Newlands Park Murder?

[posy]

Is there a need to patronize emotion without emotion one is not driven to bring people legally to book in an unemotional and objective way. Without emotion one is actually an intellectual vacuum. I do get out there and tackle ABS and I see the victims of it too. I see how it escalates from petty to critical levels swiftly if unchecked. Some views here seem be out of kilter to the reality of the dangers to us all. Just take a look at the statistics of the reported street crimes and remember many go unreported. Those stats are fear making. My concern is not what happens when killers are caught or the relevance of Asbo,s. Our judicial system is a different debate. The concern I have is how to deter these criminals from being on our streets in the first place.

[Hill Dweller]

What exactly is your ishoo Posy?

People are simply not expressing themselves to your satisfaction?

Are we in to a competitive mourning competition?


I don't get the feeling you have looked at many threads.

Some might see little point in repeating what has been said on others.


However, this poor man's family are the ones that have the right to hector imhoo and so far I've not heard that they blame anything other than horrible happenstance (and the murderer themself).


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[The Clown]

I don't necessarily want money spent blindly on addional police walking the beat (I am not sure there is a cost benefit?), I do want money/resource spent on dealing with the problems surrounding those disaffected in society, i.e. prevention rather than cure in the truest sense.

In short - I just want nicer neighbours!

But.... probably best not to get me started as I would be bringing back National Service.....
Anybody want to drop and give me 20?

[posy]

HD The fact that urban society over the last forty years has tolerated a large rise in criminal violence on the streets and the reasons why so many have chosen to indulge in this form of criminality are complex issues I grant you. I myself feel able to highlight and protest about this disintegration. I do mourn the loss of safety when out in public. I want change and improvement. The fact you are unable grasp these issues or make constructive comment is not your fault, nor does it have to trouble you if you choose not to allow it to, that is your right. An individuals petulance is something to sympathise with though empathy is impossible. Have a good day and take care out there .

[Voyageur]

Wow HD - I think you have been out patronised!

Anyway, back to the topic - I do hope someone is brought to book over this awful incident, and speedily.

[Hill Dweller]

What makes you think I 'fail to grasp' anything you've posted Posy?

I fail to appreciate it I grant you but don't imagine that's about my grasp ..... (edit: and the use of the word 'tolerated' shows your lack of one imhoo).

Do you suppose I've never suffered from crime or oh 'ecky thump could you even be imagining I've never suffered a family tragedy myself so I can't empathise? But with whom am I supposed to empathise? The bereaved family or the poster with the 'I care more than you' attitude? tell me Posy.

Do you imagine that chest-beating and Tarzan wailing would achieve anything?
What have you done yourself since you started railing at people (edit: evoking the media's way of 'informing'), some of whom could be quaking in their homes or calling taxis in the belief that that corner really is 'horribly deserted'.

Being frightened and staying off the streets is NOT the way to send any message to murdering scum.


Soooooo ..... having won the competition for 'most demonstrative about their outrage' Posy ..... what will YOU be doing next?

Edit: Exchanged some abuses of ID.
Plus to add a question ..... are there cultural reasons Posy for you being unimpressed with what could seem English reserve ? Explain if so.

[Hill Dweller]

Wow HD - I think you have been out patronised!

I'm willing to pass along that particular title IF the tiara's big enough

Anyway, back to the topic - I do hope someone is brought to book over this awful incident, and speedily.

The 35yr old was bailed, an 18yr old later arrest also has been

[Eagle]

As someone mentioned perhaps a form of Nat Service would be a good idea.
To give 2 years back to society after all society as paid most 18 year olds up to that age would perhaps give them a new perspective.
I am not sure it should be military ( although that could be an option for some ) but there are other tasks which could be done.

[Hill Dweller]

I agree that the military wouldn't be ideal.


Violent scum shouldn't be armed/legitimised.

[posy]

Perhaps working on the land for a couple of years is one of the answers it is hard disciplined work away from urban areas learning skills and another way of living. Putting a thug in an alien environment and demanding they put their energies to better use may be beneficial for some.Of course it would take proper funding which is always a problem. The military have enough on their hands without having to deal with urban thugs. HD cultural what do you mean are you asking my nationality or trying to cast aspersions upon it? Hardly polite and how on earth can that matter in the face of violent crimes being committed. Those arrested were bailed so I doubt they committed that particular crime. I thinking walking out last night that some of the back streets locally are ill lit, brighter street lighting may help, criminals do not want to be seen or witnessed and some of our street lighting though creating a charming effect it is outdated .

[Eagle]

Yes working on the land would be OK for some , others in care homes or clearing up cities etc.

One plus factor would be those working on the land could listen to The Archers. That would civilise them.

[posy]

Well said Eagle some radio 7 may help that process also!

[CaptainCarCrash]

Drugs are the scourge of society and poverty is just as bad. What desperate situation could possibly lead an individual to commit such a heinous crime as to take another's life in such a cowardly way is beyond anything that I know. It really is quite harrowing to think that a persons life is worth the value of some personal affects and pocket change. To suggest that these types of criminals can be corrected through some kind of military service or hard labour is not really a very plausible analogy because one you need to have a level of self worth and secondly, can a truly bad person be forced to change? These criminals should be made to pay their debt to society but we really need to look at the root causes of such incidents.

Sadly I think there will always be an element of people who refuse or are unable to conform and contribute in a positive way and also there are those who are poor unfortunates who loose their way through addiction.

[Hill Dweller]

HD cultural what do you mean are you asking my nationality or trying to cast aspersions upon it?

Hardly polite and how on earth can that matter in the face of violent crimes being committed.

How is asking about a person's origins casting aspersions on them?
It would require me having a scale comparing the quality of different cultures and thinking my own is at the top.
I don't, but that doesn't mean I don't recognise there are different attitudes.
Neither do I have an understanding about your demand for people to demonstrate their feelings here, in public as it were, and in the absence of that you seem to be accusing them of not feeling enough.
You are the poster casting aspersions Posy.

I don't go for yellow ribbons and I don't go for roadside shrines.
I did find the floral gifts placed at the bus stop touching.


As for the murderer? I hope s/he is in a living hell.
But please don't imagine I'm seeking your approval with that.

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[posy]

Local peoples ideas on keeping our area safer and preventing crime should surely be of interest. We all live here and we all matter. It seems to me you do possess a scale HD. thats fine by me I would not seriously regard your remarks or approve of them it is of no importance. Perhaps I am of a calmer cultural background than yourself. The flowers are a tribute to a lost loved one if it helps with the pain I don,t knock it I see it as a rather new English way of dealing with these situations or perhaps not so new when one considers war memorials etc.

[bensonby]

Those arrested were bailed so I doubt they committed that particular crime

How in God's name did you come to that conclusion?!?!?!?

urban society over the last forty years has tolerated a large rise in criminal violence on the streets

And have you got any evidence to back up this assertion?






Why on earth do people insist on posting stuff without an evidence to back themselves up. And when someone does quote sources etc. there is hardly any comment?

[bensonby]

Just have a brief look at the British Crime Survey Data the rates of violent crimein Lewisham, as an example, have been pretty constant for the past 10 years....this is congruent with lots of other places: many, in fact, have falling violent crime rates.


The trend for robbery, whilst showing Lewisham as having a larger number of offences than the national average, shows a sharp drop in numbers. Wheras elsewhere the trend is roughly similar to the violent crime statistics.

Come on Posy, where's your data to back up your assertions?

[Eagle]

Bensonby
You ask why Posy said that as they have been bailed they are probably not guilty.

I would have thought it likely , even in todays softly softly policing , that a murder suspect would not be released on Bail.

[bensonby]

Bensonby
You ask why Posy said that as they have been bailed they are probably not guilty.

I would have thought it likely , even in todays softly softly policing , that a murder suspect would not be released on Bail.

No, lots of suspects - even for murder - can get bail. If they were not under investigation anymore then they would be NFA'd. They are on bail so that they can remain under investigation. The simple fact of the matter is that the police can only hold people for short periods of time without charge and that detention in a police station must be necessary to progress the investigation. Once the clock runs out then that's it - no more time in a police staiton. If the police have more enquiries to make they bail out to suspend that clock so that they can be brought back later for the additional evidence etc ot be put to them in interview and so on.

That's the law.

[Eagle]

This seems wrong. The Police should be allowed to do their job
If one or other of these persons are suspected of murder , surely they should be allowed to be held in custody.
What if they go on the run.