Cyclist mows down Sydenham pedestrian

[maestro]

2 mile cycle chase results in an arrest........
http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/93074 ... _puncture/

[Rachael]

Alternative (more positive title) for this thread: PCSO gives chase on bike and catches criminal

[cyclesteve]

Well done that officer !! Too many ruddy youffs think nothing of belting along cycling on the pavement thinking they got a right to do so.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[maestro]

Alternative (more positive title) for this thread: PCSO gives chase on bike and catches criminal

or...

Prostrate Pedestrian Provokes Punctured Plastic Plod to Persistently Pedal Proficiently in Pursuit of Problem Pleb. Punishment Pending.

[Barry]

or...

Prostrate Pedestrian Provokes Punctured Plastic Plod to Persistently Pedal Proficiently in Pursuit of Problem Pleb. Punishment Pending.

What was wrong with his prostrate?

[ALIB]

Fantastic effort by the PCSO.

Cyclists on pavements are a real menace, and it won't be long before someone is seriously injured

[ALIB]

or...

Prostrate Pedestrian Provokes Punctured Plastic Plod to Persistently Pedal Proficiently in Pursuit of Problem Pleb. Punishment Pending.

What was wrong with his prostrate?

prostate ?

[Voyageur]

Good on the PCSO! Cyclists on pavements are a pet hate of mine, in fact out makes me positively fume. I remember working in casualty when a man was blue lighted in having been knocked down by a cyclist pelting along a pavement - sadly he subsequently died.

The only exception I would make is a nipper on a wee bike with stabilisers - but only then when looked after by an adult. A kiddy not in control of his trike can still cause injuries.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[stuart]

Cyclists on pavements are a pet hate of mine, in fact out makes me positively fume. I remember working in casualty when a man was blue lighted in having been knocked down by a cyclist pelting along a pavement - sadly he subsequently died.

When and where was that?

Stuart

[Voyageur]

Cyclists on pavements are a pet hate of mine, in fact out makes me positively fume. I remember working in casualty when a man was blue lighted in having been knocked down by a cyclist pelting along a pavement - sadly he subsequently died.

When and where was that?

Stuart

London. Can't remember the actual date.

[stuart]

London. Can't remember the actual date.

I asked because the number of pedestrians killed on the pavement in the whole UK is about 1 per decade. I didn't think your incident was one of them.

You may have been thinking of November 2007 when a 76 year old man died in Lewisham after being coming into contact with a cyclist. However no pavements were involved. BOTH were on the road.

The 2001/5 stats (just the first lot I could find and not cherry picked) had 17 pedestrians killed in London in 2001-5 by motor vehicles on pavements or verges, and not a single cyclist.

Cyclists can be a real nuisance but rarely dangerous. Whereas haulage lorries are rarely a nuisance but a real, constant and growing danger to us. Surely we should first focus (and fume?) on those and other major killers of vulnerable road and pavement users?

Stuart

[Voyageur]

London. Can't remember the actual date.

I asked because the number of pedestrians killed on the pavement in the whole UK is about 1 per decade. I didn't think your incident was one of them.

You may have been thinking of November 2007 when a 76 year old man died in Lewisham after being coming into contact with a cyclist. However no pavements were involved. BOTH were on the road.

The 2001/5 stats (just the first lot I could find and not cherry picked) had 17 pedestrians killed in London in 2001-5 by motor vehicles on pavements or verges, and not a single cyclist.

Cyclists can be a real nuisance but rarely dangerous. Whereas haulage lorries are rarely a nuisance but a real, constant and growing danger to us. Surely we should first focus (and fume?) on those and other major killers of vulnerable road and pavement users?

Stuart

I did a bit of googling and whilst it is a low number of deaths it is certainly more than 1 per decade. The man I recall died a few days after the collision so it may not have been recorded in the relevant stats. I do remember a few serious injuries too though over the years where cyclists had hit pedestrians on pavements.

I would support far stiffer penalties for cyclists that use pavements. There are more people cycling these days and I have noticed far more using pavements and expecting pedestrians to leap out of their way.

http://road.cc/content/news/6442-cyclis ... ment-death

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ement.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/jul/09/ukcrime

http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news ... h_cyclist/

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/ ... tm?t=57627

http://road.cc/content/news/15307-pavem ... rous-cycle

[stuart]

I apologise. I got it wrong. The figure of one per decade applies to London.

However you again exaggerate your claim by including:
a) people who did not die
b) cyclists who were not shown to be on the pavement

Excusable because some of the newspaper reports have been shown to be wrong when referred back to the police or the court. You may be relieved to hear that the Guardian is more to blame than the Mail on one occasion

The inclusion of your anecdote is still highly questionable. Either it was Chico Mwamba in which case it doesn't apply or the death was at such an interval that it shouldn't be counted as the cause (and anyway the equilivent deaths following motor vehicle strikes would also be discounted) not making any difference to the relative dangers of PEDESTRIANS ON PAVEMENTS being twenty times or more at risk from motor vehicles.

You then use this to justify stiffer penalties for pavement cycling (although in many places this is perfectly legal) and that where it is not - particularly in the Cities of Westminster & London it is enforced and penalised in a much more aggressive way then to those who actually do the killing and illegally occupy pavement space forcing pedestrians and prams into the road.

And please do not forget the excuse that many use for cycling on the pavement "it is too dangerous to cycle on the road". I disagree but I do sympathise. And it is surely better for us all that they do that then go by car? (I speak even as a motorist myself).

Stuart

[Voyageur]

Stuart,

Apology accepted.

I am not swayed remotely by your arguments - especially your inclusion of 'relative dangers of PEDESTRIANS ON PAVEMENTS being twenty times or more at risk from motor vehicles'. I know the dangers of crossing the road - what I highly object to is the increase of pavement cyclists. I am fed up with having to move out of their way as they bear down on me on pavements.

As to my 'anecdote', I am not overly fussed over your scepticism. I know what occurred on the day he was brought in and I know what happened subsequently - the fact that the death appears to have been subsequently mistakenly recorded doesn't negate the fact that it happened.

It appears that we will have to agree to differ on the subject of pavement cyclists. I remain of the opinion that they are a menace and should be fined heavily when they offend to act as a deterrent.

[stuart]

... what I highly object to is the increase of pavement cyclists. I am fed up with having to move out of their way as they bear down on me on pavements.

This is an arguement I hear quite often. One I find personally puzzling.

Tonight I did a 6 mile run from Crystal Palace via Lordship lane, Dulwich Village, College Road and back to Sydenham. I did not encounter a single pavement cyclist. I did encounter dozens of cars illegally parked on the pavement. Happily none hit me. This is quite normal. Its been months since I had a close encounter with a pavement cyclist - and I suspect I walk/run more than you.

So we see two different worldviews. Or do these people personally target you? I have to suggest the statistics are not with you. And as I'm sure your realise people can be very bad at assessing risk.

The problem this causes, and one I feel strongly about, is that police resources are diverted from serious threats to life and limb to chasing nuisances. It should not be a problem if we had mutual respect as happens in many countries but if you check the newspaper feedback here you find an extraordinary amount of hatred between road and pavement users which benefits no one.

Stuart

[Voyageur]

Stuart, maybe you live a charmed life. And as you saying that you suspect that you walk/run more often than me well you don't know anything about me

I have to move out of the way of a pavement cyclist at least 2-3 times a week. I resent that fact. I also disagree with pavement cyclist apologists so I am afraid that you will just need to accept that. As I said, we will have to agree to differ - it is quite possible you know.

[michael]

It's funny how so many cyclists claim not to see many pavement cyclists. I've been collecting images from Google Streetview of pavement cyclists in the local area to help good cyclists understand the extent of the problem.

http://g.co/maps/2ynmu
http://g.co/maps/zdnv7
http://g.co/maps/j4cfc
http://g.co/maps/mm2sv
http://g.co/maps/nv7vx
Just five instances in millions of miles of road photographed by Google but probably not the only five.
This evening on my way to Beckenham I saw a cyclist hop onto the pavement due to a traffic jam waiting at temporary traffic lights, in the dark. This lunch time I saw a cyclist riding between tables by a cafe near my office.

Cycling on the pavement may result in far fewer casualties than crashes between cars and cyclists or pedestrians, but it does not make it right. If cyclists feel that the road is too dangerous for them to cycle, they should get off and push, not cycle on the pavement.

[stuart]

... well you don't know anything about me

Yes I do

If cyclists feel that the road is too dangerous for them to cycle, they should get off and push, not cycle on the pavement.

That reads "give up cycling" (its easier to walk than push a bike). Is it not your role to protect the vulnerable, to promote sustainable transport and your green agenda? Condoning dangerous driving but coming down hard on its victims because some people don't like them?

You are not seeking to find ways for the different modes of transport to happily co-exist as they do in other (dare one say in more civilised) countries with more enlightened politicians.

May be you are the real problem?

<duck>Stuart</duck>

[stuart]

It's funny how so many cyclists claim not to see many pavement cyclists. I've been collecting images from Google Streetview of pavement cyclists in the local area to help good cyclists understand the extent of the problem.

http://g.co/maps/2ynmu

I got no further than your first example. Look at it again - i think it says a lot about your lack of appreciation of the issues.

First it is a lone cyclist with no one else around he could be possibly intimidating and there is no way you could suppose he is riding fast, furious or in any other unacceptable manner.

Of course the pavement is not ideal for him. Look behind - it appears to be completely blocked by parked scooters. Do you think the shop owner has the right to block all users of the pathway? Should they have precedence?

Not to mention assorted other anti-social obstructions - such as bins (well forgive me if its collection day but I have a feeling it was not).

So why does this nasty man set out to upset you by posing on a bike on Streetview? Look in the foreground. We have the infamous steel railings creating the death trap for a roadside cyclist with no escape for close passing vehicles (and you do need one).

And the guy well may be popping down to the local shop. Is he supposed to manhandle his bike over those railings or cut round causing no harm to anyone? Or should he get in his car (can't park because of red lines) and go to Savacentre instead? That's what many have done which leaves local shops derelict like the one behind.

That picture is worth a thousand words. It tells a story but not the one I think you want to hear.

I'm with you and V on anti-social cycling. But it appears you two may also be against social cycling though it may be because you really haven't thought it through.

Stuart

[michael]

So I point out breaking the law and I am first accused of being the 'real problem' and then accused of having all sorts of agendas and roles which make me personally responsible for all the problems with roads. I'm a bit confused as to why it is all my fault.

The cyclist in the first photo was heading for the health centre across the road, in the following images he cycles across the road and down the footpath to the health centre. At least I assume that is where he was heading rather than using the car park as a short cut. To describe him as a social cyclist and implying that his behaviour is perfectly justified is just adding to the problem of cyclists feeling they are entitled to cycle wherever they wish. Like the guy I saw this morning cycling across the crowded footbridge at London Bridge station, is it really so wrong to expect him to push it?