New convenience store near Syd Station

[mosy]

Has anyone noticed or popped in yet, Ginesh I think it's called? It's the erstwhile mobile phone shop next to Palace Wines and has been refurbished inside to suit a food store. I've been in a couple of times since they opened this weekend and bought convenience items, being shelf items like bread or tinned somethings, plus having a look to see what they sell. The man on one occasion and the lady on another who served me (I guess the proprietors) are full of smiles and I wish them well.

[scarpetta]

Another convenience store! Yes, I've seen it. I have not been inside but got slightly annoyed to see that another shop pops up on the high street with a ghastly plastic sign - this really shouldn't be allowed. The sign doesn't even cover the old sign and makes Sydenham Road look even more shabby! Really sad to see that the improvement of the high street which a lot of us are crying out for doesn't seem to materialise. A shop has also popped up near Rafa named 'Food and wine'. Btw, I have never seen it open.. and gazing through the window it certainly doesn't seem to be selling any wines but lolly pops and sodas.

Would be great to see a regeneration of the high street.......!
At least the greyhound project looks to be making progress.

[mosy]

The interior of the shop has had considerable refurbishment investment in my opinion. A convenience store isn't meant to be gentrification, rather being for foot shoppers or train-passenger footfall.

That the current external sign doesn't stretch right across the fascia board is puzzling though I guess there will be reasons for that. I don't know how long it takes/costs to get signs made or how long a shop wants to trade to see if it gets sufficient custom to warrant the cost (or if they'll have to close down if in doubt), so someone more knowledgeable than I would have to comment on the implications of making "posh" signs compulsory, although I'd assume that even if they were, there would be a grace period as the priority for a new shop is surely to get up and running soonest given rent & rates.

This shop has only just opened - perhaps people should try it, as I'm sure you will, scarpetta, now you've spotted it <thumbup>

[mosy]

PS The Greyhound redevelopment might look good once finished, but the tall flats won't half block out a lot of sunlight to properties behind it, and lower than, as the sun moves round. Still, it'll probably look good from the Hight Street... (Sorry, bit of a growl there.)

[Chris Best]

I have been to see the new owners and hope that they will be able to come along to the Sydenham Assembly tomorrow evening - maybe we can have a discussion about the importance of the signage.

[leenewham]

I don't know how long it takes/costs to get signs made or how long a shop wants to trade to see if it gets sufficient custom to warrant the cost (or if they'll have to close down if in doubt), so someone more knowledgeable than I would have to comment on the implications of making "posh" signs compulsory, although I'd assume that even if they were, there would be a grace period as the priority for a new shop is surely to get up and running soonest given rent & rates.

I can answer these questions Mosy (as I am sure you were anticipating!).

1. Making your shop attractive helps get people through the door. If you don't get people though the door you don't sell anything. Look at Billings. Probably one of the most talked about shop in the high street on these forums. Compare it to the other butchers in the road or the one that closed down near to me which had a good name but looked like a breeding ground for Salmonella.

2. Signage isn't expensive. The Billings sign I designed cost £450 and will last forever. It took 3 weeks from sending the artwork to them to delivery but it differs from signage company to signage company. Plastic illuminated light boxes are 4 times that. Candies banner was probably about £70-100 (they didn't last long did they?). The window graphics in Billings wer about £280. The awning was about £1400ish.

3. I don't understand your posh signs comment. Good signage is relevant to the business, enhances the street and should be made of the appropriate materials. There is no reason a greasy spoon, Launderette, a barbers, nail bar or convenience store shouldn't look attractive and enhance the street. I've been talking to a few signage companies, small family firms from around South East London. Good signage is not expensive and some of it is incredibly beautiful and skillfully made. Unfortunately these skills, especially signwriting, aren't as common as people who make plastic signs just as joinery companies aren't as common as people who make PVC windows.

4. The high street is in a conservation area. This signage dones not to my mind conform to planning, although I have a problem with that as it's not properly enforced and Council Guidelines are not inspiring or particularly relevant to Sydenham. We were asked to be involved in Sydenham Guidelines many many months ago but have yet to see anything come to light (despite the fact that they were apparently 'urgent!').

5. Why shouldn't any business invest in making the shop look as good as possible when they first open? That's when they will be noticed and when it is most important. Why wait for them to change poor signage they have installed at their expense?

Why not be involved with them BEFORE they have wasted their money so they can maximise their business potential and make the high street a more inviting place?

The council can help. They should produce local guidelines or at least publicize the fact that they have them (which they don't and haven't).

We could have had funding for shop improvements in Sydenham though the Outer London Fund but we have missed out with Catford getting the money instead. Forest Hill Councillors were trying to get funding and put in a bid. Unfortunately this didn't happen here.

[Dorian]

I feel a bit sorry for them when Tesco/Sainos open at the unit on The Greyhound site.

[leenewham]

It's a shame they didn't do any research. If so they would have known that Tesco are thinking of opening across the road from them, as are Sainsbury's in the Greyhound site.

Not to mention:

The Co-operative
Tesco Kirkdale
Costcutter (x2)
Kirkdale convenience store
Costcutter 24/7 (on Basra Row)
Istanbul (x2)
The one next to Trattoria (whatever it's called)
The hairdressers selling fruit and veg

I'm sure there are others I've missed.

They would also notice that many of these shops are very quiet. They may have noticed that a few of these have also shut in recent years like East to West.

If we really want a diverse high street we need to attract diverse businesses, not clones of exactly the same thing again and again and again. Business needs to win custom, not hope that others custom will rub off on them by copying what they do.

[Chris Best]

I couldn't agree with you more Lee about the research - we need far more diversification in the high street but we also need more residents to shop local.

In terms of the shop front guidelines there are on the Lewisham's web site - http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/p ... ideSPD.pdf - under Planning policy as well as info on Conservation Areas. Yes we can improve our leaflets but the basic guidance is available.

There is also a section on Business with links for business advice, commercial property, business rates, licences etc.

As for the Outer London Fund we were successful in our bid for Catford and received £125k. Officers are now getting feedback to inform the bids for Round 2 this month. Any money from the second round is for a spend from April onwards and we are currently thinking about the Olympic Festival and dressing our high streets. We do have £50k from the "look and feel" fund but there is a lot of the borough to cover with bunting next year.

I am sorry you can't join us tonight Lee but I am sure we can catch up on views after this evening.

[dickp]

Ooh, where are tescos thinking of opening?

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[Eagle]

The problem of conveniance stores is that most apply for and get authority to sell cheap alcohol. That is not good news.

[sydenhamboy]

I have been to see the new owners and hope that they will be able to come along to the Sydenham Assembly tomorrow evening - maybe we can have a discussion about the importance of the signage.

well done that man. They need to recognise that people want a 'nicer' high street. It's a vicious circle because if the street looks shabby then shops will assume the locals don't care. Sydenham is weird that way because it's never going to be a Lordship Lane - but we know we're a step up from Catford. We need to look like we're trying at least. Was in Peckham Rye the other day ... we should be like that.

[simon]

The one next to Trattoria (whatever it's called)
.

Thats Gabisco Food and Wine, although they don't have a license to sell alcohol so cant sell wine.
They didn't appear to have much in the way of food either, when I looked in.
Have only seen one customer in there since it opened; they were no doubt enticed by the offer of two cans of coke for £1.20 as displayed in the window.
I see a stall has appeared a couple of doors down, outside the hairdressers, selling bowls of fruit for a pound. Seems to do a brisk trade.

[JulietP]

Why can't someone open a decent fish & chips place instead of yet another convenience store? Not impressed with the one opposite Forest Hill station.

[JoeP]

What I find incredible is that I have been living here for over 10 years and have been reading the forum for almost as long and am simply astonished at the fact that the debate is so depressingly unchanging. The high street is grotty. I'm over that so tend to go elsewhere. What gets me is that the council are so incompetent in attracting and retaining new and lasting businesses. It's also in their power to force businesses to improve their shop fronts and I'm genuinely amazed thanks to the Billings shop front designer (great job btw) how cheap it is to get a great looking shop front. Come on council leaders!! It's in your hands. Don't let another 10 years pass and still have the same tired ugly high street.

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[Chris Best]

Please see my comments on the Sydenham Assembly thread - you can make a difference by shoppping locally!

[JoeP]

Chris, the problem is much bigger than that. Unmuzzled dangerous dogs off leads, drinking, anti social behaviour. It's not somewhere I'm happy to go shopping with my kids. Until those kinds of issues are addressed the problems with the high street will continue. I stick with the view that it's largely down to bad management on the side of the council.

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[Tim Lund]

JoeP

It's a complex subject, but fundamentally, I think I agree with you. If you go along to enough meetings, you'll hear the reasons why, even though the Council obviously would like a smarter looking High Street, it's not so easy to sort out these problems. The main role of the Council is to co-ordinate actions from numerous other groups, but it can't tell some key groups what to do. For example, the Council has little power over the 'statutory authorities' such as Thames Water when it comes to digging up Sydenham Road, and nor does it have much power over commercial landlords, even though, via the higher rents they will be able charge, they will be the biggest direct gainers from Sydenham Road improvements. The presence at the recent Assembly of the agent for the two commercial units at the Greyhound was more of clue to how Sydenham Road will be improved than pious exhortations to shop locally.

Where the Council should have actual powers, via enforcement, these have been allowed to wither thanks to staff cuts in parts of the Council which actually matter, and where such powers have been invoked, they sometimes seem capricious - e.g. this thread, Back off Kenté.