The Greyhound to Close!
I'm with Muddy Waters on this; a pub is a community asset and just because I dont use it doesn't mean I wont regret it closing. It always seems reasonably busy so Im sure it is economically viable. Sure there is a housing shortage in the borough, but Im sure there are plenty of other places they could build.
Why would the Pub company sell a pub that was financially viable and busy and so well patronised by all the locals and used as a community focal point? Pubs are closing because lifestyles have changed and people do not use them as much as in the past. If Pubs were in such demand by the populace the pub companies would not sell them, surely?
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nork1
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Pubs are closing because developers know they can make an offer that the brewery/owners can't refuse and still make a huge profit by knocking the existing pub down and cramming as many 'luxury' 1 bedroom rabbit hutches on it then flogging them for 200 grand apiece. It's nothing to do with how popular a pub is, it's 'the market'.Dutch Cow wrote:Why would the Pub company sell a pub that was financially viable and busy and so well patronised by all the locals and used as a community focal point? Pubs are closing because lifestyles have changed and people do not use them as much as in the past. If Pubs were in such demand by the populace the pub companies would not sell them, surely?
While we're at it let's sell a few other 'community focal points' like churches and mosques to developers. There's plenty of money to be made and sod the locals.
I have recorded it on my PC. If admin wants a copy I will gladly send him one (11meg divx file) or whatever format he wants it in ......maybe he could post it somewhere??????????????
It was different from the lunchtime edition
UPLOADED HERE (it will be removed in the next few days)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6XyHtneNe8
It was different from the lunchtime edition
UPLOADED HERE (it will be removed in the next few days) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6XyHtneNe8
Last edited by The Eagle on 7 Aug 2007 18:10, edited 3 times in total.
There are two clips - both BBC and ITV have been here today and I'm pretty sure the story will be on again on both channels' late night news bulletins (BBC1 is around 10.25; ITV some time between 10.30-11). Both journalists linked the story of the 9 pubs that have closed in the area with the CAMRA beer festival that is on this week at Earls Court; the chief executive of CAMRA is interviewed in both and he says that pubs are falling victim to rising property prices. At the moment unless a building is listed boroughs have few powers to prevent change of use or demolition (if the building is free-standing, like the Greyhound). Political pressure may help though - if you haven't yet signed the 'Save the Greyhound' petition in the Kirkdale Bookshop please do so!
Many thanks seeing as I missed it! But why are you going to remove it in a few days!?The Eagle wrote:I have recorded it on my PC. If admin wants a copy I will gladly send him one (11meg divx file) or whatever format he wants it in ......maybe he could post it somewhere??????????????
It was different from the lunchtime edition
Is there not all ready a church converted into flats on Sydenham Road ? how was that allowed to happen? Who are these peole that will pay £200k for a one bed rabbit hutch ? They should go and live some where else and leave The Greyhound as it is, we dont want any one moving into the area that are not "local's" like us having all been born and bred herenork1 wrote:Pubs are closing because developers know they can make an offer that the brewery/owners can't refuse and still make a huge profit by knocking the existing pub down and cramming as many 'luxury' 1 bedroom rabbit hutches on it then flogging them for 200 grand apiece. It's nothing to do with how popular a pub is, it's 'the market'.Dutch Cow wrote:Why would the Pub company sell a pub that was financially viable and busy and so well patronised by all the locals and used as a community focal point? Pubs are closing because lifestyles have changed and people do not use them as much as in the past. If Pubs were in such demand by the populace the pub companies would not sell them, surely?
While we're at it let's sell a few other 'community focal points' like churches and mosques to developers. There's plenty of money to be made and sod the locals.
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nork1
- Posts: 287
- Joined: 9 Jul 2006 12:49
- Location: Banned myself - can't be bothered with the Greg/Ulysses show anymore
Dutch Cow wrote:Is there not all ready a church converted into flats on Sydenham Road ? how was that allowed to happen? Who are these peole that will pay £200k for a one bed rabbit hutch ? They should go and live some where else and leave The Greyhound as it is, we dont want any one moving into the area that are not "local's" like us having all been born and bred here
It's nothing to do with 'locals' or not letting anyone born and bred in, although judging by the '
' that was obviously a sarcastic comment so I'll assume you're happy that the Greyhound in it's present form is going.The people who pay 200K for a flat are city workers who want easy access to London - they're willing to pay it and so create the demand.
OK, let developers demolish all the pubs, build more flats and rip the heart out of the place. Why stop at the Greyhound? Let's bulldoze the Dolphin and see what the keyboard warriors on here think.
Ever been to Canada Water? Full of 'professionals' who pay 200K for a rabbit hutch but not a pub in sight, it's hardly a vibrant community... they don't contribute anything to the area because there's nothing there to contribute to, there's nowhere to go, it's soulless.
No, No, I dont believe that everything should make way for housing at all. Is there not a pub next door to the Greyhound ? and a few further down Kirkdale the Windmill etc and the the other way the Two Halfs and the Dolphin ? Whats happend to the Man of Kent? Has that gone for housing to developers ? Sydenham and its surrounds is far from sterile and ther are plenty of bars and eateries close by. It would be nice if the Greyhound could stay but I think its had its day, its scruffy as a gateway to the area and is dominated by a tar mac car park. Lets face it, if it was different to that why has it not been listed?
Thing is Dutch Cow, it may not be a great gateway visually but I doubt a block of flats will be either. yes there is the Railway, but it has no garden or outdoor area, while the former carpet shop that is the Two Halfs is a hellish venue IMO. Yes the Man of Kent has gone to residential with a bit of retail at the front, although that block seems like mission impossible for retailers. I suppose the Prince Alfred could be next. I went past the Greyhound tonight and it appeared very busy, where will all those people go? The city workers who pay £200k for a rabbit hatch wont be the type who frequent what few local pubs we will have left; they will have their after work drinks in the City wine bars and pubs as they always have.
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nork1
- Posts: 287
- Joined: 9 Jul 2006 12:49
- Location: Banned myself - can't be bothered with the Greg/Ulysses show anymore
Following that logic the Dolphin should've been flattened 2 years ago. Not exactly a shining beacon to most of the punters on this board was it? The Swan in CP was a dump, an eyesore and should've razed it before it became the Bluebottle/Westow House but now look at it - packed. The White Hart was an embarassment of a pub - could do better, prime housing position, bring in the bulldozers... ever tried getting a seat in there on a Friday/Saturday night?Dutch Cow wrote:It would be nice if the Greyhound could stay but I think its had its day, its scruffy as a gateway to the area and is dominated by a tar mac car park.
Yes, there IS a pub next door, The Railway - how long before they're made an offer they can't refuse?
What exactly do you mean by 'had it's day'? Not a gastro pub? Not attracting the right sort of people? You just don't like it? 'Had it's day' is hardly a reason to demolish the place. I was there earlier this evening - a Tuesday - and it was lively enough... a few quid spent on it would make it as good as anything CP has to offer.
Last edited by nork1 on 8 Aug 2007 21:41, edited 1 time in total.
I take your points Simon and Nork, this is a discussion; however, the Dolphin is not the Gateway to Sydenham and never fell in to external dissrepair from my recollection, (ive drunk in it and the lion and the greyhound for 20 years). I have never been in the two halves, so can not comment, maybe some decent management would sort it out ?
Any way on a lighter note , surely all these city type rabbit hutch dwellers with more money than sense will frequent the new Greyhound Pub, bring money to the area and will please Gregg W as there would be more ABC 1s to up the census statistics ! ( Humour, please)
Any way on a lighter note , surely all these city type rabbit hutch dwellers with more money than sense will frequent the new Greyhound Pub, bring money to the area and will please Gregg W as there would be more ABC 1s to up the census statistics ! ( Humour, please)
I am removing it as I would not like someone uploading something of me without my permission. It is a current topic so I will leave it a few days after that I will remove it. If anyone wants a copy of it I will glady send them it as long as their mailbox can take a file of 12 meg. Or I can put it on a site where it CAN be downloaded.Falkor wrote:Many thanks seeing as I missed it! But why are you going to remove it in a few days!?The Eagle wrote:I have recorded it on my PC. If admin wants a copy I will gladly send him one (11meg divx file) or whatever format he wants it in ......maybe he could post it somewhere??????????????
It was different from the lunchtime edition
Falkor
On a different issue, I was having a clear out the other day and found three old pictures of Sydenham, including one of the Greyhound (with two horses and carriage out side); the other opposite the Greyhound (showing station and London and South Western Bank); and the other showing down Sydenham High St from the bridge) if you don't have this PM me with your email address and I will send them to you
I have to say that I'm still not happy about the Greyhound closing - it is after all a historic site in a key location, and I'm sure that there are many publicans out there more than capable of refurbished it sympathetically and ensuring that they get a good return on their investment.
That said the site is an attractive one for developers (much more so than for other pubs in the area) with the large car park and the station next door in an up-and-coming area. I think in principle (depending on the designs etc) that building on the car park would be OK, as would be knocking down some of the less historic parts of the building. I also think that the people living in any new flats could play a role (albeit relatively minor) in revitalising our high street by means of their spending power.
I think that rather than chaining ourselves to the bulldozers, we should consider what is the best we can realistically hope for. Which bits of the pub should be retained, and which can be demolished? How large should any building on the car park be? What should any new development look like? We don't have to accept any old rubbish!
Finally, whilst I don't think that the profit motive should rule supreme and that wider social values (such as developing community spirit) are of great importance, I'm a little sceptical of the argument that all pub closures are bad news. For a start, the number of pubs in a particular area is not set in stone and has and will vary as times change. If some close, this can result in those surviving pubs getting more custom, resulting in a busier, livelier atmosphere, and greater returns for owners (who after all have a living to make, and need money to invest in essential refurbishment etc). Those pubs that have closed in the area recently have done a rather poor job of attracting potential customers - not having an ASBO I didn't think I'd feel too much at home in the Man of Kent or the Fox and Hounds. And many people don't like going to pubs regardless of how nice they are, and would prefer to mix with their neighbours in other places such as sports clubs or coffee shops.
That said the site is an attractive one for developers (much more so than for other pubs in the area) with the large car park and the station next door in an up-and-coming area. I think in principle (depending on the designs etc) that building on the car park would be OK, as would be knocking down some of the less historic parts of the building. I also think that the people living in any new flats could play a role (albeit relatively minor) in revitalising our high street by means of their spending power.
I think that rather than chaining ourselves to the bulldozers, we should consider what is the best we can realistically hope for. Which bits of the pub should be retained, and which can be demolished? How large should any building on the car park be? What should any new development look like? We don't have to accept any old rubbish!
Finally, whilst I don't think that the profit motive should rule supreme and that wider social values (such as developing community spirit) are of great importance, I'm a little sceptical of the argument that all pub closures are bad news. For a start, the number of pubs in a particular area is not set in stone and has and will vary as times change. If some close, this can result in those surviving pubs getting more custom, resulting in a busier, livelier atmosphere, and greater returns for owners (who after all have a living to make, and need money to invest in essential refurbishment etc). Those pubs that have closed in the area recently have done a rather poor job of attracting potential customers - not having an ASBO I didn't think I'd feel too much at home in the Man of Kent or the Fox and Hounds. And many people don't like going to pubs regardless of how nice they are, and would prefer to mix with their neighbours in other places such as sports clubs or coffee shops.