Old Florist next to Lidl

[G-Man]

Hi all

Just walked past the old florist next to Lidl and there appear to be shop fitters in there. At a glance it looked like there was a counter at the back of the shop and some stylish steel lampshades. The right hand wall was mirrored. Can't remember exactly what the florist was like inside mind.

Any ideas of what might be opening?

G-Man

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[pip]

If the current trends continue in Sydenham possibly a child friendly sushi bar.

[benchef]

I heard it's gonna be a cut price cider shed, also child friendly.

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[pip]

Chatting to the chaps working on the place tonight found out its gonna be, wait for it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Internet Cafe + Hairdressers + Money exchange.

[G-Man]

Oh my gosh!!! I wish you were joking but you're not are you?!? That is absolutely unbelievable! Why, tell me why the council and Sydenham Society let this happen?!?! And YES Pat and the Syd Soc and Chris Best I'm looking at you for answers.

Cheers for investigating Pip. Very sad though as it would have been a perfect spot for our friend the sushi man.

G-Man

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[Tim Lund]

Oh my gosh!!! I wish you were joking but you're not are you?!? That is absolutely unbelievable! Why, tell me why the council and Sydenham Society let this happen?!?! And YES Pat and the Syd Soc and Chris Best I'm looking at you for answers.

Cheers for investigating Pip. Very sad though as it would have been a perfect spot for our friend the sushi man.

G-Man

I think you're being a bit unfair here - and I have to ask if you really think this would have been the perfect spot for a sushi bar.

We all need to accept economic realities. The 'old florist' - in fact quite a new business, run by the daughter of Angie the flower seller on Sydenham Road - is in fact moving to a better location, nearer her Mum's pitch, with more footfall, and paying a lower rent. You cannot blame Chris Best etc. for this.

Our local 'great and good' are doing something - this is from the latest SydSoc enewsletter

STOP PRESS Lewisham back Sydenham & Forest Hill in their bid to become a "Portas Pilot"
Lewisham Council have teamed up with the Sydenham and Forest Hill Societies to bid for Mary Portas funding to improve the two high streets. Funding is available for 12 pilots to test the Town Team approach, with up to £100k available for successful applications. Dozens of local people came together to put the bid together, including the two local civic societies, Kirkdale Village trader's association, the Horniman Museum and the Sydenham town centre steering group. The bid included a video made by local people. To view the video go to: https://www.youtube.com/sydenhamkirkforesttv For more information about the Portas Review go to: http://www.communities.gov.uk/portasreview

and there are various threads on this Forum too.

I have some doubts about whether these initiatives will succeed, principally because I have seen little evidence of engagement with commercial landlords - such as whoever is asking for the rent which has driven out this business - who are the players with the greatest financial interest in the success of these efforts. I would also feel more confident if we had seen some analysis of the economics of trading on Sydenham Road.

[pip]

Do we really need 3 internet cafes and 3 hair parlours within a 50m stretch of Sydenham road?
Especially as only 1 internet cafe there ever seems to be busy as it is. Maybe when the new one opens you will be able to get your hair cut while surfing and then pawn your worldly goods to pay for the honour. Also if they intend to cut elder mens hair they could call it
Silver Surfers

[G-Man]

I think you're being a bit unfair here - and I have to ask if you really think this would have been the perfect spot for a sushi bar.

We all need to accept economic realities. The 'old florist' - in fact quite a new business, run by the daughter of Angie the flower seller on Sydenham Road - is in fact moving to a better location, nearer her Mum's pitch, with more footfall, and paying a lower rent. You cannot blame Chris Best etc. for this.

I'm not sure I am. With regards location of a Sushi Bar/Japanese restaurant - yes I do think the location would have worked as it is near both Tratt Raff and the Dolphin so keeping restaurants in the same area, which was also mentioned on a previous thread.

Also I know Angie and her daughter. It is an 'old florist' as it is no longer a florist, as a closed bakery would be an 'old bakery.' I am also not blaming Chris Best etc for them changing location....

Our local 'great and good' are doing something - this is from the latest SydSoc enewsletter

STOP PRESS Lewisham back Sydenham & Forest Hill in their bid to become a "Portas Pilot"
Lewisham Council have teamed up with the Sydenham and Forest Hill Societies to bid for Mary Portas funding to improve the two high streets. Funding is available for 12 pilots to test the Town Team approach, with up to £100k available for successful applications. Dozens of local people came together to put the bid together, including the two local civic societies, Kirkdale Village trader's association, the Horniman Museum and the Sydenham town centre steering group. The bid included a video made by local people. To view the video go to: https://www.youtube.com/sydenhamkirkforesttv For more information about the Portas Review go to: http://www.communities.gov.uk/portasreview

and there are various threads on this Forum too.

I know what is being done and I think it is fantastic and I have been active on all threads. I just don't think many things seems to be widely communicated on this forum, which is a hub for information on Sydenham. All this talk of re-generation and making the high streets better will not be helped by me too businesses such as this opening, I'm with Pip, we really don't need this type of business. Other High Streets have stopped certain establishments opening, why can't our local campaigners do the same?

I have some doubts about whether these initiatives will succeed, principally because I have seen little evidence of engagement with commercial landlords - such as whoever is asking for the rent which has driven out this business - who are the players with the greatest financial interest in the success of these efforts. I would also feel more confident if we had seen some analysis of the economics of trading on Sydenham Road.

The high street needs to be more attractive and places like this stopped from opening before we can see any real improvement and better trading figures, otherwise, as you have seen on this forum people will continue to go to Dulwich and surrounding areas for their shopping.

G-Man

[Tim Lund]

All this talk of re-generation and making the high streets better will not be helped by ... businesses such as this opening, I'm with Pip, we really don't need this type of business. Other High Streets have stopped certain establishments opening, why can't our local campaigners do the same?

Good question, to which the answer I think has to be some combination of carrot - providing commercial incentives, for landlord and tenant alike, even if long term they benefit landlords most - and stick - using the planning system to stop some types of establishment. The stick was applied with 59 Sydenham Road to prevent it becoming a Money Shop, only for it to become a Funeral Directors, and Cash and Cheque Express to open a little while later at 79 Sydenham Road.

I'll accept that some Town Centres are faring better than Sydenham Road, but that doesn't mean our local campaigners are doing anything wrong. I just don't know, and I don't think anyone else does, unless, perhaps, those with sight of the serious preliminary analysis required by Waitrose and other possible investors.

[Bazman76]

It's a bit chicken and egg, I have to confess I am bit guilty of going elsewhere for my shopping although I do use Kente and the fish mongers regularly (not not the butchers in the same shop after I fell out with that guy but that's another story) and the bakers.

I'd love to shop more in Sydenham but there just aren't enough nice shops.

I'd say getting some nice shops in has to be the number one priority for the high street. Could some of the regeneration money be used to offer reduced rents or some other inscntive to the "right" kind of shops?

If it could be done it would then just be a case of making sure that the right people were aware of the siuation.

I would imagine once you get a critical mass of shops, others would follow without the need for incentives?

[leenewham]

Tim is right. It's very difficult to stop various shops opening in the high street unless it's a class of business problem.

The flower shop looked great inside but miserable from the outside. For a business selling a product that is supposed to cheer you up, how they presented themselves really let them down because they were nice and the shop really looked good inside.

If it is to be an internet cafe/hairdressers (to add to the 13 we already have) and cheque express I can only guess it's not going to be a business to draw people from other areas. It's an odd mix of businesses to go with a hairdressers/computer repair shop and hairdressers/fruit and veg stall.

Perhaps with the hairdressers having to diversify it's telling that there are too many!

In Kirkdale last night the traders group met and it was packed. Only when traders get together and form a strong group is there any hope of long term improvement to an area.

Talking to a trader in North Harrow today, they were complaining that parking was their no1 problem, other traders didn't join in a parking scheme, then they said the council wanted them to fail as a business and were only interested in another area because it was Jewish. What they really meant was that other traders in the area wouldn't pull together, because of that they dont' have a voice, because of that the council don't listen which is in complete contrast to another area with a strong sense of community that had done all those things.

The only way Sydenham road will improve is if the Traders form a very strong group and work with the local friends of groups, artists, civic societies and council. Currently the Town Centre Steering Group is no-where near a proper traders group in size (please correct me Chris, but it's around two traders plus in size isn't it?).

It really is up to the traders to take charge of their street, not a few people from the Sydenham Society or the Council, because the problems in Sydenham are the same for every high street in London. Lewisham Council simply can't tackle all the problems everywhere and will focus on areas where there is the most noise and promise like Deptford (where Antic have a pub), Lewisham (where Antic have a pub) and Catford (where Antic have a pub).

[Bazman76]

Nice post.

But if they current traders get together you are only going to see more of the same surely?

[G-Man]

Nice post.

But if they current traders get together you are only going to see more of the same surely?

I think it's down to which traders get together. I would suspect it would be those who care anyway. Your Billings, Tratt Raff, Smart Chaps, Syd. DIY, Kirkdale Books, the Dolphin, maybe even Co-op, a couple of the hairdressers/beauty places as they seem to care about how they look and trade.

Hmmm not a bad list of local shops there!

I still don't get why more don't post on here :-/

Also, why don't the Kirkdale Group collaborate with shops on Sydenham road to create a more united front? Just an idea.

G-Man

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[fanillier]

Just been reading through the posts here. You know what? It smacks a bit of snobbery and narrowmindedness. The vast majority of Sydenham's community don't post here nor represent every culture we do have here on our doorsteps.

I am a strong believer that there is enough good fortune out there for everyone and no one in their right mind would open a business wanting it to fail. Every person/family who is willing to put their money, time, effort in opening a shop to serve our community is deserving of our respect and gratitude. In my opinion, no one should be denied an opportunity to prosper, provided it is legally sound, and the support of the whole community should stand behind this rather than try to chop people's proactiveness down.

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[leenewham]

I don't think it's snobbery Fanillier. And this forum is open to all to view or comment. OK not everyone knows about it, but a lot do and a lot of people read it without commenting of all races, religions and viewpoints.

You have been really pro-active in using this forum for feedback on your businesses and ideas. It's a shame more businesses don't follow what you and a handfull of others do. Rather than being shop down I think you have taken a bit of a lead on this. And while I admire anyone who has the guts to start their own business (we did, it's not easy), shops aren't charities, they have to earn their custom, you can't just open a shop and expect local people to use you out of gratitude. Plus many, if not most small businesses don't research the local area and what people want and more importantly, what businesses the area needs and work for that district.

You can't blame people getting disheartened when they hear yet another hairdressers is opening, or Tesco, or out of town shopping centre or nail bar or internet cafe or betting shop as there is much of that already. Ask yourself this: would you go to a shopping mall that looked like Sydenham and had our range of shops? I wouldn't.

Lastly, going back to the topic, why did the florists near Lidl fail? Was it competition from supermarkets or the internet? Many other florists do well despite this. Was it because it couldn't get people through to door because of the way it looked? It certainly wasn't an attractive business for passers buy with amazing displays to entice people in. Was it because the service wasn't up to scratch? I can't comment on that, but I popped in when they first opened and they were really friendly so I'd guess that wasn't the case. Was it the price? Was it the range and what they stocked? Were they in the wrong part of Sydenham? Being opposite a funeral directors isn't a bad place to be for a florists. Did they have an internet presence? I know they were part of Interflora so would have benefitted from that. Were the rents and rates too high (I think they are everywhere at the moment and should have been readjusted in the recession for small businesses).

If people can answer those questions, then surely that's great feedback from any business in Sydenham. Surely it's just as valid to find out why a business failed as to why a business succeeds?

[fanillier]

I really don't know what kind of hairdressers it will be but I'm guessing for afro/carrabean nature. And if so, it is what this area needs as their "hairdressing" takes a lot longer than those who only cater for European hair. Fact is, it doesn't really matter what kind of hairdressers it will be but at least they DO have the guts to go for it.

I've directed many people over the years to other businesses in the area. They've even bought from me just because they were there asking for directions. Hence my comment about respect and gratitude.

I have a lot of love for Sydenham, always have. I'm just a fan of "the more the merrier", be it even for quirky collaborations of business ideas.

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[Chris Best]

Currently the Town Centre Steering Group is no-where near a proper traders group in size (please correct me Chris, but it's around two traders plus in size isn't it?).

There is a Sydenham Traders Association that has a bank account and members and is in the process of signing up more members as part of the new web site - http://www.sydenhamtowncentre.com.

The Sydenham Town Centre Steering Group has Terms of Reference to include four traders who represent the Sydenham Traders Association - currently Geraldine, John, Paula and Guy - with a standing invitation to Jenny from Kirkdale. We have found good support amongst the traders for community activities - 40 plus for Halloween and 20 plus for last Saturday's Easter Egg hunt (some were not open over Easter). The feedback from the families that participate is very positive and gives traders the opportunity to showcase their business.

Yes of course there are some traders who see the shop as just a lock-up - they do not live in the area and do not see the need to get involved with meetings and come along to the Sydenham Assembly. Others do and I have a regular dialogue with many traders in the high street - they are all interested in the start date of the high street works and how this will affect them!

[syd]

my only real problem is the amount of off licences that sell special brew to alciholics at 7am. its legal pushing and the bloated lazy council allows it

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[Annie]

Just been reading through the posts here. You know what? It smacks a bit of snobbery and narrowmindedness. The vast majority of Sydenham's community don't post here nor represent every culture we do have here on our doorsteps.

I am a strong believer that there is enough good fortune out there for everyone and no one in their right mind would open a business wanting it to fail. Every person/family who is willing to put their money, time, effort in opening a shop to serve our community is deserving of our respect and gratitude. In my opinion, no one should be denied an opportunity to prosper, provided it is legally sound, and the support of the whole community should stand behind this rather than try to chop people's proactiveness down.

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Snobbery?
I don't use betting shops/loan shops,nail shops,phone shops,money transfer shops,internet cafe shops,I could go on but i'm sure you get the picture,until Sydenham gets shops that I want to use, I choose to shop elsewhere.

[Eagle]

Annie
I to do not use any of the shops mentioned.
Always puzzled with the number of nail shops. Originally I thought DIY Shops but now understand in reality shop for old people who cannot cut their nails. Very sad. Their relations should assist.