Fairlawn Park area before and after the war

[regoneil]

May I join in this discussion, which I have found so interesting and informative, and add a little of the background to the period between the wars.
The arrival of the gasworks at Bell Green certainly changed the plans for housing in the area from that which was envisaged, following the building of the Crystal Palace. Housing had to be provided for the workers at, what later became known as, the “South Suburban Gas Works”.
Rows of “2 up and 2 down” houses were built in the roads spreading out from the works, to accommodate the employees, with their families.
Then WW1 came, with the loss that most industrial areas suffered, of so many of the male population not returning, giving rise to many “one parent” families needing accommodation which resulted in many of the small dwellings becoming two family homes.
The majority of homes in Lower Sydenham fell into this category with many sharing a communal front door, “Two knocks for upstairs and one for downstairs”. Some, as in Fairlawn Park, were modified as two self contained flats with separate entrances and exits, hence the provision of outside staircases in many cases.
This is how it was when I attended school at St. Michaels in Champion Park between 1923 and 1934. AND, may I add, a very high majority of us kids were fatherless due to WW1.
In those days, school times were 8.50 to 12.00 with a 15 minute playtime, home for dinner and return at 1.50 until 4.30. Monday to Friday. A week off for Christmas, (New Year, as a Bank Holiday, was not recognised at that time) almost a week at Easter and four weeks summer holiday. Half term was a half a day, as was “Empire Day” when we all attended for assembly, sang the National Anthem and were sent home for a day off.
We left school at the age of fourteen unless we had won a scholarship to go for further education at other schools or colleges or had successfully won a Trade scholarship. At fourteen, the only choice of work was either a job at the gasworks or employment as a delivery boy to one of the many shops in the Sydenham Road, when a boy would be given a shop bike with a large basket on the front. Delivery boys were renowned for whistling the latest pop song to the inhabitants as they made their deliveries around the town.
As “kennyb2” so rightly stated, we kids could and did, play in the roads without any fear at all, as very few cars or lorries were in evidence at those times, plenty of horse and carts were to be encountered, but games were halted to let them pass. We had faith and respect for our seniors, teachers and the local Bobby, who would give us a cuff round the ear if we were caught scrumping or otherwise making a nuisance of ourselves. “Knocking down gingers” was a favourite sport of the time and if we were caught, well, the clip round the ear did us no harm and was received with respect.
Yes, there were small shops on most street corners and in many front parlours in the side streets; there were also quite a number of street traders making regular rounds, such as fishmongers, “rag-a-bone” men, tinkers and the like as well as the daily Baker’s roundsmen and the indispensable Milkman (twice a day) dispensing ½ pint, pints and quart bottles. I remember quite well helping our milkman on a Saturday morning, in the late 1920's, being allowed to hang on to the step at the back of the float and receiving a half pint in reward! Believe it or not, but the horse knew exactly where to stop and proceed without any instruction from the milkman.
The Postman would deliver three times a day, early morning, late morning and afternoon. Parcel post came at any time.
Happy days.
One other event that was most important, throughout those years between the wars, Sydenham relied on it’s time keeping from the “Gas-works Whistle” which sounded throughout the town at Twenty past seven in the morning, and again at half past seven. Again at midday and one o’clock and finally at 5pm. On the odd occasion (very seldom), if it didn’t sound, the whole town would be in confusion!

[tays]

Hi Reg

That's a real glimpse into the inter-war years in Sydenham. Do you have memories of the night the Crystal Palace burnt down? And did you visit it much before?

(Apologies if i've gone off topic here)

[regoneil]

Hello Tays,
Thanks for your comments re the years between the wars,
Yes, I remember the night the palace burned down, how could one forget?
I was working at a block of service flats in Buckingham Gate close to Buckingham Palace and was finishing at about 9pm, ready to cycle home to Sydenham, when a lift attendant called to me and asked if I lived near the Crystal Palace?
When I replied in the affirmative, he told me that it was on fire! I disbelieved him and said “How could it be as it is made of iron and glass" he invited me to come in the lift to the top floor and see for myself, and there it was, clear as a picture, the whole building alight from one end to the other.
I mounted my bike and sped off through Dulwich, heading for College Road and passing relays of fire engines pumping water from one to another up to the Palace.
On arrival at the Parade, I was stopped by police and told that I could go no further, so I retraced my steps back down to find another route to the southern end of the parade to view from that angle. It was all very bewildering and the crowds that gathered were equal to any event held in the past years. There were many crying at the sight and it was all just beyond belief.
I cycled down Anerly Hill and through Penge to arrive home in Sydenham to hear a commentary being given on the “wireless” and being informed that the blaze could be seen from airliners flying over the channel en route to Croydon.
My closing views were from the top of Southend Lane where one had a clear view of the whole incident.
Certainly, “A night to remember.”
The following morning I went back up West Hill (as it was called at the time) to view the “hosing down” and, strange as it may seem, there was a ceremony taking place, according to plan! Of the cutting of the first sod for the construction of the road racing track! But the posters on the hoardings surrounding the grounds told of the forthcoming “Caged Birds” exhibition, shortly to be held and of the “International Circus” due to commence on Boxing day!
I was 16, coming on 17 at the time, and like so many people, it seemed a tragic loss as so many folk of that era treasured so many happy memories of the days of the Crystal Palace.
I am happy to say that I have a wealth of memories of the Palace.

[tulse hill terry]

Delighted to hear your memories of growing up in Sydenham Reg.

Do you have any specific memories of the demolition and clearing of the Palace site, the auction of mementos etc. The 1957 sale of sculpture, the "closed lands." etc etc.

[tays]

Really fascinating Reg - thanks for your answer. Must've been an incredible sight. I remember seeing a photo in the Musuem before its recent makeover of a hoard of people being held back by police infront of the White Swan (Westow House) & the look of awe on their faces as they stared at the fire.

Did many local people visit the palace before it burnt down or was it mainly used for exhibitions & shows by then? I've heard the firework displays were still popular. Could people just go for a wander through the grounds if they didn't want to visit the Palace?

Great to hear these invaluable memories Reg.

[leenewham]

Wonderful posts Reg.

Just out of interest, did you live in Fairlawn Park? Were the allotments always there? Did you know who live din some of these places (I live in the road).

If you have any idea of what architectural details were in them I'd love to know as we are trying to restore some of the original features. I presume at some point all the houses there would have had railings instead of walls for instance. Any help or images of places both inside and out would be great!

I have a question for you too Reg. Do you approve of the scheme to rebuild the Crystal Palace?

[regoneil]

May I add a few comments to this subject?
Steve's picture depicting a bus is, without doubt taken from a point a few yards west of the junction of Sydenham Road and Kent House Road. I would hazard a guess that it was in the early twenties as I am confident that the bus was a number 75, a Tillings Steven petrol electric, there were only two services using that route through Sydenham at that time and the other was a number 2a (Lewisham the George to Golders Green via the Crystal Palace.)
Why a 75? Well the Tillings buses of that era were narrower than the General Omnibus Company's wider buses which ran on the route 2a.
Closer examination of the pictire shows the Cathlic Church in the background where it was located on the corner of Watlington Grove, before it was bombed. Closer examination one can see the bell high in the bell tower.
On the left of the picture one can see part of the Wesley Hall high in the background, In the far distance one can make out the shop on the eastern corner of Fairlawn Park, Collingwoods the butcher.
In the middle of the junction one can also see a horse trough which was located in the middle of the junction and remaned there until after WW2.
Ther were many horse troughs located within Sydenham and Forest Hill, one at Bell Green, another just past Chalk & Cox butchers at the bottom of West Hill, another at the Woodman and another at Bell Green at the junction of Perry Hill and Perry Vale.
A question has been asked regarding another picture taken from almost the same location as to whether it was WW1 or WW2. I can assure you that it was taken during WW2 as I can identify the street lights that can be seen. As a matter of interest, we were told when they were installed in the early 30's that they were an experimental test bed, as were a similar set installed in Stanstead Road Forest Hill. The very first fluorescent street lighting in the country.
They created quite a controversy with the womenfolk as they gave off a blue/green colour which played havoc with the ladies' make up. They were very bright as compared with the gas lighting they replaced. The lamp posts were very high and half way up there was an ordinary filament lamp installed that was automatically switched on at midnight to take over from the brilliant lanterns above
It should be noted that until the middle thirties, most of Sydenham and surrounding areas were served with gas until electricity gradually took over. It was rather amusing when the Gas Company opened up a showroom next door to the Electricity showroom in the Sydenham Road, opposite the State Cinema, the frontage being twice as wide as their rivals with huge gas lanterns outside. everything in the showroom was gas, so they claimed.
When the electricity came, confusion arose when one went to purchase a bulb as one was asked "which side of the Sydenham Road was it for", as on one side it was 200 volts and the other 230 volts.
The North side was under the watchful eyes of the police from Sydenham Police station in Dartmouth Road and the South side came under Penge Police Station sited at the Pawlene Arms.
There was a brickfield situated at the south side of Home Park but it was taken over in the Twenties when a tall chimney was built over a "dust destructor", as we knew it, which became quite a landmark but is now gone.
I hope this answers some questions.

It has been a while since I last came on the forum and I see that there are some questions for me, which I shall respond to shortly.

[leenewham]

Sadly, Reg passed away not long ago. I thought I'd share this photo a neighbour lent to us: