Kirkdale Village – Street Beautification Project

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bigbadwolf
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Joined: 7 Jan 2008 21:21
Location: Forest Hill and Sydenham

Re: Kirkdale Village – Street Beautification Project

Post by bigbadwolf »

rshdunlop wrote:Volunteers do get something out of it - the satisfaction from having volunteered. There is no such thing as true altruism.
I don't doubt for one second that volunteers take enormous personal satisfaction from sacrificing their free time to help towards a cause they feel justifies the volunteer help it requests. I just think, in this instance, that there's more deserving recipients of volunteer work than a commercial enterprise. Not to mention one that includes (by location, if not association) a multi-billion pound conglomorate that will stand to financially gain from this volunteer work.

Honestly, as much as it may seem otherwise, I'm not trying to be intentionally objectional. I just think that this Kirkdale Village outfit should have digged into their own pockets before launching an appeal for unpaid labour to further commercial gain.
ALIB
Posts: 1553
Joined: 12 Oct 2006 21:34
Location: East Sussex

Re: Kirkdale Village – Street Beautification Project

Post by ALIB »

I would think then that any volunteer-group would be comprised almost exclusively of local home-owners seeking to raise the value of their property.
Or perhaps tennants just wanting to live in a better looking area..

However, I do think BBW raises a valid point that traders would seem to be the main beneficiaries. We're not talking about beautifying residential roads, we're talking essentially about a commercial part of road.
leenewham
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Re: Kirkdale Village – Street Beautification Project

Post by leenewham »

Is there anything wrong with traders wanting to make the area in which they trade better, to increase trade? They are part of the local community.

I didn't start the What If Project to increase the value of my property. I did it because I believed in it. Does anyone seriously think that 'Oh, if I get rid of litter and hand up some floers my property will increase in value or is it more a case of 'yes, that's a good idea, that's the right think to do? Why does it have to be about self interest?

Why not just back a scheme that aims to improve the local environment. Does it really matter if an estate agent, butcher, baker or candlestick maker is behind it?
stuart
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Re: Kirkdale Village – Street Beautification Project

Post by stuart »

rshdunlop wrote:There is no such thing as true altruism.
What a deeply depressing view. I guess someone who makes it has, by definition, has never shared it. Hopefully they will have benefited by it without knowing.

Which is kinda what much altruism seeks to do ... I only wish there was a little less cynicism. I am sorry, like Lee, I do not have time to help. Good on those being 'conned' into making Kirkdale a better place. We need a little more of this exploitation.

Stuart
Robin Orton
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Re: Kirkdale Village – Street Beautification Project

Post by Robin Orton »

Sounds like people want an argument about altruism. I have ventured to book a table in the Town Pub for anyone who would like to join in.
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http://forum.sydenham.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=6304 - added by Admin
Tim Lund
Posts: 6718
Joined: 13 Mar 2008 18:10
Location: Silverdale

Re: Kirkdale Village – Street Beautification Project

Post by Tim Lund »

bigbadwolf wrote: I don't doubt for one second that volunteers take enormous personal satisfaction from sacrificing their free time to help towards a cause they feel justifies the volunteer help it requests. I just think, in this instance, that there's more deserving recipients of volunteer work than a commercial enterprise. Not to mention one that includes (by location, if not association) a multi-billion pound conglomorate that will stand to financially gain from this volunteer work.
I was tempted to respond to this with some parody of Marxist language, because the Wolf here has indeed put his claw on what some will see as a problem, that the main long-run financial gainers from improving an area in this way will be the freeholders of the properties, and there's not much we can do about it short of expropriating the rentier class. (Sorry - I lapsed.) However, these long run winners are not the people who are running businesses from these premises - although when a business does own its own freehold, there will be an over lap. (BTW, this does not mean the Tesco Express, which is a franchise operation - in principle I'd be as happy to help the franchisee here develop his business, knowing it would enrich all those people whose pensions are invested in Tesco plc, as I would help any other business whose freeholder was some property company, anonymous but for the possibility of searching Companies House records.)

So when the Wolf writes that he's not trying to be objectionable, let's take him at face value, and recognise that in looking to clarify grey areas here he is, in his peculiarly charming way, making the sort of impure altruistic contribution to society that others might by helping these businesses as Jotbot is hoping for.
Tim Lund
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Re: Kirkdale Village – Street Beautification Project

Post by Tim Lund »

Robin Orton wrote:Sounds like people want an argument about altruism. I have ventured to book a table in the Town Pub for anyone who would like to join in.
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http://forum.sydenham.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=6304 - added by Admin
OMG - I just knew this was going to turn theological. See you over there later, Fr Orton :D
Tim Lund
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Location: Silverdale

Re: Kirkdale Village – Street Beautification Project

Post by Tim Lund »

danstevens wrote:How about the aforementioned estate agent leads by example and takes down this tiny sign that has been hanging off this building for longer than I can remember....

Image
Good idea Dan. Now here's another. picking up Lee's post earlier post on this issue. How about you developing a Wordpress website as a front end to some system where lingering estate agents' boards can be monitored, and the offending firms named and shamed? It can obviously be done - think FixMyStreet.com - it's just a matter of cost. I made some enquiries a while back following a similar idea I had re empty properties, and was told a ball-park figure of £10,000.

Now, here's the deal. We try to find a local Estate Agent enlightened enough to see that they will get way more positive PR from having their company logo and links appearing on such a site - and of course being out there in front of the list of rule abiding firms - and so pony up the 10K. And maybe a discreet little link promoting you as a web developer?

See - no unnecessary appeals to altruism.

Who knows - Chris Best might even be able to share her little list with us!
Last edited by Tim Lund on 16 Jun 2011 17:46, edited 1 time in total.
angela
Posts: 2
Joined: 15 Jun 2011 16:14
Location: Forest Hill

Re: Kirkdale Village – Street Beautification Project

Post by angela »

Hello all and hello BBW,

Thank you-I got my buttons in a twist and posted a message to you rather then a post. Then realised and deleted!

Techno stupidity on my part.

That and trying to do this at work on the QT...!

Whilst I am all for making the environs more pleasant for everyone where possible, I share some unease at asking for volunteers to do this at the behest of commercial ventures, and I do see the branding of Kirkdale Village as a commercial venture. The original post did not say how these improvements were to be funded-the hanging baskets etc and so some clarification would be much appreciated.
leenewham
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Re: Kirkdale Village – Street Beautification Project

Post by leenewham »

I agree Tim, it would be good if they started with removing the oversize advertising on the Woodsman.

From Kent House Road to Cobbs Corner there are over 35 adverts for estate agents on buildings (I did a quick count on the way home). In addition to these the wood batons that these signs fix to are left behind and not removed. There are over 40 of these left behind on the buildings in the same area. It costs around £15 for estate agents to put these up and another £10 to remove them apparently.

Go to other parts of London and they are free from these adverts.
jotbot
Posts: 37
Joined: 11 Apr 2011 16:37
Location: Kirkdale Village

Re: Kirkdale Village – Street Beautification Project

Post by jotbot »

Unfortunately Lewisham council neglected us up here in the renovations of Sydenham Road, so we are left to our own devices hence ‘Kirkdale Village’ which is the beginning of a traders/community group that can then officially apply for funding for projects via the Sydenham assemblies, and we need help to get things coordinated and don’t worry the traders will do more than their fair share. I think some people have missed the part of the original post ‘supported by the traders’ – which means that volunteers would be compensated appropriately some way for their help and time by way of a freebie or discount perhaps and the traders would no doubt contribute towards the greening of the area.

We just need help from people with the right skills, passion and the time to coordinate and action this project and I had thought the forum would be a good place to find like minded people who can actively help us improve the area for the benefit of everyone.
coll
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Joined: 17 Oct 2007 15:55
Location: sydenham

Re: Kirkdale Village – Street Beautification Project

Post by coll »

I'd volunteer and donate everything needed if they would stop using that ****ing stupid 'rebranded' name. The term 'Kirkdale Village' is ludicrous and is a pasted on afterthought just as that ridiculous mosaic that doesn't seem to have much approval by the people in the area but, strangely, keeps getting more public funding.
Juwlz
Posts: 749
Joined: 26 Oct 2005 20:49
Location: Outer Sydenham

Re: Kirkdale Village – Street Beautification Project

Post by Juwlz »

coll wrote:I'd volunteer and donate everything needed if they would stop using that ****ing stupid 'rebranded' name. The term 'Kirkdale Village' is ludicrous and is a pasted on afterthought just as that ridiculous mosaic that doesn't seem to have much approval by the people in the area but, strangely, keeps getting more public funding.
Well, its a fact of life that usually people who actually DO something end up having the say, rather than people who just post on forums moaning about it! :roll:
Sydenham
Posts: 320
Joined: 2 Sep 2007 09:08
Location: Wells Park

Re: Kirkdale Village – Street Beautification Project

Post by Sydenham »

[Rant on]

If you want to volunteer volunteer. if you don't don't. What's the big deal. I just wish people would leave others alone - if you don't like something that doesn't affect you then don't comment or try and stop it.

[Rant off]
Austin
Posts: 5
Joined: 26 Apr 2011 19:26

Re: Kirkdale Village – Street Beautification Project

Post by Austin »

Is it just me or does anyone else here think the young lady working in the aforementioned estate agents might just be someone that lives in the area and happens to care about it!!!!

I'm quite shocked at some of the spiteful and negative responses posted here.

For goodness sake if you don't want to help then just don't!

You can count me in for help jotbot, just tell me where and when! Keep up the good work!

[ Post made via Mobile Device ] Image
ALIB
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Joined: 12 Oct 2006 21:34
Location: East Sussex

Re: Kirkdale Village – Street Beautification Project

Post by ALIB »

Agreed.

my services are available for manual labour. please pm me
The The
Posts: 14
Joined: 16 Sep 2010 22:25
Location: SYDENHAM

Re: Kirkdale Village – Street Beautification Project

Post by The The »

If someone wanted to say they were from the Village where would this stretch to?
jotbot
Posts: 37
Joined: 11 Apr 2011 16:37
Location: Kirkdale Village

Re: Kirkdale Village – Street Beautification Project

Post by jotbot »

Hello The The,

It is not really for me to define as KV is the chosen name of the association to be more inclusive of the community rather than just a traders group. The main area of focus is the shopping area at the junction of Kirkdale & Dartmouth Road, so perhaps people most interested in the initiative would be those who live on the roads off of Kirkdale and Dartmouth Road? but anyone can be involved and join us in our goals.

Hope that helps.
ksyd
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Joined: 30 Nov 2010 11:01
Location: upper syd

Re: Kirkdale Village – Street Beautification Project

Post by ksyd »

Maybe the volunteers could be paid with the "Kirkdale Pound" that they could use in Kirkdale Village, or a Timebank type setup.
jotbot
Posts: 37
Joined: 11 Apr 2011 16:37
Location: Kirkdale Village

Re: Kirkdale Village – Street Beautification Project

Post by jotbot »

Ksyd - exactly.

We just need to get a action group together and we can work something out.
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