Hi
Quick appeal and then a bit of a grouch as I was involved in a road traffic accident at Bell Green on Sunday Feb 25. The entire traffic lights system was out around Savacentre/ Southend Lane/ Kangley Bridge Road and there was a collision between myself and another car as a result.
I entered Savacentre from the Southend Lane entrance at around 11.50am and the lights system was already out. I exited by the Southend Lane exit at around 12.45pm. The lights were still out when I left at around 12.45pm and this was when the accident happened.
Just wondering if anyone had a similar accident on Sunday Feb 25 or whether anyone saw the prang (between a red Nissan Micra and a blue Ford Fiesta) and is willing to come forward as a witness? Or whether anyone can just confirm for me that they were there and saw the whole lights system was out - including the lights that govern traffic going from Southend Lane onto Kangley Bridge Road?
The police do have confirmation that the lights were out, but the more evidence I can get the better.
It could have been much much worse but luckily no-one was hurt and there was only very minor damage to both cars involved.
However I did have my eight-month-old daughter in the car and this has forced me to think about the new proposals for the development at Bell Green. I am now starting to wonder if such a simple thing as a power failure to the lights at Bell Green can cause so much chaos and confusion as they did on Sunday, what's it going to be like when the road is made yet busier and more congested, when the junction becomes even bigger with yet more shops in that area? On Sunday cars were speeding by at a rate of knots regardless of the lack of lights. And the traffic just didn't stop coming - there wasn't a break in the relentless flow of people coming to Bell Green, leaving it, or just using it as a through route. Savacentre was packed to bursting on Sunday. Nice for Savacentre's wallet, but not for the safety of the rest of us. Surely there are too many people converging on the Bell Green area already, driving one another nuts and clogging up the roads? Wouldn't more just make it worse?
Sorry but I won't be going back to Savacentre. The exits are, I feel, treacherously dangerous if the lights fail again. And as said lights were out for over an hour (that I know of) on Sunday there's not even any guarantee that they'll be fixed with enough speed if they do fail to make the roads safe for customers and ordinary drivers coming to the area to shop.
Surely Savacentre should have (or would want to take on) some responsibility for the safety of their customers? And what ever happened to traffic police who used to come out and direct traffic at even the most minor junctions when lights were out years ago?
This is the first prang I've had in 16 years of accident free driving so I'm not the sort of person in the habit of colliding with other vehicles. Generally I think Sydenham's roads are annoyingly congested so pretty safe - no-one gets the opportunity to go fast enough to really trash their car or harm anyone else. But bringing bigger and more complex junctions into the area is a whole different ball game - and what is being proposed for Bell Green.
Anyway, I would be grateful to anyone who was around the area at about 11.50am-1pm on Sunday Feb 25 if they could drop me a line.
Bell GreenTraffic Lights Chaos - Sunday Feb 25
-
kiwi in sydenham
- Posts: 10
- Joined: 17 Jan 2007 11:47
- Location: silverdale
Thanks for the reply!
Wow, that means the lights were out for at least three and a quarter hours - if you saw them out as early as 9.45am and they were still out when I was involved in the prang at 12.45pm/ 1pm.
Sorry but knowing that makes me a bit nuts - kids and parents going to and fro on foot crossing the road there, people and children in cars, all put at risk for hours unecessarily...
When we called the police at the time of the incident they said they already knew the lights were out but if no-one was hurt they wouldn't come out to us! So obviously someone's gotta be treated as a sort of token 'sacrificial offering' before the cops will do anything to secure the area, I guess. Luckily it wasn't me or my partner or our eight-month-old dauhgter - but it could have been. Nice thought.
It would have been so easy to avoid the accident that happened on Sunday yet nobody bothered.
Makes you wonder what would happen if there was a serious incident in that area - if our local services can't even deal with a blown fuse or whatever it was that put the lights out on Sunday. Fantastic.
Sorry to be a misery, but it does make you think!
Best we look out for one another I guess - since the authorities seem either unable or unwilling to do it for us.
Wow, that means the lights were out for at least three and a quarter hours - if you saw them out as early as 9.45am and they were still out when I was involved in the prang at 12.45pm/ 1pm.
Sorry but knowing that makes me a bit nuts - kids and parents going to and fro on foot crossing the road there, people and children in cars, all put at risk for hours unecessarily...
When we called the police at the time of the incident they said they already knew the lights were out but if no-one was hurt they wouldn't come out to us! So obviously someone's gotta be treated as a sort of token 'sacrificial offering' before the cops will do anything to secure the area, I guess. Luckily it wasn't me or my partner or our eight-month-old dauhgter - but it could have been. Nice thought.
It would have been so easy to avoid the accident that happened on Sunday yet nobody bothered.
Makes you wonder what would happen if there was a serious incident in that area - if our local services can't even deal with a blown fuse or whatever it was that put the lights out on Sunday. Fantastic.
Sorry to be a misery, but it does make you think!
Best we look out for one another I guess - since the authorities seem either unable or unwilling to do it for us.
Diddn't see your collision, but when I passed through the junction motorists were taking extra caution. This is a huge problem across London when traffic lights go out of action. Contractors and not the Police are responsible for putting up warning signs and there are simply not enough Police to go around to do traffic control. I guess the area of Bell green would require quite a traffic officers to control traffic by hand signals, resources that the local police simply don't have.
Hi Chrise
Yes, I called Lewisham Council and they said Tfl are responsible for the maintenance of traffic lights, so it's not the council's problem. Naturally I looked at the Tfl website to see if there was a section where motorists could report faulty traffic lights, in case I should come across the problem again around Sydenham/ Forest Hill. I found nothing. Not a stitch. There was a lot of very dull info about the new congestion charging zone in West London and a lot of puff and PR about what fab things Tfl do (or intend to do) for us all. But not a stitch about how to avert death of self, family and other road users at a lightless junction within two miles of where I live. Or even a number of who to call should I come across faulty traffic lights again. Ah. A brick wall. Maybe the info is so important that Tfl have hidden it somewhere safe. If anyone hunts it down I would be gratful if they could pass it on.
Yes Chrise, I agree this must happen all over London. The police are severely overstretched and criminally underfunded, but I bet if I'd called them because a wildcard gunman was taking pot shots at cars on the Bell Green/ Savacentre junction in Sydenham, shooting out three sets of traffic lights in the process, there's be squad cars and traffic police swarming down on the place in minutes to secure it and make the road safe for kids and adults alike. However, simple faulty traffic lights, that probably only needed a man to be called out from his Sunday lunch to flip a switch on a fuse box, putting thousands of drivers' and passengers' and pedestrians' lives at risk over a period in excess of three hours, doesn't warrant a call out. I find this hard to swallow. In fact I am pretty disgusted that we value human life so little. I'm not sure what time you went through the junction, Chrise, but when I went through late lunchtime it was ultra busy and people just weren't slowing down at all. Unlucky, I guess.
I think if this lights out issue had happened on a suburban Sydenham side road, the danger would have been minimal because the old Sydenham community spirit would have kicked in. If it happened at the end of our own streets, for example, or even on Sydenham Road itself, I'm sure Sydenhamites would knock up their own warning sign (I know I would if I saw people in danger) or shopkeepers would stick a red triangle in the road, to warn road users of danger, or wave their arms in the air shouting 'look out' if nothing else. That's why I like living in Sydenham - because, in general, people here will go the extra mile to do that sort of thing. They're human. But huge junctions and road systems like the Bell Green/ Savacentre one in Lower Sydenham present a different kettle of fish altogether. There's no real communtiy spirit there because nobody lives on that site for a start - so no-one is willing to step up to the plate when something geos wrong like the traffic lights failing - and why should they anyway, thus putting their own lives at risk on a major junction when the police have been called so surely they'll have to turn up soon if there are enough prangs? Won't they?... Well obviously not.
The question is - do we want to encourage an even bigger, potentially more dangerous junction than even this one on our doorsteps, topped off with a couple of shops that sure, might be convenient and cheap to use, but who nobody really feels connected to, and, in turn, who don't really care about us as customers either.
Imagine, for example, that a ten-foot-deep hole appeared outside one of the Sydenham Road traders' shops. And imagine he informed the council about the dangerous hole but for some reason the council failed to make safe or repair it. If that trader allowed pedestrians to fall into that hole, didn't put up a barrier around it to protect his customers and the general public from injury, word would get around about this trader (no doubt on this forum!) and he'd find himself being berated for his slack attitude and going out of business. Regardless of whether, in law, the responsibility lay with him to make safe the hole. But, because of its size, and because there's no one fall guy, and because we love the convenience of the extended opening hours, stores like Savacentre are exempt from these rules of common decency we as consumers demand of the independent trader.
I'd never thought about this whole Bell Green thing before. In fact I thought it'd actually be quite handy to have a Homebase down there, lest I should need to nip out for some Polyfilla or picture hooks at a moment's notice. Well you never know. And you can't stop progress can you? Anyone who would want to do that would be foolish. But now I realise I value my life more than I value easily accessible picture hooks, I'm afraid. You can't put many pictures up when you're six feet under. And hey you can buy picture hooks in Sydenham Road already. Or buy them over the net and get them delivered by Royal Mail. Maybe they cost a bit more that way. And maybe you can't get them immediately at 10pm seven days a week. But I don't care any more.
In conclusion - just wondering if Pat Trembath or anyone else knows how that whole Bell Green/ possible improvement of Sydenham Road thing is chugging along?
Also wondering - has there ever been a 'reward scheme' proposed for Sydenham Road traders? If they all (or even some) signed up and you got a credit every time you shopped in Sydenham Road and after say ten credits you got some sort of freebie, or just entry to a weekly prize draw with a decent prize, I'm sure people would use the shops more.
I wish we had Cobb's back... That'd be a start...
Sorry to waffle on for so long!
Yes, I called Lewisham Council and they said Tfl are responsible for the maintenance of traffic lights, so it's not the council's problem. Naturally I looked at the Tfl website to see if there was a section where motorists could report faulty traffic lights, in case I should come across the problem again around Sydenham/ Forest Hill. I found nothing. Not a stitch. There was a lot of very dull info about the new congestion charging zone in West London and a lot of puff and PR about what fab things Tfl do (or intend to do) for us all. But not a stitch about how to avert death of self, family and other road users at a lightless junction within two miles of where I live. Or even a number of who to call should I come across faulty traffic lights again. Ah. A brick wall. Maybe the info is so important that Tfl have hidden it somewhere safe. If anyone hunts it down I would be gratful if they could pass it on.
Yes Chrise, I agree this must happen all over London. The police are severely overstretched and criminally underfunded, but I bet if I'd called them because a wildcard gunman was taking pot shots at cars on the Bell Green/ Savacentre junction in Sydenham, shooting out three sets of traffic lights in the process, there's be squad cars and traffic police swarming down on the place in minutes to secure it and make the road safe for kids and adults alike. However, simple faulty traffic lights, that probably only needed a man to be called out from his Sunday lunch to flip a switch on a fuse box, putting thousands of drivers' and passengers' and pedestrians' lives at risk over a period in excess of three hours, doesn't warrant a call out. I find this hard to swallow. In fact I am pretty disgusted that we value human life so little. I'm not sure what time you went through the junction, Chrise, but when I went through late lunchtime it was ultra busy and people just weren't slowing down at all. Unlucky, I guess.
I think if this lights out issue had happened on a suburban Sydenham side road, the danger would have been minimal because the old Sydenham community spirit would have kicked in. If it happened at the end of our own streets, for example, or even on Sydenham Road itself, I'm sure Sydenhamites would knock up their own warning sign (I know I would if I saw people in danger) or shopkeepers would stick a red triangle in the road, to warn road users of danger, or wave their arms in the air shouting 'look out' if nothing else. That's why I like living in Sydenham - because, in general, people here will go the extra mile to do that sort of thing. They're human. But huge junctions and road systems like the Bell Green/ Savacentre one in Lower Sydenham present a different kettle of fish altogether. There's no real communtiy spirit there because nobody lives on that site for a start - so no-one is willing to step up to the plate when something geos wrong like the traffic lights failing - and why should they anyway, thus putting their own lives at risk on a major junction when the police have been called so surely they'll have to turn up soon if there are enough prangs? Won't they?... Well obviously not.
The question is - do we want to encourage an even bigger, potentially more dangerous junction than even this one on our doorsteps, topped off with a couple of shops that sure, might be convenient and cheap to use, but who nobody really feels connected to, and, in turn, who don't really care about us as customers either.
Imagine, for example, that a ten-foot-deep hole appeared outside one of the Sydenham Road traders' shops. And imagine he informed the council about the dangerous hole but for some reason the council failed to make safe or repair it. If that trader allowed pedestrians to fall into that hole, didn't put up a barrier around it to protect his customers and the general public from injury, word would get around about this trader (no doubt on this forum!) and he'd find himself being berated for his slack attitude and going out of business. Regardless of whether, in law, the responsibility lay with him to make safe the hole. But, because of its size, and because there's no one fall guy, and because we love the convenience of the extended opening hours, stores like Savacentre are exempt from these rules of common decency we as consumers demand of the independent trader.
I'd never thought about this whole Bell Green thing before. In fact I thought it'd actually be quite handy to have a Homebase down there, lest I should need to nip out for some Polyfilla or picture hooks at a moment's notice. Well you never know. And you can't stop progress can you? Anyone who would want to do that would be foolish. But now I realise I value my life more than I value easily accessible picture hooks, I'm afraid. You can't put many pictures up when you're six feet under. And hey you can buy picture hooks in Sydenham Road already. Or buy them over the net and get them delivered by Royal Mail. Maybe they cost a bit more that way. And maybe you can't get them immediately at 10pm seven days a week. But I don't care any more.
In conclusion - just wondering if Pat Trembath or anyone else knows how that whole Bell Green/ possible improvement of Sydenham Road thing is chugging along?
Also wondering - has there ever been a 'reward scheme' proposed for Sydenham Road traders? If they all (or even some) signed up and you got a credit every time you shopped in Sydenham Road and after say ten credits you got some sort of freebie, or just entry to a weekly prize draw with a decent prize, I'm sure people would use the shops more.
I wish we had Cobb's back... That'd be a start...
Sorry to waffle on for so long!
-
Blushingsnail
- Posts: 73
- Joined: 20 Jul 2006 10:38
- Location: Forest Hill
TfL do have a webpage with info about reporting street faults. From the main page click on 'Streets' and then on 'Report a street fault' from the menu on the left. Or go direct: http://streetfaults.tfl.gov.uk/
There's also a phone number for serious and urgent faults: 0845 305 1234.
There's also a phone number for serious and urgent faults: 0845 305 1234.
Thanks Blushing Snail!
The TfL site advises people to report urgent faults by calling 0845 305 1234.
Fantastic. Job done. Everyone safe asap in this hectic 24-hour society of ours you'd think.
The TfL site then goes on to say in its next par:
"TfL Street Management manages Red Routes in London, and the London boroughs look after the other streets in their area. When you report a fault we will decide whose responsibility it is and tell whoever manages the road within 12 hours"
So that's up to 12 hours just for TfL to report to someone else the fault you have just reported as urgent to them!! Not even 12 hours for someone to fix it! Er, sorry but I thought urgent meant like HELP - NOW! LIVES IN DANGER! Not 'please may we have the possibilty of getting the fault I have just reported re-reported to someone else within 12 hours after one of your employees has pulled a file out of the basement to decide who governs said fault area, then had a bit of a chat about it with their colleagues before calling the council to ask: 'I say, would you mind sending a chap down to cast an eye over those bally lights at Bell Green again. When you've got a moment. Urgent - yes, that's right, so no real hurry...' '
Sorry but this whole situtaion is becoming so totally bizarre.
Will anyone step up to the plate to keep our roads safe? If not let's hope the light fault at Bell Green doesn't recur.
As I said - I won't be driving near that area again. Especially not with a kid in the car. Sorry.
As far as I know Bell Green junction is not classified as a red route but Lewisham Council have already told me they're not responsible for it, as the TfL site suggests they would be.
Does ANYONE know who's responsible for that area of road? And the lights on it? Or who we should call to get the switch flipped to turn the lights back on if they fail again?
Just tell us where the fusebox for those lights is please someone - we'll fix them ourselves!!
Evidently we can't rely on the cops to step in and assist us to stay safe if this happens again.
And this is not some lazy country crossroads we're talking about - it's a major road junction in a busy suburb of one of the world's busiest capital cities.
Hello. Is anyone out there in charge?...
The TfL site advises people to report urgent faults by calling 0845 305 1234.
Fantastic. Job done. Everyone safe asap in this hectic 24-hour society of ours you'd think.
The TfL site then goes on to say in its next par:
"TfL Street Management manages Red Routes in London, and the London boroughs look after the other streets in their area. When you report a fault we will decide whose responsibility it is and tell whoever manages the road within 12 hours"
So that's up to 12 hours just for TfL to report to someone else the fault you have just reported as urgent to them!! Not even 12 hours for someone to fix it! Er, sorry but I thought urgent meant like HELP - NOW! LIVES IN DANGER! Not 'please may we have the possibilty of getting the fault I have just reported re-reported to someone else within 12 hours after one of your employees has pulled a file out of the basement to decide who governs said fault area, then had a bit of a chat about it with their colleagues before calling the council to ask: 'I say, would you mind sending a chap down to cast an eye over those bally lights at Bell Green again. When you've got a moment. Urgent - yes, that's right, so no real hurry...' '
Sorry but this whole situtaion is becoming so totally bizarre.
Will anyone step up to the plate to keep our roads safe? If not let's hope the light fault at Bell Green doesn't recur.
As I said - I won't be driving near that area again. Especially not with a kid in the car. Sorry.
As far as I know Bell Green junction is not classified as a red route but Lewisham Council have already told me they're not responsible for it, as the TfL site suggests they would be.
Does ANYONE know who's responsible for that area of road? And the lights on it? Or who we should call to get the switch flipped to turn the lights back on if they fail again?
Just tell us where the fusebox for those lights is please someone - we'll fix them ourselves!!
Evidently we can't rely on the cops to step in and assist us to stay safe if this happens again.
And this is not some lazy country crossroads we're talking about - it's a major road junction in a busy suburb of one of the world's busiest capital cities.
Hello. Is anyone out there in charge?...
Sorry user100 if all this talk of traffic lights offends you. But if you don't like the topic then don't read about it - simple.
Sure sometimes things go wrong.
That's the nature of the universe. Not everything is within our control.
But we live in a big city. And if things go wrong I think it's fair enough to expect them to be put right. Especially if those things put lives at risk.
I'll warrant if your kid's life was put unecessarily at risk you'd a bit peeved. Maybe you wouldn't. Maybe you'd simply shrug enigmatically and say 'hey, that's life, let's all move on.'
I duly apologise for bringing the problem up at all.
I wrongly thought that's what this forum was for.
Sure sometimes things go wrong.
That's the nature of the universe. Not everything is within our control.
But we live in a big city. And if things go wrong I think it's fair enough to expect them to be put right. Especially if those things put lives at risk.
I'll warrant if your kid's life was put unecessarily at risk you'd a bit peeved. Maybe you wouldn't. Maybe you'd simply shrug enigmatically and say 'hey, that's life, let's all move on.'
I duly apologise for bringing the problem up at all.
I wrongly thought that's what this forum was for.