Begging in Sydenham Road

[Bazman76]

I think I saw the same guy a couple of weeks ago, personally I just told him to piss off.

Even those of you who wish to help please do so by giving to the appropriate charity, if you start giving to beggars it'll just attract more beggars.

[Eagle]

I quite agree beggars ( including big issue beggars ) not welcome in lovely Sydenham.
I agree one should give direct to charities , which I do and sure most of you do as well.

[14BradfordRoad]

I quite agree beggars ( including big issue beggars ) not welcome in lovely Sydenham.
I agree one should give direct to charities , which I do and sure most of you do as well.

Not too sure about 'Big Issue' sellers, not quite begging is it?

[Dorian]

too sure about 'Big Issue' sellers, not quite begging is it?

Not far off, its harassment by the nature of the approach , and I dont see many "homeless sellers" looking like there off to a job interview.Maybe Im wrong ?

[14BradfordRoad]

too sure about 'Big Issue' sellers, not quite begging is it?

Not far off, its harassment by the nature of the approach , and I dont see many "homeless sellers" looking like there off to a job interview.Maybe Im wrong ?

Don't think it's begging in a legal sense (correct me if I'm wrong)! As far as the approach
goes, this can vary as a guy standing outside a station shouting out 'Big Issue' is no different
to shouting out 'Evening Standard' is it? Some that I've walked past are just trying to sell like
any other paper / magazine seller.
Some supposedly legal salesmen can get quite stroppy when they come round selling windows,
etc door to door too and can be very persistent, so hard to get rid of too.! I take your point
fully when harrasment is being used in a situation; begging or even licensed selling.

Q: Should a homeless seller be dressed in readiness for a job interview?

[Dorian]

Don't think it's begging in a legal sense (correct me if I'm wrong)! As far as the approach
goes, this can vary as a guy standing outside a station shouting out 'Big Issue' is no different
to shouting out 'Evening Standard' is it? Some that I've walked past are just trying to sell like
any other paper / magazine seller.

When I leave London Bridge I am handed a paper, I can walk past and take it or not. Alternativley I can go to my local super market and be stould in the way of , pleaded with and made to feel obliged to make a donation for a paper that I have no interest in. One is a distrubuter the latter is a beggar ?

[14BradfordRoad]

Don't think it's begging in a legal sense (correct me if I'm wrong)! As far as the approach
goes, this can vary as a guy standing outside a station shouting out 'Big Issue' is no different
to shouting out 'Evening Standard' is it? Some that I've walked past are just trying to sell like
any other paper / magazine seller.

When I leave London Bridge I am handed a paper, I can walk past and take it or not. Alternativley I can go to my local super market and be stould in the way of , pleaded with and made to feel obliged to make a donation for a paper that I have no interest in. One is a distrubuter the latter is a beggar ?

Put that way and in the circumstances you give; taking money with menaces would be
a good description. Do you find that all 'Big Issue' sellers stand in your way, forcing
you to give them money?

[simon]

I usually give the lady outside the Coop selling the Big Issue £1, if I have one to hand, but dont take the magazine as I have to enough to read already. I don't know her story but just feel she is probably a lot worse off than me. I dont usually give to beggars, however.

[Robin Orton]

A bloke got into conversation with me by the shops in Kirkdale yesterday morning, congratulated me on my dog etc, then, ' By the way, could you spare any change? I'm not a beggar or anything.' About forty, London accent - I don't think he was the same guy I posted about on 23 February on this thread.

[JRobinson]

If you buy a one day travel card, or pass, in the morning, use it for a while, go home, and pass it on to someone, who then uses it in the afternoon - that's not illegal. You're not both using it at the same time. As long as that second person follows the same T&Cs of the card. You could probably pass it on several times in one day and be ok. However, if you go through the gate on the way in, and pass it back over the fence to your friend, who then uses it to get in - that would be illegal, and if said friend finishes with it, and gives it away, and that person then sells it on - that selling on is illegal.

I mostly don't give to beggers.

[Eagle]

J Robinson
Are you sure you are correct. Ithought it was totally non transferable,

[JRobinson]

I'm not sure - but that's what I surmised from content in this thread...
how would anyone know, or check, if you've passed it on to someone else later in the day?
without trawling through cctv, and having an ID number on the card, and being sure that it was exactly the same one used?

if it does say 'not transferable' then technically giving it away to be used by someone else would be illegal (but to all intents and purposes probably not traceable)

[Eagle]

I agree no one would probably know , but that is not the same as saying it is legal.

I never give to beggars whether Big Issue people or not. I do give direct to charities.

[bensonby]

The exchange of money, on the other hand, was the pivotal point of the court case against Marshall, Coombes and Eren that Bensonby brought to our attention.

By reading the notes on the court case it transpires that those accused were not the people who gave the tickets away but those who tried to re-sell them to other passengers. It is the act of achieving a financial profit from a used ticket that is considered a crime, not the act of gifting it to someone.

Financial profit is irrelevent when determining a case of theft. S.3 defines a key element in making out the offence of theft: That when a person "[assumes] the rights of an owner" he "appropriates the property.

The key in the matter was not that the people made money - it was that they treated the tickets as their own (in addition to the various other points to prove for the offence of theft to make out), while all the way the train company still had an interest in the ticket despite the fact that the tickets were given into the control of another.

At least that's how I understand the judgement. Obiously enforcement etc. is an entirely different matter.

In addition to this the T&Cs of the ticket (not being transferrable) are clear in the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.

[14BradfordRoad]

I would imagine that travel cards do get shared and are used in this way and that this
practise goes on pretty much un-noticed. I'm not condoning this in any way and have
never given much thought to this. Also quite costly to prosecute I would have thought!
Is there a realistic or practical way of stopping this from happening (ID or something)?

[Eagle]

I agree unlikely anyone would be caught but does not alter the fact that it is illegal.

Getting back to begging it is a blight on modern society.

[Annie]

I agree Eagle,
I remember years ago there was an investigation that was done by a tv station, they discovered that even a solicitor was spending his lunch hour begging because he could almost make what he earnt at work,this is why I never give them money when I see them begging.
It should be stopped,
I do however realise that some people are genuine and fall on hard times.and cannot cope with the paperwork or whatever is needed to get them back on their feet, but here the government agencies should step in and help, rather than rely on charities.

An amusing but humbling story was told to me last year-my daughter was chatting to a "Tramp" (sorry not a good word to use I know,)- she popped into the off-licence and bought him a bottle of vodka,however he said no thanks I dont drink,she went back and bought him something to eat and a cup of coffee,he was very polite about it all and she was very apologetic for stereotyping him.
so again the old saying -never judge a book by its cover holds true.

[fanillier]

I think giving is better than not. I usually reach into my bag or pocket for however much I feel to give (sometimes the first note I touch).

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Eagle]

I give to my approved registered charities not to beggars , big issue or otherwise

[14BradfordRoad]

Haven't noticed this much in Sydenham but:
Jusy wondered how everyone sees Buskers, you know the guy playing his guitar, sometimes
very well - sometimes really badly, often near busy rail stations and when there is absolutely no pressure to contribute if you choose not to!
Although probably not legal; often nice to hear as you hurry past on your way to work on a
cold and wet Monday morning. I've heard many talented buskers and have thought it a shame
that they feel the need to do this. Maybe they enjoy the captive audience!

Would you see this the same as begging?