A Walk through the Nave of the Crystal Palace 1854
-
- Posts: 1
- Joined: 29 Jun 2010 13:09
- Location: Norwich
Jpegs
Hi,
I greatly enjoyed your 1854 walk through the Crystal Palace. I wonder whether you could help me with JPEGS of two of the exhibits. John Graham Lough's The Mourners, originally outside the Foreign Court, but frequently moved. It formed the starting point for a memorial at Offton, Suffolk of 1848 (on www.racns.co.uk, a site for which I am coordinator) and the cast of Clesinger's Francis I displayed first in the Central Transept, but then, together with Marochetti’s Richard the Lion Heart moved to the east/ parkside of the South Transept. I am preparing an article on another of Clesinger's sculpture, which you can also find on the website, Fighting Bulls at Lynford Hall
Richard Cocke
I greatly enjoyed your 1854 walk through the Crystal Palace. I wonder whether you could help me with JPEGS of two of the exhibits. John Graham Lough's The Mourners, originally outside the Foreign Court, but frequently moved. It formed the starting point for a memorial at Offton, Suffolk of 1848 (on www.racns.co.uk, a site for which I am coordinator) and the cast of Clesinger's Francis I displayed first in the Central Transept, but then, together with Marochetti’s Richard the Lion Heart moved to the east/ parkside of the South Transept. I am preparing an article on another of Clesinger's sculpture, which you can also find on the website, Fighting Bulls at Lynford Hall
Richard Cocke
-
- Posts: 3
- Joined: 11 Aug 2010 19:11
- Location: East Sussex
Re: A Walk through the Nave of the Crystal Palace 1854
Richard, hello, I might be able to help here, my family were the official photographers of the Crystal Palace from 1866 onwards and we still have a lot of the pictures in the archive, some of which are simple shots of the statues on black backgrounds, they're pretty old and some damage has occured and we only have glass negs from some, the rest all being old prints from the pre-press version of the catalogue. I've attached a PDF so you can see what I mean. Do you have any visual reference for the sculptures you are looking for? Or do you have a good description, as most of the pictures are not captioned and it's not always possible to make out the title on the plinth
Re: A Walk through the Nave of the Crystal Palace 1854
I am a student with Saint Louis University in St. Louis, Missouri in the United States. I am writing a paper on 3 photographs taken after the move of the Crystal Palace to Sydenham. I am trying to get information on these photos. They look as though they were taken by Philip Henry Delamotte, but I am not sure. Can I get someone to view them and assist me with finding more information on them?
-
- Posts: 688
- Joined: 25 Jun 2007 01:33
- Location: sarf lunnen
Re: A Walk through the Nave of the Crystal Palace 1854
Hmm.
I'm not as interested in who took a particular photo of the Crystal Palace as I am in the date it was taken, who can be sure of the first, and the second is difficult when these images were sometimes published again and again at a much later date.
Taking one of these views, the Nave from the south, which was one of the most popular photographs to take.
Published by Delamotte in 1854
Delamotte image published by the Crystal Palace Art Union and Negretti and Zambra in 1859
You can see how much the creepers have grown in the 5 years between these two images.
Here's another one, I don't know who took this or when it was published first.
All of of them have have the distinctive statue of Dr Johnson in plaster on the left-hand side, the original from the sculptor's studio that he would have carved the marble copy in St. Pauls' Cathedral. The Crystal palace Company was very proud of this fact.
By 1863 this cast was replaced by a plaster cast of Issac Newston by William Theed made in 1858, also in plaster. Here it is in bronze in Grantham.
He is just visible, in white, on the left hand-side of the image below, along with Carlo Marochetti's equestrian statue of Queen Victoria in the foreground, the final bronze version is in Glasgow.
This image, although tinted, is identical to sepia image you have posted above.
A model of Marochetti's Victoria.
The coloured view is included in Ian leith's "Delamotte's Crystal Palace" as possibly by Delamotte, and dated to around 1860 as it includes images of the Assyrian Court, which disappeared in a fire in 1866. This doesn't prove when they were published.
The commercial firm of Negretti and Zambra held very tightly to a monopoly to photograph the Crystal Palace once it was moved to Sydenham. Delamotte photograhed the re-construction of the Palace, from the first column being raised, to the opening ceremony. His views were published in copies of a book called "The progress of the Crystal palace recorded by P. H. Delamotte." He did exhibit individual prints at the time, but all the prints I've seen so far come from this book.
When he returned to the Crystal Palaec in 1859, it was preseumably in the employment of Negretti and Zambra and the Crystal Palace Art Union, as they published the prints as prizes, as well as a series of stereoviews. they had already been publishing stereoviews btween 1854 and 1859.
At this time, photographic technology was developing rapidly. Delamotte's 1854 series of photographs would have had to have been developed immediately, his book was one of the first to be illustrated with photographic prints, and even by 1859 such prints would be extremely expensive. Ian Leith's book was based on a large number appearing in one lot at auction.
The original 1859 prints were "won" in a kind of lottery, not as a collection, so as no complete list has been recorded, it is impossible to know what exactly was published, let alone how many photographs were actually taken.
There is an interesting letter from Henry Negretti published in The TIMES newspaper of 1 December 1873, and quoted in Ian Leith's book - I suggest you get a copy.
As photographic prints became cheaper, and were collected in their millions, firstly in the 1860's as the small carte de visite, and soon after with the larger cabinet cards, Negretti and zambra seemd to have made an attempt to record new images for their archive, but in the main they seemed to prefer to recycle the same images for the last 30 years of the 19th century.
What you have posted seem to be a set of the unmounted prints they sold, to be pasted into scrapbooks at a later date. I have quite a few, cut from pages of these scrapbooks years ago, and only a few definitely later than 1870. The other two were taken before the fire of 1866.
The man who owns whatever survives of the Negretti and Zambra archive, and possibly the original negatives of your prints, is Mr Simon Everitt, who posted a message just above yours!
Hope this helps.
I'm not as interested in who took a particular photo of the Crystal Palace as I am in the date it was taken, who can be sure of the first, and the second is difficult when these images were sometimes published again and again at a much later date.
Taking one of these views, the Nave from the south, which was one of the most popular photographs to take.
Published by Delamotte in 1854
Delamotte image published by the Crystal Palace Art Union and Negretti and Zambra in 1859
You can see how much the creepers have grown in the 5 years between these two images.
Here's another one, I don't know who took this or when it was published first.
All of of them have have the distinctive statue of Dr Johnson in plaster on the left-hand side, the original from the sculptor's studio that he would have carved the marble copy in St. Pauls' Cathedral. The Crystal palace Company was very proud of this fact.
By 1863 this cast was replaced by a plaster cast of Issac Newston by William Theed made in 1858, also in plaster. Here it is in bronze in Grantham.
He is just visible, in white, on the left hand-side of the image below, along with Carlo Marochetti's equestrian statue of Queen Victoria in the foreground, the final bronze version is in Glasgow.
This image, although tinted, is identical to sepia image you have posted above.
A model of Marochetti's Victoria.
The coloured view is included in Ian leith's "Delamotte's Crystal Palace" as possibly by Delamotte, and dated to around 1860 as it includes images of the Assyrian Court, which disappeared in a fire in 1866. This doesn't prove when they were published.
The commercial firm of Negretti and Zambra held very tightly to a monopoly to photograph the Crystal Palace once it was moved to Sydenham. Delamotte photograhed the re-construction of the Palace, from the first column being raised, to the opening ceremony. His views were published in copies of a book called "The progress of the Crystal palace recorded by P. H. Delamotte." He did exhibit individual prints at the time, but all the prints I've seen so far come from this book.
When he returned to the Crystal Palaec in 1859, it was preseumably in the employment of Negretti and Zambra and the Crystal Palace Art Union, as they published the prints as prizes, as well as a series of stereoviews. they had already been publishing stereoviews btween 1854 and 1859.
At this time, photographic technology was developing rapidly. Delamotte's 1854 series of photographs would have had to have been developed immediately, his book was one of the first to be illustrated with photographic prints, and even by 1859 such prints would be extremely expensive. Ian Leith's book was based on a large number appearing in one lot at auction.
The original 1859 prints were "won" in a kind of lottery, not as a collection, so as no complete list has been recorded, it is impossible to know what exactly was published, let alone how many photographs were actually taken.
There is an interesting letter from Henry Negretti published in The TIMES newspaper of 1 December 1873, and quoted in Ian Leith's book - I suggest you get a copy.
Negretti and Zambra were an commercial firm in the business of making precision instruments, barometers, meters, and equipment that required lenses, binoculars, microscopes and of course cameras. They seemed to have taken on the monopoly mainly as a way to demonstrate their goods using images of the Palace. I've posted some of their microscopic slides earlier in this thread. They weren't really a photographic company, and don't seem to have made much of the opportunity to record the development and life of the Palace, apart from portraits of the public, before they left in 1899. Even a programme of the 1890's, when more of the public began to own the own cameras, warns amateur photographers of their monopoly.as photographers to the Crystal Palace, and having the exclusive privilege of taking negatives and selling prints of the views and the works of art in that building, out of pure kindness, and without any [financial?] consideration, [we] granted permission to a society to take 12 negatives from which prints were ony yo be taken for giving away as prizes. the negatives were duly taken, the prizes given away, and after the Society was dissoolved the negatives were sold to a third party, who is selling prints from them to this very day, . . .
As photographic prints became cheaper, and were collected in their millions, firstly in the 1860's as the small carte de visite, and soon after with the larger cabinet cards, Negretti and zambra seemd to have made an attempt to record new images for their archive, but in the main they seemed to prefer to recycle the same images for the last 30 years of the 19th century.
What you have posted seem to be a set of the unmounted prints they sold, to be pasted into scrapbooks at a later date. I have quite a few, cut from pages of these scrapbooks years ago, and only a few definitely later than 1870. The other two were taken before the fire of 1866.
The man who owns whatever survives of the Negretti and Zambra archive, and possibly the original negatives of your prints, is Mr Simon Everitt, who posted a message just above yours!
Hope this helps.
Last edited by tulse hill terry on 8 Apr 2018 14:06, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 1
- Joined: 18 May 2011 08:23
- Location: Jedburgh, Scotland
Re: A Walk through the Nave of the Crystal Palace 1854
Further to comments about local photograher, Thomas Everett, I have attached a photo dated 1903, thought to be of an ancester of mine with a string of horses at Crystal Palace in 1903. Photo by Everett.
Any background on this photo would be appreciated.
Any background on this photo would be appreciated.
-
- Posts: 688
- Joined: 25 Jun 2007 01:33
- Location: sarf lunnen
Re: A Walk through the Nave of the Crystal Palace 1854
Some images I recently acquired, one sheet is titled 'Fairy Archipelago. Crystal Palace.' and in pencil '1905.'
Egyptian Court
South Nave "WORK DONE BY PAST AND PRESENT STUDENTS OF THE CRYSTAL PALACE COMPANY SCHOOL OF ART."
Alhambra Court
Egyptian Court
Egyptian Court.
Egyptian Court.
Alhambra Court.
Fairy Archipelago.
'CANADIAN TOPSY TURVY RAILWAY.
Egyptian Court
South Nave "WORK DONE BY PAST AND PRESENT STUDENTS OF THE CRYSTAL PALACE COMPANY SCHOOL OF ART."
Alhambra Court
Egyptian Court
Egyptian Court.
Egyptian Court.
Alhambra Court.
Fairy Archipelago.
'CANADIAN TOPSY TURVY RAILWAY.
"There was a similar ride at Crystal Palace which opened in August 1902 and was removed in 1909. It was known as the Canadian Topsy Turvy Railway, and it seems likely that this is the same ride as appeared at the Eastham Pleasure Gardens from 1909.
If it is the same ride, the four seater cars went around a roller coaster-style track of 350 yards. The highest point was 48 foot, and the loop was a mere 35 foot high!
http://www.funfairreports.co.uk/oldforu ... 3985305447
Crystal Palace School of Physical Culture "established in November 1899 and under the direction of Mr Eugene Sandrow. The room was located in the neighbourhood of the north tower. There were separate departments for ladies and gentlemen. Every branch of athletic endeavour and physical culture (except weightlifting) was available."
http://www.crystal.dircon.co.uk/mrskpg.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugen_Sandow
On 24th July 1913, at Crystal Palace, London, Edward Aston became the first Englishman to lift 300 lb overhead with one hand.http://www.davidgentle.com/articles/single.htm
Last edited by tulse hill terry on 25 Aug 2011 14:20, edited 3 times in total.
Re: A Walk through the Nave of the Crystal Palace 1854
Great pics! thanks for posting.
Re: A Walk through the Nave of the Crystal Palace 1854
Wow, amazing, thanks for sharing!!!
-
- Posts: 688
- Joined: 25 Jun 2007 01:33
- Location: sarf lunnen
Re: A Walk through the Nave of the Crystal Palace 1854
Just discovered that this recreation of the Bath Temple created for the Festival of Empire of 1911, still exists on the other side of the world.
Image from this thread http://forum.sydenham.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1485
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30120216@N ... otostream/
Alfred J Taylor architect was author of 'The Roman Baths of Bath.'
There is an identical Temple of Minerva in Victoria Park, Bath. Though there are two versions of it's history, one that it was erected for the the Bath Pageant of 1909 and another that it was first made for the Wembley Exhibition of 1924.
1909 http://www.cityofbath.co.uk/Parks_rec/b ... rdens.html
1924 http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk ... nerva-bath
Position of the Temple of Minerva on the Lower Terrace at Crystal Palace for the Festival of Empire 1911.
Image from this thread http://forum.sydenham.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1485
Sydney Gardens, Bath.
Minerva's Temple.
By AJ Taylor.
Built to promote Bath at the Festival of Empire Exhibition at Crystal Palace in 1911. Re-erected here 1913.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30120216@N ... otostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30120216@N ... otostream/
Alfred J Taylor architect was author of 'The Roman Baths of Bath.'
There is an identical Temple of Minerva in Victoria Park, Bath. Though there are two versions of it's history, one that it was erected for the the Bath Pageant of 1909 and another that it was first made for the Wembley Exhibition of 1924.
1909 http://www.cityofbath.co.uk/Parks_rec/b ... rdens.html
1924 http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk ... nerva-bath
Position of the Temple of Minerva on the Lower Terrace at Crystal Palace for the Festival of Empire 1911.
-
- Posts: 688
- Joined: 25 Jun 2007 01:33
- Location: sarf lunnen
Re: A Walk through the Nave of the Crystal Palace 1854
Another random piece on the Festival of Empire seems to answer the question in this thread here. http://forum.sydenham.org.uk/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0 When were the Water Temples demolished ?
http://www.pictorialgems.com/The-Daily- ... amids.2188
The Daily Graphic, Wednesday February 8 1911.
THE SITE OF THE GREAT WATER TOWER WHICH HAS BEEN DEMOLISHED IN THE GROUNDS OF THE CRYSTAL PALACE TO MAKE WAY FOR THE EMPIRE FESTIVAL BUILDINGS, INSET - MR. FRANK LASCELLES, THE MASTER OF THE FESTIVAL, EXPLAINING THE PROGRESS OF THE WORK TO VISITORS.
("Daily Graphic photographs.") (See page ?)
http://www.pictorialgems.com/The-Daily- ... amids.2188
I'm not quite sure about the Water Temples, although I could look into it... I know the waterworks were filled in/demolished in the following order:
1) Stone Arcade in the 1880s (structural problems)
2) Grand Fountains (1894)
3) Water Temples (1904?)*
4) Central Fountain converted into a Bandstand (1910) for Festival of Empire then converted back into a fountain.
5) Upper Fountains and Cascades (1950s).
Water Temple and Cascades.
Water Temple, Cascades and Stone Arcades.
Stone Arcade gone by 1889.
Grand Fountains filled in, in 1894 (Water Temples and Cascades still visible above Cycle/Speedway Track)
Water Temples with Statues on top.
Water Temples without Statues on top.
Statues must have been removed before Water Temples were demolished.
Football Stadium and Cycle Track after 1911. Central Basin is still a Bandstand. Water Temples have been demolished. Cascades survive underneath buildings (circled).
Central basin converted back into a fountain, but innactive and now derelict (1950s).
Derelict upper fountain (1950s).
Derelict Cascades (1950 - 1955).
*I'm sure I remember Ken Kiss telling me the Water Temples were standing until a date between 1900 - 1910. I think he said 1904, but I can't swear to it...
-
- Posts: 688
- Joined: 25 Jun 2007 01:33
- Location: sarf lunnen
Re: A Walk through the Nave of the Crystal Palace 1854
Last edited by tulse hill terry on 8 Apr 2018 14:07, edited 1 time in total.
Re: A Walk through the Nave of the Crystal Palace 1854
Hello everybody *waves*!
Long-time lurker finally decided to register and post.
I could use some help (and in case this isn't the right thread to post in, please kindly point me to one that is or advise me to open my own!).
I'm creating a 3D walkable, photographable digital version of the Crystal Palace in SecondLife (that's an online 3D environment - I refuse to call it 'game' since it's not! - in case you've never heard of it).
So far I've created the outer building (that is, the CP in general), the Crystal Fountain and a few other things.
Now I'm venturing into re-creating the courts (and keep telling people that no matter how often they tell me that 'the building is finished!', it will probably never be! *lol*).
I'm starting with the Egyptian Court, and have come across a few problems, since the images that are available don't necessarily show the angles that I could use.
Note that I only need the pictures to be able to build the 3D model of the Egyptian Court properly and to get the textures (that's "how walls, statues, columns etc look in SecondLife") right.
So, here's one of the parts where I need help:
I'm looking for pictures or illustrations of:
- the inside of the Beni Hassan tomb;
- view from the center nave to the court of Amunothph;
- entrance to the inner court from center nave and 'Greek' side;
- entrance to the hall of Karnac colums from the 'Greek' side;
- more pictures of the Egyptian museum (other than the one apparently taken from that center nave entrance, with the white statue and the row of columns);
- the entrance of the tomb of Aboo Simbel.
Thanks in advance,
Naergi
ETA:
Since I'm at it... after the fire of 1866, the Crystal Palace was pretty much assymetrical. Since I seem pretty much incapable of finding pictures of the burned down part *before* it burned down from the outside (preferrable aerial), can anyone tell me if north and south side *looked* symmetrical before it burned down, meaning both with a cross section and a ton-shaped roof?
Also, my native language is not English. Please point mistakes I make out, so I can improve. Thank you
Long-time lurker finally decided to register and post.
I could use some help (and in case this isn't the right thread to post in, please kindly point me to one that is or advise me to open my own!).
I'm creating a 3D walkable, photographable digital version of the Crystal Palace in SecondLife (that's an online 3D environment - I refuse to call it 'game' since it's not! - in case you've never heard of it).
So far I've created the outer building (that is, the CP in general), the Crystal Fountain and a few other things.
Now I'm venturing into re-creating the courts (and keep telling people that no matter how often they tell me that 'the building is finished!', it will probably never be! *lol*).
I'm starting with the Egyptian Court, and have come across a few problems, since the images that are available don't necessarily show the angles that I could use.
Note that I only need the pictures to be able to build the 3D model of the Egyptian Court properly and to get the textures (that's "how walls, statues, columns etc look in SecondLife") right.
So, here's one of the parts where I need help:
I'm looking for pictures or illustrations of:
- the inside of the Beni Hassan tomb;
- view from the center nave to the court of Amunothph;
- entrance to the inner court from center nave and 'Greek' side;
- entrance to the hall of Karnac colums from the 'Greek' side;
- more pictures of the Egyptian museum (other than the one apparently taken from that center nave entrance, with the white statue and the row of columns);
- the entrance of the tomb of Aboo Simbel.
Thanks in advance,
Naergi
ETA:
Since I'm at it... after the fire of 1866, the Crystal Palace was pretty much assymetrical. Since I seem pretty much incapable of finding pictures of the burned down part *before* it burned down from the outside (preferrable aerial), can anyone tell me if north and south side *looked* symmetrical before it burned down, meaning both with a cross section and a ton-shaped roof?
Also, my native language is not English. Please point mistakes I make out, so I can improve. Thank you
-
- Posts: 688
- Joined: 25 Jun 2007 01:33
- Location: sarf lunnen
Re: A Walk through the Nave of the Crystal Palace 1854
Great news, can you post some picture here ? I'm sure your English is better than my German.I'm creating a 3D walkable, photographable digital version of the Crystal Palace in SecondLife
Well, we'd all like an exhaustive photographic survey of the whole building, but are stuck with what Delamotte, Negretti & Zambra, the London Stereoscopic Company and Russell & Sons took, before the idea of a photographic monopoly at the Crystal Palace was given up by 1911. After that its down to Arthur Talbot, Alan Warwick and what comes up in periodicals till the building burnt down in 1936. There's no central archive, and images from these sources are spread through many libraries, museums and private collections.I'm starting with the Egyptian Court, and have come across a few problems, since the images that are available don't necessarily show the angles that I could use. Note that I only need the pictures to be able to build the 3D model of the Egyptian Court
You could try 'Falkor's virtual tour of the Egyptian Court (Crystal Palace)'
http://forum.sydenham.org.uk/viewtopic. ... ourt#p9627
That's quite a list !I'm looking for pictures or illustrations of:
- the inside of the Beni Hassan tomb;
- view from the center nave to the court of Amunothph;
- entrance to the inner court from center nave and 'Greek' side;
- entrance to the hall of Karnac colums from the 'Greek' side;
- more pictures of the Egyptian museum (other than the one apparently taken from that center nave entrance, with the white statue and the row of columns);
- the entrance of the tomb of Aboo Simbel.
"The inside of the Beni Hassan tomb." The image below from the Museum of London via Falkor's thread is the most unusual one I know. I'm guessing it was identical on all four sides.
view from the center nave to the court of Amunothph;
"Entrance to the inner court from center nave, and 'Greek' [Vestibule] side;
There are lots of images of this on the thread mentioned and on this forum.
"Entrance to the Hall of Karnac colums from the 'Greek' side."
Again plenty around,
"More pictures of the Egyptian museum (other than the one apparently taken from that center nave entrance, with the white statue and the row of columns)"
I think there are many who wished there were more. That's a Delamotte image, but even the later stereoviews, and Arthur Talbot's colur image are all taken from the same angle.
"The entrance of the tomb of Aboo Simbel."
The image below, from my own collection and posted above, is the only one I've seen taken so far back.
I know a collector with a large aerial photograph of the Egyptian Court, showing more of the Court than would have been visible when the Palace stood, though I have yet to obtain a copy, despite asking.
There maybe others who may have more to offer, either here online or by trying the Crystal Palace Foundation or the Crystal Palace Museum. There is a book especially devoted to the Egyptian court to come out soon. I will post on here when I know more.
The north end burnt down, as you say in 1866, and despite much 'ballooning2 at the Palace, aerial photography of the Palace doesn't seem to have taken place until after the First World War.Since I'm at it... after the fire of 1866, the Crystal Palace was pretty much assymetrical.
Since I seem pretty much incapable of finding pictures of the burned down part *before* it burned down from the outside (preferrable aerial), can anyone tell me if north and south side *looked* symmetrical before it burned down, meaning both with a cross section and a ton-shaped roof?
There is this Baxtor print of the Parade side of the Palace, taken looking south and showing the north end. Source Bridgeman Art Library via "Crystal Palace in Colour." http://forum.sydenham.org.uk/viewtopic. ... +in+colour
The building was symetrical both along and across, though there was an extra width on the garden side of 3 units of 8 feet. This is difficult to show without a floor plan, which I will have to dig out and scan.
The other thing to remember if trying to recreate the building is that all of the floor plan (except for the wings) was always a multiple of the 3 x 8 feet = 24 feet. Both the basement and the ground floor were also 24 feet high. All the floors above were 4 feet shorter, as they missed out the 4 foot high panel at the base. If you don't take this into account, your recreation will be too tall, as was my first model.
I'm not sure what you mean by "a ton-shaped roof."
Of course there may be others who can offer additional information. Good luck with your model.
-
- Posts: 688
- Joined: 25 Jun 2007 01:33
- Location: sarf lunnen
Re: A Walk through the Nave of the Crystal Palace 1854
This is the map I was looking for, they want £60.94 for this one !
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1852-NEW-CRYS ... 27bf725ddb
If you right click 'view image' or save it and then view it will be possible to see more detail, This came out before the Crystal Palace opened (1852) so the internal arrangement wasn't exactly like this.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1852-NEW-CRYS ... 27bf725ddb
If you right click 'view image' or save it and then view it will be possible to see more detail, This came out before the Crystal Palace opened (1852) so the internal arrangement wasn't exactly like this.
Last edited by tulse hill terry on 2 Jun 2012 10:07, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 688
- Joined: 25 Jun 2007 01:33
- Location: sarf lunnen
Re: A Walk through the Nave of the Crystal Palace 1854
Just bought this.
THE CYCLE AND MOTOR WORLD. DECEMBER 16 1896.
Interesting (to me anyway) for showing how much was rearranged for temporary trade shows, bringing as they did much needed income. The Roman Court has been completely emptied of statuary to show the rambler bikes of Gormfully and Jeffrey. It also shows how Negretti & Zambra kept their photographic monopoly for nearly 50 years.
And from another article, "THE NEW CRYSTAL PALACE CYCLE TRACK. September 1896"
This replaced one of the huge fountain basins at the bottom of the park, the swimming pool took it place in turn.
"Cycle racing at the Crystal Palace" No date but "photo by J. Russell & Sons" so 1900 - 11.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cycle-Racing- ... 53e96f529b
THE CYCLE AND MOTOR WORLD. DECEMBER 16 1896.
Interesting (to me anyway) for showing how much was rearranged for temporary trade shows, bringing as they did much needed income. The Roman Court has been completely emptied of statuary to show the rambler bikes of Gormfully and Jeffrey. It also shows how Negretti & Zambra kept their photographic monopoly for nearly 50 years.
And from another article, "THE NEW CRYSTAL PALACE CYCLE TRACK. September 1896"
This replaced one of the huge fountain basins at the bottom of the park, the swimming pool took it place in turn.
"Cycle racing at the Crystal Palace" No date but "photo by J. Russell & Sons" so 1900 - 11.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cycle-Racing- ... 53e96f529b
Re: A Walk through the Nave of the Crystal Palace 1854
Of course I can:tulse hill terry wrote:Great news, can you post some picture here ? I'm sure your English is better than my German.I'm creating a 3D walkable, photographable digital version of the Crystal Palace in SecondLife
Note that these pictures from SL show the 'work in progress'. Also, since SL land isn't exactly cheap, the building will also have to house my store (which I basically have to be able to pay for that land), so you'll probably see quite a few things that weren't at the original Crystal Palace.
The courts are work in progress and therefore still missing in those pictures, but I'll get back to that in a moment.
But you'll probably already notice that I even have Victoria Regia, on some of the leaves the avatars can even stand
In the beginning I even had no less than *three* Crystal Fountains in the Palace because people liked it so much. By now I've reduced that number to the correct 'one'.
Thank you, I found that thread about a day after asking hereYou could try 'Falkor's virtual tour of the Egyptian Court (Crystal Palace)'
http://forum.sydenham.org.uk/viewtopic. ... ourt#p9627
I've kinda helped myself by now with pictures of the original tomb.That's quite a list !
"The inside of the Beni Hassan tomb." The image below from the Museum of London via Falkor's thread is the most unusual one I know. I'm guessing it was identical on all four sides.
One of them can be seen on this page: http://proteus.brown.edu/introtoegypt09/9000 - I'm pretty sure you'll immediately recognize it when you see it, just because of the four columns
Thank you. I've by now adjusted my build to that symmetricalness (which doesn't show yet in the pictures I posted above). I do have a floor plan, thank you - that's after all how I started building it:There is this Baxtor print of the Parade side of the Palace, taken looking south and showing the north end. Source Bridgeman Art Library via "Crystal Palace in Colour." http://forum.sydenham.org.uk/viewtopic. ... +in+colour
Some SL specific technical details...The other thing to remember if trying to recreate the building is that all of the floor plan (except for the wings) was always a multiple of the 3 x 8 feet = 24 feet. Both the basement and the ground floor were also 24 feet high. All the floors above were 4 feet shorter, as they missed out the 4 foot high panel at the base. If you don't take this into account, your recreation will be too tall, as was my first model.
Land in SL is defined by 'simulators', or 'sims', in short. Each 'sim' is, simply spoken, one server in SL; and each has land of 256x256 meters available. Crossing between two of those 'sims' (you can see other sims from the one you're currently on) is a tad, shall we say, difficult (people usually end up in the floor for a few moments etc.).
Also, I 'only' have 3/4 of the land that one sim provides at hand. So basically, my reproduction is a bit less than half the scale of the original Crystal Palace, spanning the entire width of one sim.
I tried to get the scale of the upper floors right by... counting windows in photos. Seriously. Crazy, but it works for the most part
Sorry, my mistake of trying to directly translate from the German expression. What I mean are the basically half-cylinder shaped roofs of the nave and the cross-sections. That's, in German, called a 'ton-shaped roof' (ein tonnenförmiges Dach).I'm not sure what you mean by "a ton-shaped roof."
Today, after about 100 hours of working on the models and textures, I've started to install the first pieces of the Egyptian Court to my Crystal Palace.
I've helped myself to build this by basically using the floor plan of the Egyptian court and photos of the original Egyptian court, which I placed on that floor plan (in other words, a diorama). And I'm doing this in Blender (modeling software) so I can cam around my diorama and use it to precisely place (and scale!) the things I sculpt (which is basically the term of SL people for modeling something ).
One pic of what I brought of that court into SL so far:
...that's what it looks like if the hall of columns is NOT in place, but its facade and the Aboo Simbel temple are (minus the sphinxes and lions, that is).
...and yes, I know the wall textures aren't exactly correct yet - they're basically just placeholders. Same for the model textures, by the way; though I'll definitely go for a slightly 'cracked' look for all of them, not the 'smooth' finish that the original Egyptian court had (which would have actually been much easier to do!). It's just a personal choice.
Best wishes,
Naergi
-
- Posts: 688
- Joined: 25 Jun 2007 01:33
- Location: sarf lunnen
Re: A Walk through the Nave of the Crystal Palace 1854
It's beautiful ! It catches the light and colour beautifully, something forgotten with all the sepia images left.
I have been round the online recreation of the Great Exhibition. I'll add some screen caps to this post when I have the time.
I don't think there is anyway around counting windows. No plans specific to the Sydenham Crystal Palace seem to survive, and it's assumed that they may have disappeared in the 1936 fire.
I understand your problem regards the footprint of the building, and as for using it as a store, that's what half the building was intended to be.
Here's a very rough sketch to show what I mean about the height of the floors. All parts of the floorplan, except for the wings, were square, but the floors weren't. I can see by your images, that you've inculded the base panels to the top of the building, as I did before I realised this wasn't the case.
I didn't have space to show the basement on a sheet of A4, so this view should be read from the parade as opposed to the Garden side which had a basement.
As you can see, the first floor and above, although 24 feet wide every 3 x 8 feet section, was only 20 feet high. the two units recently re- erected as Paxton's Corner on the site [which I haven't found a decent image of yet] are also only 20 feet high, missing as they do the seperate base panel section. The Palace building was famous for being created with all these seperate components.
A fantastic piece of work. Congratulations !
I have been round the online recreation of the Great Exhibition. I'll add some screen caps to this post when I have the time.
I don't think there is anyway around counting windows. No plans specific to the Sydenham Crystal Palace seem to survive, and it's assumed that they may have disappeared in the 1936 fire.
I understand your problem regards the footprint of the building, and as for using it as a store, that's what half the building was intended to be.
Here's a very rough sketch to show what I mean about the height of the floors. All parts of the floorplan, except for the wings, were square, but the floors weren't. I can see by your images, that you've inculded the base panels to the top of the building, as I did before I realised this wasn't the case.
I didn't have space to show the basement on a sheet of A4, so this view should be read from the parade as opposed to the Garden side which had a basement.
As you can see, the first floor and above, although 24 feet wide every 3 x 8 feet section, was only 20 feet high. the two units recently re- erected as Paxton's Corner on the site [which I haven't found a decent image of yet] are also only 20 feet high, missing as they do the seperate base panel section. The Palace building was famous for being created with all these seperate components.
A fantastic piece of work. Congratulations !
-
- Posts: 688
- Joined: 25 Jun 2007 01:33
- Location: sarf lunnen
Re: A Walk through the Nave of the Crystal Palace 1854
Not by me !
[youtubes]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yow5E_v7MgE[/youtubes]
And a very avant garde interpretation of the fire
http://vimeo.com/30940369
[youtubes]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yow5E_v7MgE[/youtubes]
And a very avant garde interpretation of the fire
http://vimeo.com/30940369
-
- Posts: 688
- Joined: 25 Jun 2007 01:33
- Location: sarf lunnen
Re: A Walk through the Nave of the Crystal Palace 1854
FAITH HEALING AT THE CRYSTAL PALACE.
21ST ANNIVERSARY OF FOURSQUARE GOSPEL ALLIANCE.
Sick and crippled people hoping that htey would be cured by divine power attended the Healin Service conducted by Prinicpal George Jeffreys in the Concert Hall of the Crystal Palace London, in connection witht he 21st anniversary celebrations of the Elim Foursquare Gospel alliance, a revivalist movement.
PHOTO SHOW.- Prinicpal George Jeffreys laying on hands at the Healing service.
AB September 5 1936 PN. r.
Copyright PLANET NEWS Ltd
Hhonsons Court Londond E.C.4
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1936-Faith-He ... 2318308e95
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Jef ... 8pastor%29
-
- Posts: 688
- Joined: 25 Jun 2007 01:33
- Location: sarf lunnen
Re: A Walk through the Nave of the Crystal Palace 1854
THE CHILDREN'S EXHIBTION AT THE CRYSTAL PALACE.
Christmas is the one section of the year when the Crystal Palace defy competition and can draw all the children from town and country under the shelter of its great glass roof, and this success is due tot he Management's wise determination to devote the Vhristams programme tot he little ones. In too many places, London ? the children under false pretences, given music-hall entertainment under the name of pantomime, and offers much that children cannot understand, though it may amuse their parents and guardians. At the Crystal Palace, on the other hand, the requirements of the children dictate the Christmas programme and nothing that they will not care for is to be found.
This year, while there is to be a circus, A pantomime, and a very large Christmas-tree, there is another attraction that will prove a serious rival to the old established institutions, It is a Children's Exhibition in which everything associated witht he wonderful period of life called childhood may be seen and admired. this exhibtion, which is being held in the Galleries, so as to leave the Central Transept free for the Circus and the North Nave free for skating, is a very comprehensive undertaking. It includes an International Toy Fair, with French, German, Austrian, and Italian sections, showing how the art of toy-making has advanced in the past few years, and exhibiting the very latest wonders in the shape of mechanical toys. France has sent laughing babies, uniformed policemen, travellers, soldiers, Chinamen, toy moptor-cars that can run along a road, and other wonderful things too numerous to mention. Germany sends a model railway, with passenger-trains, goods-trains, stations, electric signals, and all the other things connected with an up-to-date train service; she also sends submarine-boats and air-ships. From austria come some mechanical acrobats whose work is supringly dainty, a wonderful monkey-nurse, and two small bears, very much alive, that performs on drum and tambourine. Italy sends some of the curious native work one sees in the cathedrals and at wayside shrines and chapels, cardboard figures set on a plaster-of-Paris foundation, and two landscapes worked in cork.
There are military toys of all sorts, shapes, and sizes: there are splendid dolls, and an open competition in doll-dressing, with substantial prizes for the winners: there is a section devoted entirely to children's books, containing all the most delightful stories from fairyland that were ever set down for nursery reading. After the Toy section, I expect the books will be most in favour with the young patrons of the Exhibtion.
Section Number two is divided into two parts. the first is quite satisfactory, and takes the form of a model nursery, showing exactly what ought to be there and where it should be. For the second part of Section Two there is, I fear, very little favour in store. Only the Management's undertaking to shwo everything connected with childhood can excuse the presence of such an exhibit. It is a model school-room. Now, a school-room is out of place during the Christmas holidays that it is quite impossible to say a good word for it.
Perhaps the attractions of the Exhibtion's Third Section, will atone for the shortcomings of the latter half of the Second, for Section Three is devoted to the late Queen, and there is a Victoria Room, with the doll's-house that the queen used to play with in days when few people thought she would come to the Throne of Great Britain, a bedstead on which she slept on when no more than a very little girl, many illustrations of her favourite dolls, and some of the clothes she wore when a child. Altogether, this Thrid Section will be found full of interest and will attract a good deal of attention from children and grown-ups alike. There are many other curious exhibits, and a word should be said of the portrait-gallery of pretty children, which, naturally enough, comprises some of the most attractive features in the Crystal Palace.
Altogether, the Childrens Exhibtion, which opened on the 9th, when Sousa brought his band to Sydenham for the day, is one of the most promising navelties in the way of entertainment that has been undertaken for a long time, and, while it may confidently expected to delight the littleones, it will give their parents many new and most valuable ideas that must make for the children's increased comfort and happiness. Perhaps, on this ground, even the school-room finds a justification.
Needless, to say, all the experts and other people who have given long study to the subject of children's well-being have been consulted, and nothing has been forgotten that makes their work complete. Taken in connection with the usual Christmas attractions of the Crystal Palace, it makes a wonderful entertainment: it is safe to say that no other establishment in Great Britain has catered for the little ones more generously or wisely. To find a novel idea and develop it on novel lines is far from easy; but Mr Gillman has succeeded in his undertaking, and the thanks of the children will not be the leat part of his reward.
The Sketch 1901