I can't see the previous thread about the Woodman and planning permission - what happened to it?
Does anyone know when W+S's appeal will be heard?
Am a bit concerned that they have now concealed the front lower part of the pub where they want to take out the windows - is it possible they might do a Robinson Jackson and take them out without permission?
The Woodman
Re: The Woodman
I'm pretty sure I saw a new 'To Let' sign hanging from the scaffolding the other morning to the entrance of Halifax Street.
Not sure if it is new due to planning permission not going Wooster's way.
Not sure if it is new due to planning permission not going Wooster's way.
Re: The Woodman
I live next door to the Woodman and have just recieved notice from Lewisham that they want to demolish the outbuildings and build a three bedroom house.
http://acolnet.lewisham.gov.uk/LEWIS-X ... mkey=65172
I'm pretty sure they won't be able to as it is a conservation area but I hope as many people as possible (and the Sydenham Society) register their objections.
I believe there is a case to apply to have the Woodman listed (if the Foxes can be a listed building then surely the Woodman can).
http://acolnet.lewisham.gov.uk/LEWIS-X ... mkey=65172
I'm pretty sure they won't be able to as it is a conservation area but I hope as many people as possible (and the Sydenham Society) register their objections.
I believe there is a case to apply to have the Woodman listed (if the Foxes can be a listed building then surely the Woodman can).
Re: The Woodman
It's worth comparing this with Wooster and Stock's previous application to develop their current site, 109-111 Kirkdale - see comment on this thread.
In that case they were going for a density 68% over what is allowed by the current London plan - this time they are not. The rules are defined in terms of habitable rooms per hectare, and habitable rooms are all rooms except hallways, bathrooms, WCs, laundry rooms and storage cupboards. If we allow two reception rooms and a kitchen in addition to the three bedrooms, the density comes in at 428 hr/ha, which is just under the 450 maximum allowed in this sort of 'urban' location with a PTAL (public transport accessibility level) of 3. One suspects that this time someone did the calculations first.
I'm not sure what bearing being in a conservation area will have on this - I would have thought it largely a question of sensitivity of design. If it does make a difference, it will mean that conservation area status makes somewhere that much less attractive to investors, and so a blight rather than a benefit. I think this is a case where the Sydenham Society will have to think carefully before automatically opposing it.
In that case they were going for a density 68% over what is allowed by the current London plan - this time they are not. The rules are defined in terms of habitable rooms per hectare, and habitable rooms are all rooms except hallways, bathrooms, WCs, laundry rooms and storage cupboards. If we allow two reception rooms and a kitchen in addition to the three bedrooms, the density comes in at 428 hr/ha, which is just under the 450 maximum allowed in this sort of 'urban' location with a PTAL (public transport accessibility level) of 3. One suspects that this time someone did the calculations first.
I'm not sure what bearing being in a conservation area will have on this - I would have thought it largely a question of sensitivity of design. If it does make a difference, it will mean that conservation area status makes somewhere that much less attractive to investors, and so a blight rather than a benefit. I think this is a case where the Sydenham Society will have to think carefully before automatically opposing it.
Re: The Woodman
Bump ...
deadline for comments is tomorrow.
deadline for comments is tomorrow.
Re: The Woodman
I live in the road, and feel its a shame that the old stables of the pub are to be demolished due to this development. They may not be of much architectural importance but its another nail in the coffin of conservation and they are a link to the old pub itself...trouble is, all that it is being replaced is is a pastiche version of whats already in the road itself. If we are going to have a new development here (and i know of the shortage of housing in the capital), why does it have to be a boring poor quality version of whats already there? Its a shame someone doesnt have the balls to do something abit innovative and contemporary which actually can work better.
Re: The Woodman
Certainly a topic worthy of discussion.
I loved the Woodman when it last operated as a pub. The trouble was, it wasn't commercially viable.
Two Landlords attemped to operate it , and both failed.
And since the last failure, it has remained empty.
Now, I hate seeing pubs fall into disuse. Particularly a pub with such an interesting history as the Woodman. The interior wood decor was really very homely, along with the open fire during cold winters.
However, I would rather the building be used, than fall into disrepair. And so Wooster and Stock took it over. I was hoping they would retain some of the buildings more charachterful features, such as the windows, exterior tiles colours and interor wood panelling. This doesn't seem to be the case.
And in my own humble opinion the exterior works to date (namely painting) seems a bit sub-standard and certainly not to my liking. However, i'll reserve judgement until it is completed. Hopefully they won't mess it up.
The Proposed buidling in what was the beer garden seems like a way for the Estate Agent to generate some additional cash. I haven't seen the drawings, but read a description of the development. The off-street parking will go in their favour, but the change of use will cause Wooster and Stock some additional monies to try and remedy, even if they get Planning Permission.
I will be sad to see the Woodman go, but cannot see anything at present that would prevent Planning Permission being given.
I loved the Woodman when it last operated as a pub. The trouble was, it wasn't commercially viable.
Two Landlords attemped to operate it , and both failed.
And since the last failure, it has remained empty.
Now, I hate seeing pubs fall into disuse. Particularly a pub with such an interesting history as the Woodman. The interior wood decor was really very homely, along with the open fire during cold winters.
However, I would rather the building be used, than fall into disrepair. And so Wooster and Stock took it over. I was hoping they would retain some of the buildings more charachterful features, such as the windows, exterior tiles colours and interor wood panelling. This doesn't seem to be the case.
And in my own humble opinion the exterior works to date (namely painting) seems a bit sub-standard and certainly not to my liking. However, i'll reserve judgement until it is completed. Hopefully they won't mess it up.
The Proposed buidling in what was the beer garden seems like a way for the Estate Agent to generate some additional cash. I haven't seen the drawings, but read a description of the development. The off-street parking will go in their favour, but the change of use will cause Wooster and Stock some additional monies to try and remedy, even if they get Planning Permission.
I will be sad to see the Woodman go, but cannot see anything at present that would prevent Planning Permission being given.
Re: The Woodman
Happily the application to build a house in the back garden has been refused by Lewisham.
Re: The Woodman
Depending on the grounds for refusal, it is likely another modified application will be submitted very soon. Developers are like thatknid wrote:Happily the application to build a house in the back garden has been refused by Lewisham.
Re: The Woodman
They seem to be painting some of the gorgeous exterior tiles orange, which looks terrible. I do hope they keep them and don't paint all of them orange!
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
Re: The Woodman
A lot of comparisons with the Greyhound can be drawn;
Re: The Woodman
Now gone to appeal. See new thread.knid wrote:Happily the application to build a house in the back garden has been refused by Lewisham.
Re: The Woodman
I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the scaffolding coming down from the Woodman yesterday.
I think it looks really nice (barring the chipboard covering the front door - which I'm sure they'll sort out) and I'm pleased that they've kept the Woodman sign at the top of the building.
I think it looks really nice (barring the chipboard covering the front door - which I'm sure they'll sort out) and I'm pleased that they've kept the Woodman sign at the top of the building.
Re: The Woodman
I just saw it.
It does look good after a first (if rather quick) glance.
It does look good after a first (if rather quick) glance.
Re: The Woodman
Thats good news,lets hope the Greyhound comes up trumps too.
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
-
Pat Trembath
- Posts: 613
- Joined: 2 Oct 2004 10:54
Re: The Woodman
How quick a glance do you need to notice that the original leaded windows have been replaced by mirrored glass? Conservation Area, locally listed building? Planning permission applied for and granted?
I think not, but I will be asking.
I think not, but I will be asking.
Re: The Woodman
I haven't seen it Pat,I was hoping all was ok? But obviously not.
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
[ Post made via Mobile Device ]
Re: The Woodman
Those two unfortunatley dont hold enough weight, in reality. Depends on what you think they mean and what they really mean I suppose .Pat Trembath wrote:Conservation Area, locally listed building?
Re: The Woodman
You need about as long as I glanced at the building Pat. I noticed the mirrored glass, but it wasn't clear (pun intended) as if they had replaced the actual glass or added a film to the existing glass to create the effect.
I thought it actually looked rather good, I wasn't commenting on whether they needed planning. I'm unsure what the planning laws are regarding a locally listed building as opposed to a proper listed building. There are many permitted development right regarding signage. You don't need to apply for planning to put the name of your business on a shop/pub etc if it's not lit, the letters aren't taller than 75cm etc. As you know Pat, we design a lot of shop fronts and signage etc, some here in Sydenham.
Please share any information on what is allowed under locally listed planning laws Pat, I'd like to know. We always discuss things like this with planning officers before we get to implementing signage, but have as yet not worked on any locally listed buildings (aside from winning the Greyhound Mural which we are still awaiting information on before we start work on it…not to mention the winners cheque!).
I thought it actually looked rather good, I wasn't commenting on whether they needed planning. I'm unsure what the planning laws are regarding a locally listed building as opposed to a proper listed building. There are many permitted development right regarding signage. You don't need to apply for planning to put the name of your business on a shop/pub etc if it's not lit, the letters aren't taller than 75cm etc. As you know Pat, we design a lot of shop fronts and signage etc, some here in Sydenham.
Please share any information on what is allowed under locally listed planning laws Pat, I'd like to know. We always discuss things like this with planning officers before we get to implementing signage, but have as yet not worked on any locally listed buildings (aside from winning the Greyhound Mural which we are still awaiting information on before we start work on it…not to mention the winners cheque!).
-
Pat Trembath
- Posts: 613
- Joined: 2 Oct 2004 10:54
Re: The Woodman
No problem, Lee
My question to planners has been sent as follows:
Woodman PH, Kirkdale
Scaffolding has been removed and has exposed original leaded windows at gound floor level have been replaced by mirror reflected glass. Was this in any application for refurbishment? I dont recall objections to such an application, which would have been made certainly by Sydsoc, if this had been intimated at any stage.
Urgent site visit required and enforcement action required, too, if planning regs are found to have been ignored
Personally I think what has been done has changed the Conservation Area status of the area/PH tremendously. If an application for such changes and LBL Planning are happy with the changes proposed (and carried out without consultation) then Ok. But, if not, questions need to be asked about the design and consultation process.
I await a reply
My question to planners has been sent as follows:
Woodman PH, Kirkdale
Scaffolding has been removed and has exposed original leaded windows at gound floor level have been replaced by mirror reflected glass. Was this in any application for refurbishment? I dont recall objections to such an application, which would have been made certainly by Sydsoc, if this had been intimated at any stage.
Urgent site visit required and enforcement action required, too, if planning regs are found to have been ignored
Personally I think what has been done has changed the Conservation Area status of the area/PH tremendously. If an application for such changes and LBL Planning are happy with the changes proposed (and carried out without consultation) then Ok. But, if not, questions need to be asked about the design and consultation process.
I await a reply