Can any of you give me advice? I know of a person who is a benefit cheat living in a 2 bed housing association property. He works, but cash in hand for friends. He's also suplemented his income by renting out the second bedroom. All in all this has been going on for at least 16 years.
The benefit agency and housing office were notified of this some years ago. He wasn't living there at all at that time, one of his male friends were renting from him. Apparently someone from the council turned up and asking if he was this certain person, was told yes and that was that.
Obviously people who think they can get away with this behaviour starts pushing boundaries. It was my friend who told on him back then, she believes someone at the council made this known to him as she was accosted by him. It could be argued that he just suspected her, but she doesn't think that was the case because of something specific he said.
Anyhow, I've passed the info onto Jim Dowd, who wants me to give him my name before he considers doing something about it (words from his office).
His current girlfriend has been there about four years, yet the HA believes he is a single man. I won't be giving Dowd my details and I don't suppose the police want to waste resources tracing me, but I would like this person held to account.
I wonder why nobody thinks its odd, him signing on with his smart car parked up outside.
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I've updated this post to remove the make of car and to make a correction. This being that the reply came from Dowd's office, and not necessarily from him.
Benefit cheat
Benefit cheat
Last edited by wouldyou on 12 Oct 2011 13:08, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Benefit cheat
I very much agree that if people think they can get away with this behaviour, they will start pushing boundaries. However, if I was in your position, I'd be focusing on why the benefit agency wasn't doing anything. I don't suppose there is any government agency under more pressure to cut spending, and I'd be surprised if they weren't interested in this case, if genuine. I just googled 'benefit cheat hotline' and found of the National Benefit Fraud Hotline - so my advice is to raise the matter there.
I can well understand your reluctance not to give your name, but I can understand even more Jim Dowd's reluctance to get involved if you cannot give your name. I can think of a few better things our MPs could do with their time, but following up such anonymous allegations would not be one of them.
I can well understand your reluctance not to give your name, but I can understand even more Jim Dowd's reluctance to get involved if you cannot give your name. I can think of a few better things our MPs could do with their time, but following up such anonymous allegations would not be one of them.
Re: Benefit cheat
I have a feeling there is a technical issue about an MP acting in his official capacity of an MP on an anonymous complaint. I believe there is an MP convention to act only on behalf of their own constituents unless they have the permission of the MP of the other constituency. Its obvious why this may be good practice and I'm sure there are exceptions to cover issues of national interest.
But this is unlikely to be one of them. Hence his need to identify you as a constituent.
I also think the issue here is not so much one of the original alleged abuse but the apparent lack of vigorous investigation/action by the appropriate authorities. This is where Jim Dowd should be checking out. He can't go after every benefit cheat but he may be able to do something about those who should on our behalf. And he can't do that without chapter and verse on the original complaint.
So I think you have a difficult decision to make about your anonymity. I don't see the problem if it was me.
Stuart
But this is unlikely to be one of them. Hence his need to identify you as a constituent.
I also think the issue here is not so much one of the original alleged abuse but the apparent lack of vigorous investigation/action by the appropriate authorities. This is where Jim Dowd should be checking out. He can't go after every benefit cheat but he may be able to do something about those who should on our behalf. And he can't do that without chapter and verse on the original complaint.
So I think you have a difficult decision to make about your anonymity. I don't see the problem if it was me.
Stuart
Re: Benefit cheat
Hi wouldyou,
I rang about someone once on behalf of a friend.
It must have worked because the person suddenly had to get a job!
I must admit I would not give my name,and probably would get a friend or relative to ring, that way if you are asked if it was "YOU" you can honestly say no.
splitting hairs i know.
But have your facts all ready because they do ask you some questions like times-dates etc etc.
But go for it, we need more people to report suspects, save us a fortune in the long run.
I rang about someone once on behalf of a friend.
It must have worked because the person suddenly had to get a job!
I must admit I would not give my name,and probably would get a friend or relative to ring, that way if you are asked if it was "YOU" you can honestly say no.
splitting hairs i know.
But have your facts all ready because they do ask you some questions like times-dates etc etc.
But go for it, we need more people to report suspects, save us a fortune in the long run.
Re: Benefit cheat
as this person is commiting a crime, you can contact crimestoppers website, or ring on 0800 555 111
Re: Benefit cheat
Yes they are breaking the law of the land and as such should end up in prison. Good Luck.
Re: Benefit cheat
Thank you all for your comments and apologies if I do not pick up on all the points made.
Annie, I am the friend of the person who lives relatively close to this man. He can be quite a volatile character and is very cocky, the confidence obviously coming from the fact he has gotten away with it for so long. So although I would like for him to be caught out, I don't want any harm coming to my friend.
I thought going through Dowd was perhaps the safest route considering what happened last time, so I passed him the name and address together with other information about this persons activities. I thought, seeing as the government gives people the option to tell on neighbours/friends/family etc anonymously there would be no problem with this.
It is all very well to say Dowd doesn't want to put himself on the line, but how is asking the DWP to look at this mans entitlement again, putting himself out there? I also don't know why it matters if I am one of his constituents or not, when the man commiting the fraud is.
It does annoy me how issues which could be nipped in the bud are just left to fester. Then an increase in crime or perhaps a riot leaves people standing agape, saying there was no way anyone could foresee it. It is simple, bad/sad/troubled people get worse if not bought to book or given help.
Well I think I've done my bit and I've already loss sleep worrying about it (I guess I'm not so brave after all), so I'll leave it there, knowing someone in authority has been given the information and he must do with it what he will.
Annie, I am the friend of the person who lives relatively close to this man. He can be quite a volatile character and is very cocky, the confidence obviously coming from the fact he has gotten away with it for so long. So although I would like for him to be caught out, I don't want any harm coming to my friend.
I thought going through Dowd was perhaps the safest route considering what happened last time, so I passed him the name and address together with other information about this persons activities. I thought, seeing as the government gives people the option to tell on neighbours/friends/family etc anonymously there would be no problem with this.
It is all very well to say Dowd doesn't want to put himself on the line, but how is asking the DWP to look at this mans entitlement again, putting himself out there? I also don't know why it matters if I am one of his constituents or not, when the man commiting the fraud is.
It does annoy me how issues which could be nipped in the bud are just left to fester. Then an increase in crime or perhaps a riot leaves people standing agape, saying there was no way anyone could foresee it. It is simple, bad/sad/troubled people get worse if not bought to book or given help.
Well I think I've done my bit and I've already loss sleep worrying about it (I guess I'm not so brave after all), so I'll leave it there, knowing someone in authority has been given the information and he must do with it what he will.
Re: Benefit cheat
At least you have done something about it.
sleep easy
sleep easy
Re: Benefit cheat
I think it depends of the scale of cheating. Above a certain level, yes, but lots of ordinary people will have cheated a little, and all that's needed with them is just to stop them doing it again. Putting them in prison would be a massive waste of public, taxpayers' money.Eagle wrote:Yes they are breaking the law of the land and as such should end up in prison. Good Luck.
It's why I'd not bother with Crimestoppers. I assume this is basically a police operation, and stopping benefit cheating is unlikely be that high on their priorities. It will, however, be THE priority for the National Benefit Fraud helpline.
Re: Benefit cheat
Lax responses to benefit swindlers are part of the problem - and indicative of the liberal attitude - that has got us to where we are today. Rightly shopped IMO.
Re: Benefit cheat
16 years 
that has to be past the threshold for the police to take an intrest 
grrr bloody benefit scum lol
that has to be past the threshold for the police to take an intrest grrr bloody benefit scum lolRe: Benefit cheat
The police don't investigate and prosecute benefit offences.... it's all done by the DWP.
I also, for personal reasons, get deeply annoyed by anonymous complaints and/or people that report crimes but are then wholly unwilling to act as witnesses &c.
I also, for personal reasons, get deeply annoyed by anonymous complaints and/or people that report crimes but are then wholly unwilling to act as witnesses &c.
Re: Benefit cheat
Hmm. wouldyou: A lot of what you say seems to be hearsay. I'd be interested to learn how your friend knows what benefits the occupant is receiving unless working for the Benefits Agency - or is everyone's info up for grabs to all and sundry now? And, also, how your friend can know what terms are in his rental/tenancy agreement for temporary absence given it probably wouldn't be considered subletting and he'd still need to pay his rent.
What grounds have you reported the guy on, albeit anonymously, so far, and how much of that is fact that supports your thinking that he is a cheat given he seemingly hasn't been caught out for 16 years, so maybe he isn't?
However, even if you are absolutely sure that you know you've got your facts right and can prove them, your name will be on yet another database. Good ho (not).
I personally dislike the recent (last few years) advertising propaganda scare tactics like "we'll get you sooner or later" (which avoidance artists will ignore including white collar ones) and "secretly tell us" as although I was born after WWII it's impossible not to compare that with what happened in some countries then.
What grounds have you reported the guy on, albeit anonymously, so far, and how much of that is fact that supports your thinking that he is a cheat given he seemingly hasn't been caught out for 16 years, so maybe he isn't?
However, even if you are absolutely sure that you know you've got your facts right and can prove them, your name will be on yet another database. Good ho (not).
I personally dislike the recent (last few years) advertising propaganda scare tactics like "we'll get you sooner or later" (which avoidance artists will ignore including white collar ones) and "secretly tell us" as although I was born after WWII it's impossible not to compare that with what happened in some countries then.
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digime2007
- Posts: 258
- Joined: 10 Sep 2007 18:26
- Location: Sydenhham
Re: Benefit cheat
To be honest you may as well have put the details in a letter addressed to Father Christmas. As it stands nothing will happen and things, as you say, will be allowed to fest further.wouldyou wrote:Well I think I've done my bit and I've already loss sleep worrying about it (I guess I'm not so brave after all), so I'll leave it there, knowing someone in authority has been given the information and he must do with it what he will.
Forget anonymous tip-offs to MPs just contact the Benefit Hotline. It's their job to look into this kind of thing. You don't even have to give them your details.
You might want to make sure you are acting on more than just supposition though. It's pretty difficult (not to mention time consuming) to investigate someone without something specific to go on. The hotline online form should give you an idea of the type of information they’re after:
https://secure.dwp.gov.uk/benefitfraud/
Re: Benefit cheat
Mosy - I'm also a little bit suspicious of the OP, but benefit cheating is a serious matter, and ignoring it is what makes people like Voyageur blame liberal attitudes for getting us where we are today. So that's why I chose to respond to it as I did, and I'm pleased to see digime2007 agreeing with my advice in this possibly imaginary situation.
OTOH, I think you're over reacting to tip-offs being anonymous. Bensonby will know much more on the law here than me, but even if anonymous tip-offs can never be evidence in a court of law, or a decision to cut off benefits, they can surely be used legally to direct investigations to these ends - part of what I imagine 'intelligence led policing' means. Society has always had anonymous informants, and that fact that we have them now is not evidence of a slide towards what happened in some countries during WWII, in the same way that treating anonymous tip-offs with care is not just limp wristed liberalism. We have to get the balance right, and I'm prepared to accept that reluctance to tackle the question of whether benefit claimants are deserving would lead to abuse of the system - as Voyageur says, lax responses to benefits swindlers are part of the problem - but my emphasis. But we could easily lock far too many people up, at absurd expense, if we respond to benefit cheating inappropriately.
OTOH, I think you're over reacting to tip-offs being anonymous. Bensonby will know much more on the law here than me, but even if anonymous tip-offs can never be evidence in a court of law, or a decision to cut off benefits, they can surely be used legally to direct investigations to these ends - part of what I imagine 'intelligence led policing' means. Society has always had anonymous informants, and that fact that we have them now is not evidence of a slide towards what happened in some countries during WWII, in the same way that treating anonymous tip-offs with care is not just limp wristed liberalism. We have to get the balance right, and I'm prepared to accept that reluctance to tackle the question of whether benefit claimants are deserving would lead to abuse of the system - as Voyageur says, lax responses to benefits swindlers are part of the problem - but my emphasis. But we could easily lock far too many people up, at absurd expense, if we respond to benefit cheating inappropriately.
Re: Benefit cheat
No one likes a grass.
Re: Benefit cheat
no one likes a thief either
Re: Benefit cheat
Personally, I love grasses.simon wrote:No one likes a grass.
If they can do anything to stop people callously making themselves (comparatively) rich by fraudulently claiming benefits that are designed to help genuinely vulnerable people, then all the better. What people don't understand is that every pound stolen is a pound that can't go on other taxpayer-funded services - libraries and schools, or services for the elderly or disabled. Benefit cheats are stealing from all of us.
Re: Benefit cheat
Well said Juliet
These people are stealing from the rest of society.
These people are stealing from the rest of society.
Re: Benefit cheat
At school maybe !simon wrote:No one likes a grass.