard getting new businesses on the high street and creating pop ups, I'm not sure why Art4 thinks it's easy.
What it boils down to is this: Should support the people making positive change in the high street and encourage it, or do we fight it and end up with nothing?
Art4, if you want to make a difference, see if you can help SEE3 in some way (like we did). Or start something of your own to help local businesses (like we did).
Re: Why is there a lot of new graffiti on Sydenham High Stre
I saw the DIY wall in progress and thought it looked good. Not seen others yet in Sydenham, but there are several recent additons in Forest Hill - shutter's on Aga's Deli and The Butchery (was a pop-up now permanent due to the success they had - congratulations), and a Horniman's inspired walrus replacing the plain boarding on a closed unit.
Another +1 from me for thinking they liven up the high street; and thanks to all working hard to improve SE26 (& SE23).
Dan
Another +1 from me for thinking they liven up the high street; and thanks to all working hard to improve SE26 (& SE23).
Dan
Re: Why is there a lot of new graffiti on Sydenham High Stre
OK, so I'm coming at this as a relative outsider (for now) as a Brixton resident and I'm glad to say I'm also one of the numerous posters on here massively in favour of the Street Art, and in fact all of the activities being undertaken by See3 and the Shop Revolution, in Sydenham. I recently bought a flat in Sydenham with my partner (we're just waiting for our chain to end and we'll be there!), after finding what I've been raving to my friends about as South East London's best kept secret.
I've lived in Brixton for the past three years and the change and regeneration to the town in that short time has been enormous, and part of the draw to buying in Sydenham was seeing the potential for a comparative change, with a real buzz around food, fashion, markets and art, which yes, I think does include street art. (The Urban Art fair that took place in Brixton over the last weekend included, as well as 'Proper Art', a whole stretch of road dedicated to spraypainting a disused tube carriage which is now sitting pride of place in the town centre). I've seen how these initiatives can really transform an area into a thriving destination and I'm fantastically excited about moving into Sydenham. I'm glad that on the whole, from what I've seen, the people of Sydenham are managing to avoid getting bogged down with a minority of nay-saying and whinging which would end in Nice Safe public art and Nice Safe shops and/or nothing at all.
And no, perhaps you aren't interested in going to a nightclub. So don't go. I personally would welcome a nightclub/late-night bar or two. Again, I've seen the positive effects that bars, restaurants and nightclubs can have in kickstarting an area's economy and bringing in new people who will contribute to the diversity and buzz of the town.
If you're going to transform an area into a real destination, I'm afraid taking the safe, subtle route to public art/shops that no-one really objects to or in fact has any opinion on whatsoever is never going to work. If you want to put a place on the map and get people into the town spending money and making use of the high street you've got to take a bit of a stand. Keep up the good work See3, Shop Revolution, Global Street Art, etc! So excited about becoming a Sydenham resident.
I've lived in Brixton for the past three years and the change and regeneration to the town in that short time has been enormous, and part of the draw to buying in Sydenham was seeing the potential for a comparative change, with a real buzz around food, fashion, markets and art, which yes, I think does include street art. (The Urban Art fair that took place in Brixton over the last weekend included, as well as 'Proper Art', a whole stretch of road dedicated to spraypainting a disused tube carriage which is now sitting pride of place in the town centre). I've seen how these initiatives can really transform an area into a thriving destination and I'm fantastically excited about moving into Sydenham. I'm glad that on the whole, from what I've seen, the people of Sydenham are managing to avoid getting bogged down with a minority of nay-saying and whinging which would end in Nice Safe public art and Nice Safe shops and/or nothing at all.
And no, perhaps you aren't interested in going to a nightclub. So don't go. I personally would welcome a nightclub/late-night bar or two. Again, I've seen the positive effects that bars, restaurants and nightclubs can have in kickstarting an area's economy and bringing in new people who will contribute to the diversity and buzz of the town.
If you're going to transform an area into a real destination, I'm afraid taking the safe, subtle route to public art/shops that no-one really objects to or in fact has any opinion on whatsoever is never going to work. If you want to put a place on the map and get people into the town spending money and making use of the high street you've got to take a bit of a stand. Keep up the good work See3, Shop Revolution, Global Street Art, etc! So excited about becoming a Sydenham resident.
Re: Why is there a lot of new graffiti on Sydenham High Stre
Graffiti
I have read the comments and do still think graffiti art is not appropriate for our high street, particularly when we are in the process of improving it.
Are we not by doing this operating at least over a decade behind the times? Are we talking instead about the Town Team embracing urban art over a cup of tea and a cup cake?
It feels forced, completely manufactured so loses any artistic value and subtlety. Only weeks ago Cllr Best gathered a team together to remove graffiti. Does this team of hers now have an understanding of art and take commissions?
Pop Up Shops
Organising graffiti for what benefit (cool?!)
SEE3 are way behind on their schedule. Are offering start- up companies shops off the high street locations. No business will survive under these conditions. Instead ticks a box on the SEE3 agenda they forget mention that the space is so far down the high street so don’t expect customers.
Has SE26 forgotten what the Portas Pilot Fund is about?
It should be about anchoring the shopper to the location. Researching and understanding their needs- with the aim to create a sustainable business and scale up.
Jill (let alone where is Jack) was supposed to be a hub providing advice to the pop ups. Instead became an extremely non-event.
I have read the comments and do still think graffiti art is not appropriate for our high street, particularly when we are in the process of improving it.
Are we not by doing this operating at least over a decade behind the times? Are we talking instead about the Town Team embracing urban art over a cup of tea and a cup cake?
It feels forced, completely manufactured so loses any artistic value and subtlety. Only weeks ago Cllr Best gathered a team together to remove graffiti. Does this team of hers now have an understanding of art and take commissions?
Pop Up Shops
Organising graffiti for what benefit (cool?!)
SEE3 are way behind on their schedule. Are offering start- up companies shops off the high street locations. No business will survive under these conditions. Instead ticks a box on the SEE3 agenda they forget mention that the space is so far down the high street so don’t expect customers.
Has SE26 forgotten what the Portas Pilot Fund is about?
It should be about anchoring the shopper to the location. Researching and understanding their needs- with the aim to create a sustainable business and scale up.
Jill (let alone where is Jack) was supposed to be a hub providing advice to the pop ups. Instead became an extremely non-event.
Re: Why is there a lot of new graffiti on Sydenham High Stre
There is a fabulous artwork on a billboard on Perry Vale, on the approach to Forest Hill Station. Seriously good and most definitely contemporary and of high artistic merit. Well done, SEE3.
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Re: Why is there a lot of new graffiti on Sydenham High Stre
I think we can declare it a success despite the differences there will always be about art (low & high) or just decoration. In contrast to the Narborhood Mosaics which divided opinion the Graffiti appears to have been a success with everyone - bar one!
That everyone is also a pretty diverse mob - professional graphics people to those with no such pretension. Its hard to get such an almost united agreement about anything in SE26. The originators should take pride they judged such a challenging concept was worth the risk.
It paid off. Bravo!
Stuart
That everyone is also a pretty diverse mob - professional graphics people to those with no such pretension. Its hard to get such an almost united agreement about anything in SE26. The originators should take pride they judged such a challenging concept was worth the risk.
It paid off. Bravo!
Stuart
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paultreacy
- Posts: 487
- Joined: 10 Jun 2008 17:40
- Location: Lawrie Park Road
Re: Why is there a lot of new graffiti on Sydenham High Stre
It's not graffiti. It's an art form that happens to use the same tools. These are murals. Graffiti is rather different.
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Re: Why is there a lot of new graffiti on Sydenham High Stre
"In your opinion"; which doesn’t really count for much. People like them, you don’t, get over it. Some of us prefer the “graffiti” to bare walls and plain shutters.art4 wrote:The images in my opinion are very tacky (the equivalent of an Athena poster), provide no aesthetic value to the high street.
It’s a shame you lost out on pop up shop tender for I am sure we would have had an Oliver Spencer pop up for menswear and Ally Capellino for ladies bags, which would of course been massively successful. I’m sure you could also have persuaded Gerhard Richter to pop over from Cologne for the weekend and paint some acceptable (to you) shutters.
I’ve always been sceptical about a celebrity led high street revival that smells of posture politics but I am glad we got some of the money. I’m also glad that we are actually spending it, while other recipients are dithering. I don’t really care if it doesn’t exactly meet the brief either, at least something is being done.
Your comment about “vacuous” night clubs says it all really. You need to get out more, or even better out of Sydenham, which is so obviously below you and your aesthetic values. How about Dulwich, even East Dulwich? Oh, sorry you can’t afford to, can you? Welcome to the reality of SE26 Art4.
Re: Why is there a lot of new graffiti on Sydenham High Stre
Real art looks like this http://www.londonart.co.uk/sales/artwor ... rkID=87716
Why couldn't SEE3 have commissioned art4 to throw some paint at a wall? Something a bit more contemporary than a graffiti style mural that is so passe that it was included in both the Dulwich Arts Festival and the Sydenham Arts Festival.
The sad thing about Art4's sour grapes is that it leads her to attack everything that SEE3 (and the Sydenham Art Festival) have done, including much that is praiseworthy, successful, and popular. Every time I read her comments I'm so pleased that she was not put in charge of regeneration of Sydenham and Forest Hill.
Why couldn't SEE3 have commissioned art4 to throw some paint at a wall? Something a bit more contemporary than a graffiti style mural that is so passe that it was included in both the Dulwich Arts Festival and the Sydenham Arts Festival.
The sad thing about Art4's sour grapes is that it leads her to attack everything that SEE3 (and the Sydenham Art Festival) have done, including much that is praiseworthy, successful, and popular. Every time I read her comments I'm so pleased that she was not put in charge of regeneration of Sydenham and Forest Hill.
Re: Why is there a lot of new graffiti on Sydenham High Stre
I’m interested to hear the graffiti is popular.
Perhaps I’ll grow to like it too-but my first impression is it feels to contradict with the efforts to smarten up the high street- like taking a step backwards. It also feels imposed.
I’ve made some fair points re: the pop ups. Why this translates in to ‘sour grapes’ I have no idea. I have always supported the various new shops and spread the word because I want them to work.
Fully understand that it’s not an easy task to set these up or to run them- there are costs involved for the trader. An exciting but also can be a nerve racking experience. Therefore surely it makes it even more vital for the choice of product to be chosen carefully to suit the needs of the locals- something which they can buy into and find a way to support in order to hopefully create sustainability.
Locations I do realise aren’t easy to find but if empty shops are too far off the beaten track- where there is no shopper footfall it will isolate rather than connect the pop up to the high street. It will require extra marketing and this needs to be achieved in a short timescale to keep the shop financially viable and prevent the transience which is happening now.
I am interested in the project- have a lot of first-hand experience so may be able to offer constructive insight- knowing full well the potential pitfalls. Its hard graft, challenging and not without risk.
Supper clubs I think are an excellent idea really. And after reading some of the posts can now imagine the clubbing may have popular appeal- both bringing the community to together. I think if the pop ups can simultaneously become sustainable with the right choice of product (which needs to be the focus) then will be further exciting.
Perhaps I’ll grow to like it too-but my first impression is it feels to contradict with the efforts to smarten up the high street- like taking a step backwards. It also feels imposed.
I’ve made some fair points re: the pop ups. Why this translates in to ‘sour grapes’ I have no idea. I have always supported the various new shops and spread the word because I want them to work.
Fully understand that it’s not an easy task to set these up or to run them- there are costs involved for the trader. An exciting but also can be a nerve racking experience. Therefore surely it makes it even more vital for the choice of product to be chosen carefully to suit the needs of the locals- something which they can buy into and find a way to support in order to hopefully create sustainability.
Locations I do realise aren’t easy to find but if empty shops are too far off the beaten track- where there is no shopper footfall it will isolate rather than connect the pop up to the high street. It will require extra marketing and this needs to be achieved in a short timescale to keep the shop financially viable and prevent the transience which is happening now.
I am interested in the project- have a lot of first-hand experience so may be able to offer constructive insight- knowing full well the potential pitfalls. Its hard graft, challenging and not without risk.
Supper clubs I think are an excellent idea really. And after reading some of the posts can now imagine the clubbing may have popular appeal- both bringing the community to together. I think if the pop ups can simultaneously become sustainable with the right choice of product (which needs to be the focus) then will be further exciting.
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LivesNearby
- Posts: 47
- Joined: 21 Feb 2008 11:44
- Location: Forest Hill
Re: Why is there a lot of new graffiti on Sydenham High Stre
Why would Art4 want to move to East Dulwich? They're got pictures of stck men all over their buildings 
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Re: Why is there a lot of new graffiti on Sydenham High Stre
Michael I have read your comments- you seem to be taking this very personally.
If you have any true knowledge about what I do then you will realise that my time is spent providing a platform to a lot of local artists and promoting them. There are numerous on-going projects to support which helps develop new channels, so not only reliant on the local market but attracting an audience from further afield which is important.
If you have any true knowledge about what I do then you will realise that my time is spent providing a platform to a lot of local artists and promoting them. There are numerous on-going projects to support which helps develop new channels, so not only reliant on the local market but attracting an audience from further afield which is important.
Re: Why is there a lot of new graffiti on Sydenham High Stre
Quite funny! Actually you're right I'm not too keen on the stick graffiti eitherLivesNearby wrote:Why would Art4 want to move to East Dulwich? They're got pictures of stck men all over their buildings
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Re: Why is there a lot of new graffiti on Sydenham High Stre
I think Stick is fantastic.
Re: Why is there a lot of new graffiti on Sydenham High Stre
I was approached last year to promote graffiti art in our gallery. Decided against because may not suit Dulwich Village? Perhaps if I was in Shoreditch might be different, but passed the opportunity 10 years or so ago there too.
Going off track here to a degree- but I think what does influence my perspective is the need to work out what can sell. So I take a business perspective. If I fail to do that then I’m compromising the artist.
I think this has application to the pop ups- it’s a tough market out there so a lateral strategy alongside minimising avoidable risk is vital (e.g.choice of product, location)
Going off track here to a degree- but I think what does influence my perspective is the need to work out what can sell. So I take a business perspective. If I fail to do that then I’m compromising the artist.
I think this has application to the pop ups- it’s a tough market out there so a lateral strategy alongside minimising avoidable risk is vital (e.g.choice of product, location)