My take on London's Riots

[JulietP]

Really insightful post by Melissa (the inaccuracies about the Duggan shooting notwithstanding).

I would add one additional thing to the list of things that people should teach the young people with whom they have contact. And that is that having a flashy car and a big house are simply not healthy life aspirations. Look at Wayne Rooney and Ashley Cole, for example -for all their wealth and possessions, do they seem happy and fulfilled?

Study after study has proven that money and possessions do not equal happiness. Beyond a certain "comfort" level - being able to buy essentials such as food and clothes - what makes people happy is doing a job that they enjoy and where they feel appreciated and fulfilled, and having people around them who they love - friends, family and community.

Yes, it's important to provide opportunities for the genuinely bright, ambitious and hard-working to get an education and get ahead in life. But we need to avoid simply pandering to the 21st century view that stuff is good, and the more expensive the stuff, the better. We need to change the materialistic mindset rather than pandering to it.

PS. Mosy, my brother managed to get over the experience hurdle by volunteering at an old people's home for several months while continuing to look for jobs. Eventually he was hired on a temporary contract for something else, which after a couple of years turned into a permanent job. It is possible - but it's hard work.

[sfhyouthforum]

Regarding the shooting incident. Julius, you're now the third person to point this out. I got an email yesterday from a friend about the shooting in the face actually being the chest. I read that it was the face in the Sun Newspaper on Monday whilst picking it up on the Overground before the major riots kicked off, including the looting of New Cross Currys. Now I read the shot was is the chest. The face shooting must have been a rumour, and one what sparked such anger up in Tottenham. Much hearsay spreads in these situations before the papers and police can uncover truth so I’ll hope you will forgive me. Though I am not too pleased about how you went about telling me:

Surely someone of your education (BSc BA Hons) would do well to make sure you have the facts before posting incorrect information. As a youth worker, you should deal only with truths and not speculation as that really helps no-one.

The officer then returned fire with a Heckler & Koch MP5 submachine gun, hitting Duggan twice in the face. The Sun, Monday 8th August p.5

To the 'gas ‘em up, get the army in' lot: If this is all you got from my post, then that saddens me greatly. You miss the point entirely and may as well be looting the shops yourself, only your looting is ideological, your thoughts and feelings on the matter just as damaging as broken businesses. These are not people with any stake in society and half the battle is getting people like you to open your door, love thy neighbour, employ them: Get stuck in.

But no, instead of volunteering or mentoring - something ALL MY POSTS have offered - you want to sit behind your computer screens and be 'forum members'. You want to rant anger, instead your anger is via a keyboard and not a brick. You and them are one and the same.
You want to pick at the places in my post where the facts don't fit. Well here is a fact for you: Punitive Punishment Doesn't Work. You breed more anger and more contention. I'm never going to condone the acts. Never. And I never want to see them happen again. But a twelve-month sentence isn't going to stop its repetition. Having a connection with someone they look up to who says 'NO. Be someone else.' actually does.
So I ask with care, that you get stuck in. I see from our posts, we are literate. Even a couple of hours after school teaching reading or writing will help. All it takes is to pick up the phone and ask to volunteer. To view ourselves as blameless is a fallacy.

[sfhyouthforum]

Exactly Juliet. And the way you learn these things is by earning £5 an hour doing proper jobs. I did a paper round, then babysat, cut grass, and then had a Saturday job working for a lady who was tough but caring. She'd shout at you for standing still. She taught me what hard work is about.

At 16 I went to do some project work in Ghana, where I met people my age and up to 25 who all they dreamed of was to be in school and learn. Exchange programme. Put some of these youths into real poverty and they will soon realise how insignificant the clothes they stole are inside a village where there isn't even a television. Learning life lessons from within. Putting a broken glass inside a prison cell, will never mend the broken glass.

[CaptainCarCrash]

Not all of the idiot moron looters are from broken homes.


Some of these kids have never been punished by their parents.

When I was a lad and was really bad i'd get the belt and if I was really bad at school I got the cane.

Looking back I desearved it but nowadays these ferel bastard out of control brats have never been taught right from wrong.

May be if a little pain were administered they'd sort them selves out a little bit.

I'm not saying beat them to death but....

A lot of them just wanna smoke weed and play the hardman and wallo in a world of bullshit that isn't worth a rub.

Stooges get mugged all day long where I live, you know the type, weedy little non descript yuppies on iphones. Lucky for me I'm 6. 2 and weigh 19 stone so they don't really look at me but I am pretty weary of the little unemployable sh!ts.

It isn't necessarily about have and have not it's about social decline and the fact that far too many kids are having kids and have no idea how to behave and work for a better life like most if not every one here has.

They all think the world owes them something, but it doesn't. Get off your lazy good for nothing arses and at least learn a skill, make yourself employable, at least try something instead of sitting about with an attitude problem and stop the take take take, because really its time to give something back.

[CaptainCarCrash]

Ping em up with rubber bullets and tear gas the little shits.

There's too much cotton wool bullshit now in this country.

[JulietP]

"For if you suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this, but that you first make thieves and then punish them. "
— Thomas More

[sfhyouthforum]

Mike -people like you, big strong men need to be mentors who'll set them on a different road. It's no good ranting to us delicate forum members. You need to shout this in their faces and see how they develop via your wisdom. So off you go then. Now. xx

[sfhyouthforum]

http://www.wesaywepay.com/project/nothi ... eople-in-s

If anyone would like help out, please to donate to this. The SFH youth forum wants to conduct a massive study on how and where young people spend their free time.

[CaptainCarCrash]

Touch a nerve with the truth did I?

I don't want to go near any of them because one minute I'll be mentoring them the next they'll be robbing from me or burning my house down.

I do not want them in my life, they can do one and rott, the majority of them are no hope scum.

[sfhyouthforum]

My nerves are fine. I was being cheeky! But also truthful. I really think it takes men who they can look up to (and fear a bit) to tell them to sort it out.

Also, in my eight years as a youth worker, I've never been robbed, or had my house burnt down. Take it from me, the more we get involved the less crime. Simples.

Have you ever thought about how hard it is for me to be able to change your views? I know my post won't miraculously change your stubborn take on it. So I suggest you apply the same mindset to these yobs. There's no amount of beating, hatred, violence that will enable them to wake up the next day and train to be an employee. Or I could be wrong. You tell me. If I come over and whack you with the naughty stick will you promise to be a mentor? (again cheeky).

[CaptainCarCrash]

I'm not saying to beat them is a magic wand and would be a bit after the hose has bolted but kids need checking from the start of their lives and need to be taught right from wrong and have family values insteeled into them. It is a shame and a sorry state of affairs.

I understand that poverty has a role to play, I've made a lot of noise about inequality but there is no simple answer this is incredibly complicated.

I was being a little pedantic but I think that there is too much pandering to some of these kids and maybe some sort of strict boot camp should be used instead of taking them to a youth centre and sticking an xbox controller in their hands.

[sfhyouthforum]

We are talking the same language. You don't have to mentor the older ones, but perhaps get into the primary schools when their 4, 5 or 6 years old and can be taught these values. Reading, writing, piano lessons, sports...they'll all grow up one day.

It doesn't have to be too onerous, but will make a huge difference. Like a relative does when they meet up to go to the park or seaside once a month. Then when these things take place, you call and say 'promise me you won't be part of it?' or 'this will end our friendship', they will listen. The bond and trust will mean more to them than the PS3. This is the stuff I am on about.

[Rick Channing]

Sorry, but I'm with Mikecg on this one. This country's been pumping billions into dealing with 'disadvantaged youth' (who, incidentally, seem to be the ones disadvantaging themselves). It's time they faced the consequences of their idle sense of entitlement that the Labour government seemed so eager to stunt their progress with.

Take this picture of members of the Sydenham Youth Forum, for example (note Cllr Chris Best: back row, fifth from the left).


Perhaps if they made themselves look a little bit more employable i.e - ditching the garish wardrobe and nonchalant, bolshy attitude that urban 'youths' are so notorious for. Thus taking more responsibility for their destiny and relieving the disproportionate burden placed on society's shoulders for ensuring their wellbeing.

[RedRevolver]

Perhaps if they made themselves look a little bit more employable i.e - ditching the garish wardrobe and nonchalant, bolshy attitude that urban 'youths' are so notorious for. Thus taking more responsibility for their destiny and relieving the disproportionate burden placed on society's shoulders for ensuring their wellbeing.

Uh, all I can say is look up the Sophie Lancaster foundation. A girl abused and who lost her life for the way she dressed. Basing criminality, or vulgarisms, on the way one dresses isn't fair. People shouldn't be forced to look a certain way - indeed, if you dared try to make me dress like a middle manager in order to gain employment, I'd tell you to, uh, 'jog on'.

I know quite a few people who dress like hoodies, who personally fill no capacity as a criminal or otherwise unsavoury person. Maybe we should encourage employers to grow a back bone, and listen to what people say and think rather than dismissing them purely on the way they dressed.

[leenewham]

Rick, the line-up wasn't a job interview!

If any of the people in the picture came to me for an interview and demonstrated enthusiasm, insight, will, talent, good thinking and visual style I'd employ them if I had a position available (I run a design company).

What they wear in their spare time doesn't bother me. I'd expect them to dress appropriately for an interview but that doesn't mean they have to wear a suit. If the interview wasn't going well I'd tell them where they are going wrong. I get a lot of emails from all over the world by young people asking for internships, interviews or advice due to our work posted on various websites (we try to reply to them all). Hardly any of the people contacting us are from the UK. Perhaps this is telling.

I agree that lots of people (of all ages) look scruffy these days, but compared to many, the people in the photo look almost smart! Lets not demonize our youth, while some were involved in the riots, the majority weren't and they are the future doctors, singers, firemen, bankers, politicians, Councillors, shopkeepers, policemen etc.

[Tim Lund]

Well here is a fact for you: Punitive Punishment Doesn't Work.

Another boring obseration economists tend to make is that the costs of locking people are incredibly high - we'll bankrupt ourselves if we don't find better ways. The state of California is the classic case - it once had a public education system that was the envy of the world - now it is a pathetic relic, squeezed out by spending on a gulag of prisons.

[Rachael]

Rick - thanks for taking the time to find that picture and post it here. Likewise, your first post on the other riots thread had a handy photo to illustrate your point. If I could work out how to include image in my reply (which to my shame I can't, despite being quite good at this sort of thing), I would have made this image my reply to you:

http://troll.me?p=2802

[sfhyouthforum]

How dare you put this photo up to demonise the young people! This is abuse and I certainly hope Admin remove it. These are the reasons why people are not happy to sign parent consent forms for photos! Use your time more wisely, and read my actual words. You, yes, you get stuck in. Not government money, but your free time to meet, greet, and teach your values. Instead of searching for ways to bring down the sweethearts who are getting involved. This picture shows a very mixed group of young people engaging and talking to local councillors, sharing their ideas and taking part in local democratic processes, what is wrong with that?

Forum members! Please rebuke such behaviour? These young people are not to be exploited. They're not the ones looting so please do not post photos of them judging them. There are lines and you just crossed one.

[DanDan]

Young people need guidance and help and I want to offer my services, Melissa how can I do this?

[sfhyouthforum]

Plus this was on a Saturday. Weekend attire.