Hello All. I'm planning to open a new venue in Sydenham area and I'd like to do some mini market research first. Would be absolutely fantastic if you could help me.
Do you think there is enough cafes/restaurants in Sydenham? What sort of place would you like the most? Would you pay 10 pounds for a nice healthy lunch?
I'd like it to be a place for those who appreciate good atmosphere, good food, good music and generally good quality in life
I'm really looking forward to hearing from you. Thanks
Most people in Sydenham do not have 10 quid to spend on lunch.
If you mean 10 pounds for a main course at lunchtime - then no, probably I wouldn't, unless it was exceptional, and even then I would not do it every day or even week.
But if you mean 10 for a 3 course meal or some other deal like that then maybe, but again not every day.
What do you have in mind? and are you for real or just trolling?
user100 wrote:Most people in Sydenham do not have 10 quid to spend on lunch.
I think it may be more accurate to say "Most people in Sydenham choose not to spend 10 quid on lunch".
Most people in Sydenham at lunchtime live in or near Sydenham and can eat a splendid meal at home for much less. Many are prepared to pay that or more in the evening or at the weekend. That is not just for the food but for the occasion. The Dolphin, I think, struggles in weekday lunchtimes. Sunday lunchtimes are quite another matter. That is a very social occasion.
That didn't exist before The Dolphin re-opened. The upcoming Blue Mountain mixture of cafe/delicatessen may help tempt more lost souls from the Thorpes to become more social and build trade for quality social eating and drinking.
Sydenham has a more diverse mixture of rich, poor & n'between than most places in London. Labelling Sydenham as 'poor' is about as misleading as to call it 'middle class'.
When I say most people in Syd do not have 10 quid to spend on lunch, I mean that most people in Syd cannot afford to spend 10 quid on their daily lunch. I don't literally mean that they don't have 10 quid.
I still stand by my statement.
If you asked a representative sample of sydenhamites, young, old, rich, poor, with / without a lot of spare disposable income, most would tell you that 10 pounds is quite a bit more than they would spend on buying lunch. The mean and median spends would be much lower I think it is fair to guess.
I think that's what the OP is interested in knowing.
Even to refine it further by asking - are there enough Sydenhamites who would buy a 10 quid lunch regularly enough in Sydenham to justify opening a venue with a menu based around 10 pound lunches - I think the answer is no.
I have worked in many places all over London, including in the square mile which has probably some of the people with the highest disposable incomes in London, and most (not all) people do not regularly spend 10 quid on their lunch.
I think the OP would be better advised to have some more inexpensive options IMHO.
I would not label Sydenham as a poor area. Everyone knows it has a mixture of social classes. Moreover, the middle classes are not limited to the Thorpes, nor are the Thorpes the most desirable roads in Sydenham, IMHO.
I agree with user100, even when I worked in an investment bank in Canary Warf, nobody spent 10 quid on a regular lunch. Sure people would occasionally spend more than that in a restaurant (especially when it was being expensed), but there were plenty of places to sit down to a decent lunch for less than a tenner.
However, I suspect that Wiolo isn’t serious about opening a café here because most of his/her questions have been long debated in previous threads and the lack of details in the initial post.
Wiolo, if you are serious then I'm sure we'd be interested to know what you have in mind.
I think it may be missing the point to ask 'would people in Sydenham pay £10 on lunch'.
If you want my opinion the simple facts are:
The prices for food/drinks must be fair to reflect the quality of the raw materials but the price should not be the starting point - it should be the other way round ie. start with the quality of the products (organic, free range, locally sourced, fair trade, imaginative, etc.) and I think you'll find people will spend their money.
There is big demand for quality venues (early mornings for the commuters, lunchtimes for all the mums and kids, and evenings for everyone). We have one cafe/deli of this type coming which is a dead cert to be a success - and I am certain there is room for more.
Thank you so much for all your replies. I'm at the moment thinking of the area where I'd like to open my cafe. I'm based in Brockley and I'm concidering only south-east London as I'm fed up with comuting (I work in east London and spend two hours on the Tube and trains every day).
I am aware that hardly anybody spends a tenner on lunch every day. I should have been more precise in my question. What I meant is, would you prefer to go to Mc Donald's and have a Saturday lunch for 10 quid there, or rather have a piece of quiche and greek salad with a glass of wine?
I'm thinking of opening sort of "arty" cafe, open till late, where you could meet friends in the evening, listen to good music come to a concert, see good pictures on walls, maybe buy healthy organic fresh food and generally enjoy good quality of everything you get there.
Any more suggestions?
Thanks again for your help.
Sounds fantastic Wiola - go for it! But presume you are aware that the Blue Mountain cafe will shortly open up near to Cobbs Corner? Perhaps something more central would be good - eg the HSBC bank premises on the corner of Venner Rd where there is the possibility of outdoor seating. Have you contacted Julie Sutch, Sydenham's town centre manager?
“come to a concert” – now that would be something new and exciting, an arty café with live music on a regular / semi-regular basis. Yep I could see that working. The art exhibitions in places like Kirkdale books and the Dartmorth Arms show that there is interest in art here.
What do you mean by “good music”? jazz/blues/classical/dance/r’n’b/indie rock or open mic evenings?
thanks again for your replies. Big Ben, Who is Julie Sutch? What does she do in town centre? Do you think she would be able to help me? I haven't found a place yet, still looking so if you have something in mind, please let me know.
kster, i don't want to specify at this point what kind of music will be played in my cafe. all i know is that it wouldn't be anything heavy. personally i like jazz in all forms, especially mixed with other kinds of music; folk, electro, but I'm open for other styles.
I would be most greatful if you could suggest any places for rent in Sydenham. I look forward to all your opinions
You may find http://www.sydenham.org.uk/shopshop/ helpful. It's a bit out of date as some of the units have now been let. Nevertheless, it should give you an idea of some of the commercial property agents operating in the area, and no doubt you can search their websites for vacant units.
This subject has been discussed extensively on the forum in recent months, so I would suggest (if you haven't already done so) trawling through past threads. The Forest Hill forum has also had a number of similar discussions, so well worth looking there too. If you want to bounce ideas around then I'm sure you should get some helpful feedback.
Sydenham could do with some more places to eat in the evening and good quality coffee shops. I definately think theres a demand - its the one area of the high street that is not over saturated. The high street is dominated by pound shops and takeaways and I think anything else that is not that will do very well!
Will the Blue Mountain opening one end and The Dolphin the other hopefully we can fill the dots in the middle and end up with a very vibrant high street.
Go for it Wiola! I think your model sounds great and the more decent eateries we have in Sydenham the better. I think your quiche, salad and wine lunch sounds like good value and a pleasant alternative to everything else in sydenham. Just make sure you find a buggy friendly venue and you will be mobbed!
I like the idea of your cafe. Sounds similar to Moonbow Jakes which is a nice place to hang out - I've only been a couple of times but mean to go more!
I think tenner for a lunch is a lot on a "school day"! On a weekend meeting friends though I would probably pay that for food and a drink.
