My take on London's Riots

[sfhyouthforum]

Dear Eagle,

I don't scare easily but living in a city with people on even less than they have already scares the craaahp out of me. And it certainly won't stop the theives theiving.

Just wondering, what's your take on chopping off hands for stealing bread?

Make a difference. http://sfhyouthforum.org.uk/donate/

[leaf]

Eagle you are assuming that the parents of all of those young people 'let off' are on benefits and live in social housing!

[Eagle]

If they are not on benefits or social housing the heavily fine them.

I am sorry but as Eric Pickles says we need to stop pussy footing about.

These people will be a burden on this country for their whole life.

What a cannot abide is their lack of gratitude for, what other members of society have given them .

Whilst applauding the Police they are fighting this with kid gloves. I applaud some of out ethnic groups who have showed courage in standing up to this scum.

[mosy]

(clip)...What a cannot abide is their lack of gratitude for, what other members of society have given them ...(clip)

So those without should be humble and doff their cap whilst proffering their begging bowl? A return to 10th Century (?) feudal Britain? There but for the grace of God go I methinks. Sitting pretty is one thing, no chance of sitting pretty is another.

[Eagle]

I think gratitude should always be given if you are given something for nothing.

Were you not taught this as a child

[mosy]

Yes, and as an adult I wanted to earn money for myself and was able to - then. Parents provide for their children, wherever that money arrives from and it is probably taken as read or for granted in whatever walk of life by said children so gratitude in terms of minors could reasonably be read as expectation (I don't mean provision of latest designer trainers). Well, at least until the time comes when they are of working age.

Teenagers or youngsters who get roped into gangs, sometimes with little choice, is a different matter and I'm not sure that gratitude plays a part in the group/herd mentality/instinct then.

[summerbreeze]

I read the OP comments with interest.

Before I make my comments I would like to say I don’t condone what has happened, it does however sadden me that this has happened in England and more so when my 14 year old daughter texted me on Monday when she was out saying “Mummy I am scared”.

I have always been fascinated by youth and how they see themselves and the world around them. I have no formal training in this department but something I ventured into some 35 years ago aged 12 after being beaten up at school by around 30 girls the reason being as I stood up against peer pressure a non conformist, which had an impact upon my life and I failed in formal education. I needed at that point to start to understand youth as to not fear humans.

One of the questions over the years I have asked many children around the age of 13 is do you like yourself?
Children have been baffled by this question some I have asked have said yes but most I have asked have said no which has always saddened me. I have then pointed out the bits about them that I like.
I think society seems to forget that 13 year olds are children that are still learning about themselves and the world around them, we need to ask ourselves as a society why so many children at 13 have a sense of self worthlessness. As adults we have to take some responsibility, as we have stood by and let that happen.

Another question I have asked hoody wearing youths is, why do you want to hide yourself?
Many have responded that they fear being recognised, not by people or the police but other youths.

I have delved deeper into this with my own family I have three teenagers one of which fears the streets but I don’t let him wear hoodies as I think it makes you a target.
I asked him why he fears the streets, I asked if he had ever been threatened on the streets, he said no but has been asked across the street by youths what he is doing in the area they never bothered him apart from that. So I asked why does he fear then, he said at school everyone is in gangs and they talk about it all the time, which lead me to belief that it is an irrational fear without having any self experience to back up the fear. I have then taken my findings further and asked other youths most of which have backed up my findings.

When Children fear other children and adults fear children what is happening?
Children are not born without a feeling of self worth or born with fear, anger or violent thugs as they are now labelled.

I would personally like to scrap formal education for children aged from 4 – 6 year olds and introduce teaching of self worth, the environment and community around them and make them feel part of something bigger the world in which they live in. As once they see themselves as a valued member of society I believe they would want to contribute to society in a more positive way. Then you can teach them the tools they need to survive.

Words of a song that inspires me is George Bensons “the greatest love of all”
I believe that children are our future
Teach them well and let them
Lead the way
show them all the beauty they possess inside
Give them a sense
Of pride
To make it easier
Let the children’s laughter
Remind us how we used

[sfhyouthforum]

Mosy - one of many jobs I am trying to do is create a good-working website that hosts many free opportunities to young people.

http://beta.sfhyouthforum.org.uk/

All the youth programmes I run are free at point of entry. The other thing I must stress is that everyone working regularly with youths must have a criminal records check, (and those one-off sessions must be accompanied by at least one adult who has one) which some people (like Tim Lund) have no problem with. Though others find this offensive, instrusive and it takes time to be processed, time that can see an adult volunteer lose patience. If you're a volunteer it is free, otherwise I had to pay for mine myself.

So if you are thinking of helping out, start by getting a CRB http://www.volunteercentrelewisham.org. ... bodies.php

And if you already do stuff with yp or your son and daughter attends something like Karate - get the tutors to add their details to our site.
http://beta.sfhyouthforum.org.uk/

[sfhyouthforum]

Summerbreeze - well said. The ones who didn't loot had self worth or someone who valued them and their safety, knew where they were, and hopefullly that place was sitting around the dinner table talking like you do with your children and cuddling together on the sofa.

[CaptainCarCrash]

There are some positives that will come out of this for sure and it's easy to knee jerk but I am serious when I said I want to get out of where I'm living in London, these demons terrorise a lot of the decent children by robbing them of their bikes in the park and chasing and stabing others.

Urban decay is here to stay and it will only get worse in London, a lot of it is down to the way councils operate in regards to the way in which they are creating a two tier community that breeds resentment, hatred and fear.

Groups of teenage thugs have been left to develop in to what we are seeing now. Some of the scum that are wandering around my local area at night mugging people left right and center need battering IMO.

There are too many liberal mamby pamby dogooders, I know that some of these kids aren't really that bad but the ones I see that look like they'd stab you for a quid and like to intimidate the public need to be taken of our streets. I know you can't lock every one up but look at Mark Duggan as an example. He is from a family of violently dangerous mobsters, there are too many kids involved with drugs and there are too many kids having kids and there are too many disfunctional families.

They need to get really tough with persistent offenders and introduce something akin to the three strike rule that is in place in America.

[Eagle]

Well said Mike.

Scrap the human rights acts and other acts which restrict adults and the Police from imposing law and order without the threat of being sued.

[Rick Channing]

In my opinion, the misogynistic rap/hip hop culture seems to have legitimised passive hostility. In that a noticable percentage of young (mostly black) men seem eager to impress upon strangers they pass in the street (be it via clothing, jewellery or anything else both parties will associate with gang culture) a potentially hostile and unpredictable attitude. It stinks and should ideally be discouraged, but the black and ethnic communities rarely or never act on the obvious because they know that encouraging racial indignation, however passively, gives them leverage. They know that no-one wants to be vilified in the indifferent press, because they know full well the burden that will have to be carried by who's portrayed as a racist by media outlets beyond their control to effectively counter. Their life will become a lot more dificult as a result of it.

And why all the indignation at police officers stopping and searching citizens that are exhibiting all the hallmarks of the suspects the police have been trained to catch?

The visible majority of violent crime at street level in the UK is perpetrated by young black men who know full well that the organisation(s) tasked to enforce the law is so stigmatised by racism (justifiably so, in some cases). This stigma is compounded by the fact that police forces across the UK are staffed predominately by whites (though the UK is, demographically/ethnically speaking, a predominantly caucasian country) who can easily be tarnished as racists by those acting on behalf of the accused. The very utterance of the word 'racist', or the slightest suggestion of 'racism' is so tipped in the favour of minorities that it frequently obstructs common sense - in this case the informal questioning and legally permissable search of a young black man on the street who is (consiously or not) exhibitting suspicious behaviour, thus warranting their temporary, ad hoc detention by police officers patrolling the area.

In short, it's otherwise entirely natural for a police officer to stop and question anyone that fits the profile (regardless of race) of the criminals they're tasked with monitoring, arresting and bringing to justice. But since the concept of racism has been blown out of all proportion, the ordinary police officer is justifiably reluctant to be vilified in the press as a racist, which will often precede the loss of their job or suspension from duty, if they're lucky. This atmosphere is what's hindering the police in putting a stop to the riots and looting that's happening all over the UK. All parties involved know that the majority of the perpetrators from an ethnic minority, and don't don't want to be photographed executing tough measures for the fear of being on the front pages of the tabloid and left-wing press under the headline: 'Racist police target black man'. Until such a time has passed that the accusation of racism can be refuted before a board, committee or whatever, who won't in turn be vilified as a result of a not guilty verdict, the accusation of racism will remain an understandable fear, and hinder the those tasked with making or executing unenviable decisions.

[Eagle]

I agree the Police should be able to stop anybody and asked if they would mind being searched. I would never object to this.

The government should put in the dustbin most of the liberal laws both parties have brought in since the 60's.

I regret this will not happen as the liberal elite in this country are more concerned about upseting the feelings of criminals than punishing them.

I expect the Liberal Party are really regreting their insistence we should recuce CCTV coverage. I do not care how many times I am on film and nor should any other citizen.

[DanDan]

I suppose most of you were in agreement with David Starkey on newsnight last night. As it goes I'm a massive hip hop fan and i was out rioting and looting as that's what the music does.

[Maria]

No, DanDan, I promise you that "most of us" are not in agreement with what D Starkey said.

There are so very many writing on this page who assure you this is indeed the case, and then there are 100s who read with horror what some of our own neighbours are saying but don't reply because, basically.... we are not going to change their minds and we are not interested in maintaining a discussion at this level.

I worked with young people all my life; many wore hoodies; many had troubed lives; far, far too many felt they had no hope, no future, no one who cared. They were fantastic people - I keep telling my own how lucky they are and how respectul they must absolutely be towards those literally so weighed down by disadvantage and deprivation that they no longer care. As my own father, a barrister, used to tell us when young...

[Eagle]

I also do not agree with the good Dr.


However cannot Crap music or hip hop as you call it.

[DanDan]

Just so you know 'Rapping' is just one of the elements that makes up Hip Hop culture, the others being, breakdancing, djing, graffiti and knowledge. Before denouncing an entire culture I think you should do some research. Good evening.

[leaf]

Eagle

Rick Channing

Gonna call you on this one...You are both disgustingly, ignorantly, stupidly Racist.

Im sure you are quite probably proud of that anyway.

Just saying.

[Rick Channing]

It's a shame that you had to resort to name-calling, leaf, but I'm no racist. I'm just a realist, though I can't speak for Eagle.

[leaf]

Its a shame that you had to resort to spouting sh1t Rick but there you go.....