Has anyone heard that the Greyhound Pub and it's land has been sold to developers?
Apparently they plan on knocking it down and building flats. Fortunately the council have rejected the first 4 plans submitted.
I know the Greyhound doesn't have a great reputation, but it is a Sydenham landmark and I think it would be almost criminal to knock it down. It would be like knocking down St Barts.
I do hope it can be saved, but I guess the development company will do thier best to build as many flats as the can.
The Gateway to Sydenham, just wouldn't be the same.
Jules - the Syd Soc are on the case! At the link below you will find the article I've written for the Sydenham Society newsletter which I hope explains where we are right now. Interestingly I spoke yesterday to Gavin Stamp (the architectural historian who lives in Forest Hill, currently presenting a programme on C5 about re-tracing the route of the Orient Express) who agrees that it is both a 'landmark' and a 'flagship' building - although sadly not of listable quality because it has been so mucked around with by previous owners over the years. My article is at this link:
Thats quite negative. As bad as the Greyhound is in terms of a pubic house at present I dont think pulling it down and replacing it with flats is the answer. It still has character and is a landmark for Sydenham that most people are aware of and recognise. Destroying it and putting up more housing is'nt going to do anything to promote the area at all. I agree the roundabout is a pathetic sight but it is'nt going anywhere so we have to accept that. I think some grass flowers plants etc would make it a lot more tolerable providing the council maintain it. I suppose that might be too much to expect in reality but hey, you never know.
Concerning the roundabout, I would point out that the Living Streets consultation into the look of the high street is now well underway. When asked about the Cobb's Corner roundabout at a Sydenham Regeneration meeting, their coordinator for once broke his usual diplomatic silence and announced "that's definitely got to change!"
I would be amazed if it still remains in its present form when new plans for consultation on Sydenham Road are unveiled.
Talking about the consultation, does anyone have an update? If I remember rightly they did say that they would get plans out and try for the next round of consultation before the summer, but failing that the review of plans was to be in September.
Were Atkins confirmed as architects? Do we have a date for a first look at the plans? I’m keen to see what is in store for us (assuming that TfL are kind enough to cough up the cash).
The draft plans for consultation have inevitably slipped but are due to be presented to the community at the next Sydenham Regeneration Partnership Group meetiing, chaired by Chris Best, sometime (date not yet set) in September.
After the first publication I believe there will be further public workshops to allow local residents to comment on the draft, which I presume will also be in September. Only then can the draft plans be worked up so that Lewisham can make a bid to Transport for London for the funding for the physical improvements agreed as necessary to improve pedestrain flow in Sydenham Road.
With regard to the Greyhound, bad management and lack of interest by a number of breweries who have owned the Greyhound over the past dozen years or so is no excuse to knock down this pub. Demolition should not be justified by dereliction.
Just to echo what others have said - I've got no attachment to the Greyhound in its current guise, but it would be very sad to lose such a historic building, and it would be lovely to see it sympathetically restored.
I'm sure if it hadn't been damaged and changed so much it would be worth of listing - what a tragedy!
I am with The Eagle on this one. The sooner they knock it down the better.
Having had the misfortune of living behind the Greyhound - (which I assume all those that have gone on about it being an 'historic building' and the 'Gateway to Sydenham' do not), for nigh on 26 years all I can say is hoorah!
So what if it is going to be developed into flats? On a development that size they are duty bound to incorporate some social housing. A good opportunity for some of our younger local people (hopefully) to be rehoused at affordable rents, in the area they were brought up in - or thereabouts.
I do wish people would stop banging on about what a wonderful building the Greyhound is - WAS is the appropriate tense here. Have you looked closely at the crumbling woodwork, the none existing down pipes or half broken ones that drip rain straight onto the payvement in Spring HIll?
After numerous tenant landlords have had a go at turning this pathetic place into a money spinner and failing miserably, after numerous brewerys have half heartedly put a little money into nothing more than cosmetic lip service to improving it, it is time to let it go. Good riddance!
How about having the droning noise of their kitchen fan preventing you from actually enjoying the peaceful envronment of your own garden or even, when they forget to turn it off, preventing you from having your bedroom window open because you wouldn't be able to sleep above the racket?
So, I say to The Sydenham Society, and all the others who think they are doing Sydenham a favour by ranting on about keeping this monster - you try living within a stones throw from it - you cope with the gangs of young people revving their cars in the carpark immediately behind you and screeching with excitement because it has topped 20C. I think you would soon change your minds.
Whilst there is some architectural merit to the front of the Greyhound, the back and sides hold none I am afraid. There have been additions and partial demolitions over the years and as such it really does not merit all the appreciation that is being heeped upon it. A sensible redevelopment, pehaps for housing and retaining the existing facade might be an option, but would increase the cost of the development and reduce the nuber of overall units that could be built.
It is also all very well saying that if only there was better management all would be well. I am sorry to say that that pub has a fixed client group and all attempts to change it has failed. The Dolphin has been a success but it was a matter of people with vision taking the risk anbd closing it for an extensive period and then relaunching in in a different guise. I am afraid that that happens only to rarely. So local people will have to continue to live with the nuisance that Gillyjp describes and frankly that is not acceptable.
In the end I am afraid we much recognise that the site as a whole will be redeveloped. The question is therefore how we ensure that that is done well and properly. A much better modern gateway building could be contructed perhaps echoing the design and shape of the old Cobbs building but using modern materials to make a tribute not a pastiche. There is also a need to ensure that the site as a whole is build to the scale of the surrounding area and to ensure there is parking to reflect need so as to avoid parking in surrounding roads already overwhelmed by commuters and patrons of LA fitness. And finally there is no need for a new pub on the site, which if it is new build will be a plastic soulless place that will only attract people by catering to the lowest common denominator. Better perhaps to do a proper regeneration job and build in facilites for small retail units and cafe/restaurant use that would lead to real improvements to the area and attract trade and money as well.
gillyjp
Maybe you should have thought twice before moving into a property next to a pub, what did you expect?
If you want peace and tranquility in your garden maybe you ought to move to the country.
That is the sort of very insulting remark I did not expect to see on this site. You should perhaps be aware that the majority of property to the rear of the Greyhound is Social Housing, owned by either the Council or Housing Associations. I am afraid therefore that you do not (or certainly more that 3 years ago) have any choice as to where you are housed. The rule was one refusal and you lose your priority and if you are homeless than you do not want to end up on the streets. Please get your facts right before putting forward opinionated and ignorant opinions
Jules - yes well we are not all as fortunate to be able to afford to buy our own properties and choose where we live. SimonO is indeed correct in his understanding of the varied mix of tenancies in most of the proeprties surrounding the Greyhound. Whilst not wishing to expose the circumstances around why or how I came to live where I do, none the less it has been my home (not bourne out of choice) for many years now. I have come to love my home and I surely merit the same consideration as anyone else no matter what the circumstances.
I echo SimonO's thoughts completely - before you go sprouting off about someones 'choices' - make sure that your facts are correct - they may not have been in such a fortunate postion to choose, as you clearly think they are.
And one more thing - and I am very angry about Jules comments as I am sure you can tell - that those comments reflect the middle class bias of this site (and yes I am middle class, but at least recognise the fact and recognise that not everyone, and perhaps the majotity of people in the area, are not, and that not everyone owns their own home and has the choice that goes with it).
Looking back at the post that started this - from Jules - I think the thing that is 'criminal' is not the thought of knocking down the Greyhound as was the quote, but likening The Greyhound pub to St Bartholomews church - now that almost borders on blasphemous.
Why has the argument degenerated into the tenure or otherwise of accomodation. Surely everyone agrees this site and pub are an eyesore.
My understanding is that the new proposals contain a continental type bar cafe at the front with flats to the rear protecting the existing residents. This surely satisfies all aspects; all we need our planners to do is to insist on a contribution for a new flowered round-about and everyone should be happy
Yes Ratty give me my flowers on the roundabout and i'll let them knock down the pub!
Once they took away the actual statues of the greyhounds i knew it was "Fated" because they were part of the history of the pub and as far as i was concerned the best part!
1. knocking down / converting pubs to residential use is a classic symptom of gentrification of an area.
Just another sign, in case you doubted it, that Sydenham, in property market terms, is a bona-fide 'up and coming' area. See also The Man of Kent.
(This is merely an observation, not necessarily a value judgement that converting pubs to residential use is a good or bad thing.)
2. If they decide to put in a cafe/bar at the front, I hope they leave enough room for a well-designed outdoor eating/drinking area at the front (not too close to the roundabout either, as it currently strikes me as not the most relaxing outdoor area with the traffic so precariously close).
When the original message says The Greyhound 'and its land' has been sold to developers, does that include the car park? If so, that is a huge piece of land.
Much as I hate to admit it, the pub (and the car park) are a bloody eyesore. The pub has gone steadily downhill since the Firkin chain took it over in the early Nineties. Before that - trust me - it really was a great pub. If it still had all the original (magnificent) bar fixtures in there now, then I would be on the side of those who want to save it. Unfortunately, when the original bar was ripped out, it was all done without any consultation and/or opposition. I know the atrium area, with the beautiful mosiac decoration, was kept - thanks to Sydenham Society (?) - but you cant even see it anymore.
I spent many fantastic nights in the pub, and it holds some treasured memories, so it really should mean more to me than it does for most.
The premises that are there now, though, have no bearing at all on the 'real' Greyhound, and - subject to seeing what they will replace it with - I would say level it.
