My take on London's Riots

[CaptainCarCrash]

Is this the most radical story to emerge from the conference? then it just shows what a rabble they all are.

[Annie]

Yeah right Michael!

[Eagle]

Michael

Some immigration is a good thing. Skilled immigrants will probably be required for some time.

Whether you have a pussy or not if you commit a crime in UK you should be deported , whatever country they come from. They should have thought about that prior to their criminal activity.

How can you say all immigration is a good thing when you see all the young native unemployed .

[stuart]

... if you commit a crime in UK you should be deported

So if Nick Clegg's wife got caught speeding, her kids get pulled out of school and sent back too? Or Nick completely gives up on Dave and goes on benefit to look after them?

I don't think you have fully thought this one out Eagle.

Stuart

[michael]

not if you commit a crime in UK you should be deported , whatever country they come from. They should have thought about that prior to their criminal activity.

I believe it is a criminal offence to drive above 70mph on a motorway. If caught breaking the law in this way (as most people do) would you still advocate expelling the father of British children? How long should they be working in this country before you would remove the automatic deportation rule?

And shouldn't the same rule apply to British born criminal 'sponging parasitic low life un employable scum' (to borrow a phrase from another thread) Why do you want to keep them in the country?

We used to have a system of deporting children who stole bread, couldn't we introduce something similar today. Perhaps not to Australia (too good for them), but the Falkland Islands are proud to be British and owe us a favour. Surely they could take all the rioters and criminal Facebook posters who failed to incite riots?

How can you say all immigration is a good thing?

I don't. I say that overall the benefits (to the economy and society) outweigh the negatives.

[Lisa]

your both being silly stu and michael we all knw eagle is talking about immigrans. if they keep braking the law or if they are criminals they shoud be thrown out

[stuart]

Lisa - I was referring to an immigrant and being deadly serious. Are you saying that no matter how long they have lived here, how integrated into our community, how closely related to that community - we should summarily on criminal conviction expel them breaking up families, putting people on welfare and hence damaging our economy and future innocent lives?

Why?

Stuart

[Lisa]

no you werent you were making out like egle was talking about someone from britain by comparing them to mebmers of govement who ar british not immigants

immigrans who brake the law should cnsider the conseqwenses of there actions before they do a crime if that means being thrown out then so be it.there problem

[michael]

Stuart,
Funny how we both used roughly the same example

Lisa,
Wouldn't you be in favour of deporting British criminal-sponging-parasitic-low-life-unemployable-scum, even if they were not immigrants, surely those born in Britain, with all the benefits and morality entailed, should know better than 'Johnny Foreigner'?

[stuart]

Lisa - I was specifically talking about Nick Clegg's wife: Miriam González Durántez, a Spanish national and hence an immigrant.

I will ask the question again. Should we break up Nick's family if she is caught speeding? And what about the three young children? Pull them out of school or get Nick to give up his day job?

Stuart

[Lisa]

michael as much as i hate the british scum who spong off everyone else they ar british and cant be deportd.

stu speeding shoulnt automatcly mean being deported but if cleggs wife was caught burgling or drug dealing then i would support her beeing kickdout and her family being broke up. it would be her choise to go dwn that path afterall. but spain is a farely stable place so if that happened the family could reunite and live in spain thus deal with the conseqwenses of there actions

[stuart]

That's the point though Lisa. A blanket deport on conviction is not what either of us wants.

Personally I would deport Miriam if she were a Spanish lorry driver speeding up the M20 from Dover. Probably a very appropriate punishment and a real disincentive for other foreign lorry drivers to endanger us on our own roads. But to someone integrated into a British family, No.

My best friend's wife is a New Zealander. They have been married for nearly 40 years and have children and grandchildren here. Deporting her would effectively deprive everybody of any intimate contact for life. However, if she was a serial killer than that may be a good thing.

So all I'm suggesting is there is a sliding scale in the gravity of offence, danger to us and their ties to this country in deciding whether to deport. We can argue where that line is to be drawn. Its a very, very difficult thing. But I think Eagle's absolutist position is untenable as he might agree on reflection.

Stuart

[Eagle]

OK I agree sone minor crimes could be excempt.
But surely any crime involving violence , there should be no question that non Britons should be returned. I do not care what relationship with people or pussies they are in.

[stuart]

I do not care what relationship with people or pussies they are in.

If they live alone then you are punishing the miscreant. Fine.

If they are in a family then you are punishing everybody in that relationship - so it may be the innocent Brits and taxpayers who suffer most. I would have thought you would be rooting for them Eagle? Surely we should keep some sort of proportionality?

And another thought. My wife is Welsh. If they (and the Scots) get independence can we deport them?

Hang on - I'm starting to get your point

Stuart

[Annie]

Yeah right Michael!

no you werent you were making out like egle was talking about someone from britain by comparing them to mebmers of govement who ar british not immigants

immigrans who brake the law should cnsider the conseqwenses of there actions before they do a crime if that means being thrown out then so be it.there problem

Exactly Lisa.

[michael]

michael as much as i hate the british scum who spong off everyone else they ar british and cant be deportd.

Why not? If the court say they should go to prison, they go to prison. If the court say they go to the Falkland Island, they go to the Falklands. If its good enough for the speedy lorry driving senorita Clegg then it should be the same punishment for the ex Mrs Huhne.

[Annie]

""Why not? If the court say they should go to prison, they go to prison. If the court say they go to the Falkland Island, they go to the Falklands. If its good enough for the speedy lorry driving senorita Clegg then it should be the same punishment for the ex Mrs Huhne.""


I'm sure you understand where Lisa is coming from,
just as well as I do,

basically she knows we have enough of our own home grown criminals/antisocial idiots without importing more.

[Eagle]

There does seem a big gulf between both sides on this discussion which I do not think perhaps will be changed , unless of course of the the liberals gets mugged or one of these families move in next door.
I have experienced bad neighbours , relying totally on benefit , disturbing all the neighbours. I cannot thankfully say I have experienced living on one of the estates like some of the other posters. I would imagine most of the liberals who are making a joke of others concerns have not experiened first hand these matters.

[michael]

OK I agree sone minor crimes could be excempt.

The gulf is caused by your knee-jerk reaction to everything foreign, sweeping generalisation, and lack of humanity. Eventually, when things are carefully explained to you, you get the point and the gulf narrows.

But you still seem to think it is the 'liberals' who must be in the wrong, despite already accepting that your initial statement was wrong. As a last resort you hope that by having violence inflicted on liberals that this will somehow change their views.

[digime2007]

There does seem a big gulf between both sides on this discussion which I do not think perhaps will be changed , unless of course of the the liberals gets mugged or one of these families move in next door.
I have experienced bad neighbours , relying totally on benefit , disturbing all the neighbours. I cannot thankfully say I have experienced living on one of the estates like some of the other posters. I would imagine most of the liberals who are making a joke of others concerns have not experiened first hand these matters.

You would be wrong. I have been mugged. I have lived in bedsits occupied almost exclusively by people on benefit who were some of the best neighbours I've ever had. My wife lived in social housing for a period of time and also had no problems with neighbours.

I have experienced problem neighbours but they were not on benefits.

This is where your simplistic argument falls down and your stigmatisation of the "benefit classes" becomes really unhelpful.

Yes, there are issues but demonising whole sections of society won't help you understand the issues or come up with solutions that will work.