Yes fencing/boarding to be erected this week (Tuesday and Wednesday) followed by demolitionbiffa wrote:any updates or rumours ?
The Greyhound to Close!
Greyhound
Fantastic news that the Greyhound is to close, it was always a hideous pub and despite the Sydenham Society sticking their noses into getting it listed, the pub that exists now is not worth the salvage.
Roll out the bulldozers and lets hope we can begin the gentrification of Sydenham at long last.
Excellent news that the Blue Mountain cafe is going into the old pine shop, about time we had a decent coffee shop here
Roll out the bulldozers and lets hope we can begin the gentrification of Sydenham at long last.
Excellent news that the Blue Mountain cafe is going into the old pine shop, about time we had a decent coffee shop here
Just for the record - it was the Sydenham Society (working closely with Sydenham Traders) who encouraged both the Blue Mountain Cafe and The Dolphin to set up shop in Sydenham. The £2m to be spent on improving Sydenham Road is as a result of the Sydenham Society's Gateway proposal published in 2004 and the support of Lewisham council in their application for funds from TFL. We welcome as many individuals and organisations as possible putting in the hard, painstaking work which revitalising SE26 requires.
Improvements to Sydenham Road aren't going to come from bulldozers but from a well-planned housing development which retains the building. I think that there is often a misunderstanding of the position of those who wish to retain the Greyhound. We do not wish to retain the pub's old "management" style or those portions of their former clientele who spent their time knifing and shooting each other. God forbid! We want to retain the building and see it prosper as a well-run business.
Despite the fact that the site is currently being boarded and fenced, I am fully confident that this well-loved local landmark will remain a focal part of Sydenham life and that there will be no need for individuals to chain themselves to bulldozers.
The comments about the Sydenham Society getting the Greyhound listed are puzzling. What on earth are you talking about? Buildings are always being put forward for listing, sometimes at the request of English Heritage, sometimes by local councils etc. The last time the Sydenham Society asked for the pub to be listed was in the early 1990s when there was no thought that it might eventually be under threat. We are making no attempts to have the building listed currently.
Improvements to Sydenham Road aren't going to come from bulldozers but from a well-planned housing development which retains the building. I think that there is often a misunderstanding of the position of those who wish to retain the Greyhound. We do not wish to retain the pub's old "management" style or those portions of their former clientele who spent their time knifing and shooting each other. God forbid! We want to retain the building and see it prosper as a well-run business.
Despite the fact that the site is currently being boarded and fenced, I am fully confident that this well-loved local landmark will remain a focal part of Sydenham life and that there will be no need for individuals to chain themselves to bulldozers.
The comments about the Sydenham Society getting the Greyhound listed are puzzling. What on earth are you talking about? Buildings are always being put forward for listing, sometimes at the request of English Heritage, sometimes by local councils etc. The last time the Sydenham Society asked for the pub to be listed was in the early 1990s when there was no thought that it might eventually be under threat. We are making no attempts to have the building listed currently.
Greyhound pub
Has anyone read the Milford Group posting on this forum? Go back a bit and you should find it. If The Greyhound is demolished I hope any new development is well set back from the high street, to at least where the pub building is now. I have seen developments on high streets which go right up to the pavement and they feel really oppressive and out of proportion. Landscaping at the front also needs to be a priority with large shrubs or small trees. Many developers/planners really neglect this element probably because of cost on the developers part or because planners underestimate its positive impact on the enivronment by softening the building etc.
I have never been inside the Greyhound because of the crowd it seemed to attract and it looked poorly managed (lots dead shrubs in pots outside and messy looking window dressing etc) but it is a really nice building and with the right management I'm sure it could have been a really good pub/restaurant with the demographic to fill it in the roads off Sydenham road and in upper Sydenham and beyond. It looks like it has funtion rooms too! The Dolphin should be an inspiration to anyone in the pub/restaurant trade!
I have never been inside the Greyhound because of the crowd it seemed to attract and it looked poorly managed (lots dead shrubs in pots outside and messy looking window dressing etc) but it is a really nice building and with the right management I'm sure it could have been a really good pub/restaurant with the demographic to fill it in the roads off Sydenham road and in upper Sydenham and beyond. It looks like it has funtion rooms too! The Dolphin should be an inspiration to anyone in the pub/restaurant trade!
Isn't a petition a way of asking people what their feelings are?The Eagle wrote:Well managed pub....... haven't we heard all this before?annabel mclaren wrote:A petition to save the Greyhound, supporting the retention of a well-managed pub and a 'sensitive' development in the car park has now been started by the Sydenham Society. You can sign it at the Kirkdale Bookshop, opposite the pub.
Before Sydenham Society started this petition did they ask the LOCAL residents what their feelings are about this?
If this building is knocked down it is gone forever.
If this is no longer a pub, it wont become a pub abain in our lifetimes if its converted to flats.
The more resorces that are developed and therefore removed from public use, the less desirable an area is. I Live in brockley and I woudl LOVE to move to Sydenham, but I would love somethign to do there. If the pub was properly run it would be a great asset to the oack community. Communities need places like this, IF PROPERLY RUN.
I used to live in a hotel my parents managed, they make a difference.
Sydenham has HUGE potential. The best bet for Sydenham would be to buy up old council buildings (most of which are privately owned these days) and convert those like they have in Deptford.
"Sydenham has HUGE potential. The best bet for Sydenham would be to buy up old council buildings (most of which are privately owned these days) and convert those like they have in Deptford.[/quote]
Ok, Interesting Why and What for ?
n.b. I heard the new devlopment was meant to have a new Pub within it ?
Ok, Interesting Why and What for ?
n.b. I heard the new devlopment was meant to have a new Pub within it ?
In reply to Dutch Cow (I'mnot being nasty, this is your name!) I meant the developers, rather than changing a local landmark and asset like the Greyhound, change somethign thatis perhaps rundown and deveop old ugly council buildings, make part of it low cost housing like they HAVE to do these days anyway and everyones a winner. The people who used to live in the buildings can move on for a fair price.
Just an idea.
Just an idea.
If the Greyhound is demolished, I think it needs to be made crystal clear that you may not necessarily get a pub back in its place. All the developer needs to to provide in planning law is to retain A3 use ie to provide a restaurant, pub, snack bar, cafe, wine bar or a shop for the sale of hot food.
As you'll see from the list above, this could include many things apart from a pub. It most instances it results in takeaways and fast food outlets.
It is not unknown at pre-planning stage for developers to make quite extravagant claims about the number of high quality businesses who are "queueing up" to get into their developments. It is also not unknown for developers to get planning permission to demolish buidings, knock them down and then seek to change A3 back to non-food and even residential use.
I think it's important to understand that any developer wanting to demolish the Greyhound will initially promise A3 use - and will "lay it on thick" about what's coming in place of the demolished building. If they didn't promise to replace the pub the local authority would simply be able to claim "change of use" and stop the entire plan. And remember - all the developer has to do is promise to provide a new business in the very wide category of A3. There are no specifics in planning despite the often significant "carrots" that all developers like to dangle in front of planning committees and often gullible locals.
As you'll see from the list above, this could include many things apart from a pub. It most instances it results in takeaways and fast food outlets.
It is not unknown at pre-planning stage for developers to make quite extravagant claims about the number of high quality businesses who are "queueing up" to get into their developments. It is also not unknown for developers to get planning permission to demolish buidings, knock them down and then seek to change A3 back to non-food and even residential use.
I think it's important to understand that any developer wanting to demolish the Greyhound will initially promise A3 use - and will "lay it on thick" about what's coming in place of the demolished building. If they didn't promise to replace the pub the local authority would simply be able to claim "change of use" and stop the entire plan. And remember - all the developer has to do is promise to provide a new business in the very wide category of A3. There are no specifics in planning despite the often significant "carrots" that all developers like to dangle in front of planning committees and often gullible locals.
Following on from nasaroc's post, I think it would be highly unlikely than any new development will include a pub. Few people want to live in close proximity to a public house, and given the developer's main aim is bound to be to maximise residential, they'd be pretty foolish include a pub when they can meet A3 use requirements with a cafe or restaurant.
The hoarding which has gone up around the pub now looks very ominous...
The hoarding which has gone up around the pub now looks very ominous...
Is there any guarantee that it will re open as a Pub if the Building is not demolished ?
Where are the instances where new A3 as part of a new residential scheme "mostly" becomes fast food outlets and takeaways?
The High street "Names" open new outlets weekly, they must go somewhere, surely ,or are you implying that " High quality " businesses would not be interested in Sydenham ? What if they are and by assumption you are prohibiting them opening in SE26 ?
Just a thought.
Where are the instances where new A3 as part of a new residential scheme "mostly" becomes fast food outlets and takeaways?
The High street "Names" open new outlets weekly, they must go somewhere, surely ,or are you implying that " High quality " businesses would not be interested in Sydenham ? What if they are and by assumption you are prohibiting them opening in SE26 ?
Just a thought.
I am a bit confused ! nasaroc states the above and then the following comments follow from anotther Society member called Barry in the News Shopper !nasaroc wrote:
The comments about the Sydenham Society getting the Greyhound listed are puzzling. What on earth are you talking about? Buildings are always being put forward for listing, sometimes at the request of English Heritage, sometimes by local councils etc. The last time the Sydenham Society asked for the pub to be listed was in the early 1990s when there was no thought that it might eventually be under threat. We are making no attempts to have the building listed currently.
http://tinyurl.com/3acrec
I am puzzled.
Any sharp-eyed member of this forum will know that I am Barry Milton.
All I can do is to repeat what I said on this forum - the Sydenham Society is not requesting that the Greyhound be listed. This is being done by a local who is not a member of the Society. We are aware of this request for listing since the individual contacted us and told us what he was doing. We have not requested that he attempts to list the building.
This is merely an indication of the large number of individuals in this area who are opposed to the destruction of the pub. We don't control them. For example, we had no knowledge of the fact that four senior Lewisham councillors (all of them on the various planning committees incidentally!) were also getting their photo taken in front of the pub by the News Shopper.
To be honest with you when the reporter from the News Shopper phoned me I was down at the tyre bay at the bottom of Adamsrill Road standing next to the guy removing the nuts on my tyres with a pneumatic gun. I could barely hear what the reporter was saying. She told me she needed to confirm some facts in the next few minutes since the paper was going to press. She asked me my age, whether I was a member of the Sydenham Society and if I was opposed to the demolition of the building.
I was totally startled to read in the News Shopper that the Society was requesting listing - absolutely not true. Also I was amazed to read that I thought that listing the pub was "a last ditch effort to save the Greyhound" because it absolutely can't be described as that. The campaign to save the Greyhound is only just getting underway.
Hope this helps.
All I can do is to repeat what I said on this forum - the Sydenham Society is not requesting that the Greyhound be listed. This is being done by a local who is not a member of the Society. We are aware of this request for listing since the individual contacted us and told us what he was doing. We have not requested that he attempts to list the building.
This is merely an indication of the large number of individuals in this area who are opposed to the destruction of the pub. We don't control them. For example, we had no knowledge of the fact that four senior Lewisham councillors (all of them on the various planning committees incidentally!) were also getting their photo taken in front of the pub by the News Shopper.
To be honest with you when the reporter from the News Shopper phoned me I was down at the tyre bay at the bottom of Adamsrill Road standing next to the guy removing the nuts on my tyres with a pneumatic gun. I could barely hear what the reporter was saying. She told me she needed to confirm some facts in the next few minutes since the paper was going to press. She asked me my age, whether I was a member of the Sydenham Society and if I was opposed to the demolition of the building.
I was totally startled to read in the News Shopper that the Society was requesting listing - absolutely not true. Also I was amazed to read that I thought that listing the pub was "a last ditch effort to save the Greyhound" because it absolutely can't be described as that. The campaign to save the Greyhound is only just getting underway.
Hope this helps.
Yep, that clears it up, just a miss communication, the paper accidentaly got your number and asked if you were a member of the Sydenham Society, happens to me all the time, Doh, how did they get my number ?
What about the " almost always end up as fast food outlets etc " , I am keen to know those examples of which there are many so I can add them to my objections.
Sorry if I appear cynical, but some others here obviously have similar views to I.
Regards
What about the " almost always end up as fast food outlets etc " , I am keen to know those examples of which there are many so I can add them to my objections.
Sorry if I appear cynical, but some others here obviously have similar views to I.
Regards
No, the News Shopper had my number because of other local stories I have been involved with on behalf of the Sydenham Society. Sydenham Town regulars will know that I have run a recent campaign against cuts in rail services. I have made comments to the News Shopper about this and Sydenham Road regeneration which have appeared in the local press recently. On both these occasions the News Shopper has contacted me, not the other way around. It's hardly surprising since they are a local newspaper looking for local stories and I'm involved in local issues.
It's surely hardly surprising that journalists have the names and telephone numbers of local people like me, is it? The paper also had comments from a local councillor, a local trader and Liam Curran who is running a borough-wide campaign on pub closures and was doing so long before the Greyhound issue arose.
The News Shopper phoned me on this occasion because Pat Trembath was visiting her daughter in mid Wales at the time. Yes the journalist did ask for my age and whether I was a member of the Sydenham Society when she phoned.
If I had rang the News Shopper myself or the Sydenham Society had been trying to list the building I would not be ashamed of this or try to deny it. Why should I? I'm active in a campaign to stop the destruction of a local landmark.
I'm very unclear what exactly I've done that is suspicious or underhand.
I am perfectly willing to give you recent and apt local examples of where A3 listing involving the destruction of local landmarks has turned into something "far inferior" to what was originally intended. However, I have promised that this information would not be posted until after local issues to do with the Greyhound site have been resolved. Those issues will become apparent to everyone in the next two to three weeks.
In the meantime, I am very happy to meet you and share this information with you directly. Please PM me and we can meet.
It's surely hardly surprising that journalists have the names and telephone numbers of local people like me, is it? The paper also had comments from a local councillor, a local trader and Liam Curran who is running a borough-wide campaign on pub closures and was doing so long before the Greyhound issue arose.
The News Shopper phoned me on this occasion because Pat Trembath was visiting her daughter in mid Wales at the time. Yes the journalist did ask for my age and whether I was a member of the Sydenham Society when she phoned.
If I had rang the News Shopper myself or the Sydenham Society had been trying to list the building I would not be ashamed of this or try to deny it. Why should I? I'm active in a campaign to stop the destruction of a local landmark.
I'm very unclear what exactly I've done that is suspicious or underhand.
I am perfectly willing to give you recent and apt local examples of where A3 listing involving the destruction of local landmarks has turned into something "far inferior" to what was originally intended. However, I have promised that this information would not be posted until after local issues to do with the Greyhound site have been resolved. Those issues will become apparent to everyone in the next two to three weeks.
In the meantime, I am very happy to meet you and share this information with you directly. Please PM me and we can meet.
DC - I know Barry's number - as does anybody willing to search this forum. The local press know mine as webmaster. I often get calls from the press and I'm sure Barry as a somewhat more active member of the community gets even more.Dutch Cow wrote:Yep, that clears it up, just a miss communication, the paper accidentaly got your number and asked if you were a member of the Sydenham Society, happens to me all the time,
I am uncomfortable with the way your words might suggest otherwise. If you know something then please say it outright.
Admin
Last edited by admin on 4 Sep 2007 09:03, edited 1 time in total.
personally i have no faith in the councillers and the people charged with any new development ..it would be a travesty if the building were demolshed..i doubt the developers have any real concern on what the locals think ...its the kew word consultation that we hear all the time in the public sector ..." we have consulted with the public about the closure of the local police station but we are going ahead anyway ..blah blah blah "... the greyhound is an iconic building that stands boldly on a prime location that people associate with sydenham..
-
Steve Grindlay
- Posts: 606
- Joined: 4 Oct 2004 05:07
- Location: Upper Sydenham
Just to set the record straight, the Sydenham Society has had no involvement with the present application to English Heritage for listing the Greyhound. I know this because I know the person who prepared and submitted the application. He not a member of the Syd Soc and he is acting alone, although he has my support and that of the others (one or two Syd Soc members, the rest not) with whom he has discussed the proposal. He is, to use his own words, "just a concerned local who is upset by all the recent pub closures and wants to do something about it". He, like me, believes strongly that we should do all that is reasonable to protect the Greyhound both as a building and a pub.