Cycling on Sydenham's pavements

[Eagle]

OK except I may have been wrong. Perhaps small children should not cycle on pavements.

Trouble is whatever we write or say no one will police it and nothing at all will happen.

If you deem to talk to the person you will probably get a lot of verbal and possibly physical abuse.

[Annie.]

All the time there is no real regulation for bikes ,the irresponsible will cause problems, we should probably have more defined/safer bike lanes,perhaps that would help.

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[Eagle]

I am not sure most of the local roads have room for cycle lanes, but good idea,

[stuart]

OK except I may have been wrong. Perhaps small children should not cycle on pavements.

Being below the age of criminal responsibility no action can be taken against them. It is arguable that until the young cyclist has complete control of the bike and some experience of traffic is is unwise they should 'mix-it' with vehicles on a busy road. One can also argue that their inexperience may also pose a danger to pedestrians on the pavement. The question for kids is should they ride in the road or the pavement - which is the less of the two evils in the absence of safe cycling routes and training we see in most other north european countries?

I don't ride on pavements and discourage it for adults but I encouraged my kids to use the pavements if they felt unsafe on the road when they were learning. Was I being prudent or irresponsible?

Trouble is whatever we write or say no one will police it and nothing at all will happen.

FPN of £30 are freely given by police. Indeed there have been many complaints they have been given too freely and in defiance of Home Office advice which is (to paraphrase) they should only be given where the cyclists is being irresponsible giving annoyance or endangering the pedestrian. They should not be given when it is a matter of safety. In other words the FPN is there to protect the pedestrian, it is not there to stop cyclists using the pavement if it causes no harm. Who could argue with that?

If you deem to talk to the person you will probably get a lot of verbal and possibly physical abuse.

I'm afraid taking anybody to task for irresponsible behavior in the street is quite likely to end up that way and just further antagonise the situation. I don't try and reason with errant drivers/cyclists/pedestrians anymore. There are some shocking Youtube videos of what can happen.

Stuart

[SE26bloke]

I'm afraid taking anybody to task for irresponsible behavior in the street is quite likely to end up that way and just further antagonise the situation. I don't try and reason with errant drivers/cyclists/pedestrians anymore. There are some shocking Youtube videos of what can happen.Stuart

This is part of why I responded sarcastically at the original suggestion of taking photos of 'offenders' (the main reason being that it's a totally impractical idea). Not only will you probably get a torrent of abuse for pointing out the error of their ways, you'd possibly end up needing hospital treatment. I know - I did.

[Annie.]

Thats terrible SE26bloke,
is there an answer to the problem? Or do we just give in to anti social behaviour again?

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[SE26bloke]

Well the answer certainly isn't taking photos unless you're 6'4" with karate training.
6 stitches and permanent scarring after being punched in the mouth by someone with a blade between their knuckles when THEY were totally at fault is not something I'd recommend.

[Annie.]

Did the person get caught?
I think its time for zero tolerance for all anti social behaviour, give in to one thing and the boundaries move.
They think we will accept their ways if we dont protest.

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[Eagle]

I agree zero tolerance. Anti social behavior is a disgrace.

[SE26bloke]

Did the person get caught?
I think its time for zero tolerance for all anti social behaviour, give in to one thing and the boundaries move.
They think we will accept their ways if we dont protest.

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No they didn't get caught because I didn't report it - I was more concerned about getting my mouth stitched up. Plenty of witnesses but a TOTAL lack of interest from the great British public - nobody batted an eyelid. Nobody would've got the bloke's number anyway, they pulled up a long way down the road before returning on foot.

Why is it only now that people are screaming for zero tolerance? Anti social behaviour isn't a new phenomenon. Maybe my rose tinted specs are faulty but I certainly don't remember living in a Utopian society when I was growing up in the '70's and '80's... if anything it was worse.

[stuart]

I'm afraid taking anybody to task for irresponsible behavior in the street is quite likely to end up that way and just further antagonise the situation. I don't try and reason with errant drivers/cyclists/pedestrians anymore. There are some shocking Youtube videos of what can happen.Stuart

This is part of why I responded sarcastically at the original suggestion of taking photos of 'offenders' (the main reason being that it's a totally impractical idea). Not only will you probably get a torrent of abuse for pointing out the error of their ways, you'd possibly end up needing hospital treatment. I know - I did.

I disagree SE26bloke. The Youtubes I alluded too were cases where cyclists were attacked by motorists and the police took no action. That was until they got the vids onto TV and finally embarrased the police into finding and prosecuting the thugs. Many cyclists now carry cams for their own protection and evidence in the case of incidents. Might be good if cars did it too.

Video is much better than photos. It provides more context and audio too. Shame that we should even be talking about this - but videoing in public places may be the best way of highlighting and bringing to justice dangerous criminal behaviour.

Stuart

[SE26bloke]

I disagree SE26bloke.

I'm a bit confused here! I've just backed up your assertion that confrontation can bring about undesired results (in my case hospitalisation).

[Annie.]

Quote-No they didn't get caught because I didn't report it - I was more concerned about getting my mouth stitched up. Plenty of witnesses but a TOTAL lack of interest from the great British public - nobody batted an eyelid. Nobody would've got the bloke's number anyway, they pulled up a long way down the road before returning on foot.

Why is it only now that people are screaming for zero tolerance? Anti social behaviour isn't a new phenomenon. Maybe my rose tinted specs are faulty but I certainly don't remember living in a Utopian society when I was growing up in the '70's and '80's... if anything it was worse.unquote

Excuse me for caring,you sound angry at the thought of people wanting better? I'm not " now screaming" for zero tolerance, I have said the same for years,perhaps if anyone had bothered to do anything about it in the 70 s 80s then it might not be so bad now,i was brought up in the mid 50s 60s it was not as bad then.there were limitations and bounderies!

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[SE26bloke]

Annie, I'm not angry at all and my comment about zero-tolerance is not aimed specifically at anyone. In fact I'm not disagreeing with you - I'm just wondering why this wasn't so much of an issue in the past when (in my opinion) things were just as bad.

[Annie.]

Its been an issue for at least the last 30 years,it should have been frowned upon then,its been left to its own devises and grown out of proportion,time to crack down, a society should only be prepared to take so much.
As I said , Zero tolerance should be used effectively.
Total disregard for each other,in fact,when I see a kindness occur I am so pleased,it shouldnt be like that,it should be the norm.

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[stuart]

I disagree SE26bloke.

I'm a bit confused here! I've just backed up your assertion that confrontation can bring about undesired results (in my case hospitalisation).

Road rage thugs tend to be a bit dim and don't notice little details like they are being videoed (modern cams are really tiny). Indeed it is best not to confront, but if they still insist on trying to knock your block off it is nice to have some evidence.

And yes you can't rely on bystanders. I was threatened with being hospitalised by such a dangerous thug outside Blue Mountain. No one came to my aid even though the guy was half my age and clearly in the wrong. I didn't have a camera, he got away with it. Videoed he would have probably been banged to rights. Or by posting it here might have discouraged people from patronising his local business (not Blue Mountain).

Stuart

[Annie.]

He would have nicked your camera and filmed you being beaten up,then put it on U Tube!

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[Eagle]

Stuart

So the thug owns a local business. Please give us a clue.

[stuart]

He would have nicked your camera and filmed you being beaten up,then put it on U Tube!

I've not seen any cases of that reported but I have seen videos of the victim asking the thug "say it again for YouTube" and watch the awful realisation, confusion and fast retreat. Thugs are cowards at heart.

Indeed if there is a next time and I still don't have a camera I might just try that. He won't know!

Stuart

[Hissing Syd]

I whole-heartedly agree that this is a big problem in Sydenham, not least of all because of the velocity that cyclists pick up when going down the hill.

A month or so ago I was walking past Wesley Hall with two heavy bags full of glass jars and bottles and thus unable to get out of the way quickly, when I realised there was a boy on a bike zooming straight towards me.

To my left was the road, full of heavy traffic - no escape there. Just to my right was a jogger coming at me with her headphones plugged in, unaware of the cyclist hurtling down behind her. With nowhere to move to I braced myself for impact and held out my arm. The guy put his brakes on and between us - me grabbing his crossbar and him putting his feet down - we both skidded into the wall and I just about a avoided a full-on collision.

To his credit, the boy quickly said, "sorry, man," before moving off, but obviously I was quite shaken and, as has already been noted, for the elderly, the consequences of situations like this are horrific.

I'm not a motorist or a cyclist - I walk and use public transport, so forgive me if this suggestion is oblivious to basic road law, but would it be feasible to consider a dedicated cycle path on Sydenham Road? It really is that steep hill that I think is a big part of the problem.

On a separate and positive note, I took a bus to Peckham yesterday, via my old stamping ground of New Cross and Lewisham. I returned home with one, abiding thought: my god, Sydenham is lovely!