Crystal Palace stadium re-development?

[stuart]

One would have thought our friends up at http://cpca.org.uk/ would be sharpening their claws. But they still seem to be fighting the last war ...

Stuart

[simon]

I think the Palace move to the park would be great myself, if West Ham get to go the Olympic stadium.
Selhurst is a dump of a stadium and should Palace get back in the Premier League they could do with something better. Local NIMBYS should remember that they bought their houses next door to a huge public venue that should be utilised more, not less.

[perryman]

I think it would be nice in theory if CPFC could return to their roots at the park. Also it would be nice to see football return to a site famous for hosting the FA Cup finals from 1893 to 1914 - funnily enough Tottenham played there in 1901 as an amateur team, winning the cup after a replay.

But here is an interesting quote from Tuesday, after the CPFC leak:

Doug Patterson, the chief executive of the London borough of Bromley, which owns the freehold on Crystal Palace Park, said he would meet Spurs officials this week.

"The Spurs plans would be positive for the area because I am not sure what else would happen," he said. "There are not any other significant plans. Nobody has got the money to spruce up Crystal Palace. South Londoners would benefit with the Spurs plans. They would not have any direct benefit from the West Ham plans."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jan/1 ... ic-stadium

No other significant plans?
He dismisses both the masterplan and the CPFC plans in one stroke!

[admin]

I have added a poll (above). I have deliberately worded it so a vote cannot be interpreted as 'support' for either alternative and avoid, perhaps, the most popular alternative of 'neither'.

The nub question is if we have to have one to save the park - which?

If or when one of these projects gets traction then we can run a poll of whether it be a good or necessary thing.

Admin

[davegr]

Would you like it next door to your house Simon?

[Hill Dweller]

Why does the Park have to become a building site for a few years Admin?

Judging by one or two comments I have the impression that some people haven't been there in the past five years. It did use to be a dump when I was taking sprogs there but in the recent past it's been as transformed as a green space should be.

What effect would a flipping football ground and its attendees have on the grass? The fabulous thing about the musical and firework events is that they just happen, they don't involve thousands and thousands of people and cars every few days throughout the year. Even though Selhurst Pk is as far away as it is (with its very many public transport options) I've been stuck at Westwood Hill at times with no way out. We're an area with too many roads that there's no option but to travel the whole length of ...... oh boy, all those years crawling along Syd Hill between my part of it and the transmitter to get down to Sth Circ in the rush hour ....... all that way round the lovely woods.

I hope that any 'plans' that are being 'announced' will require public votes first.

.

[JeeBee]

Quite simply the new Olympic stadium was built to be a lasting athletics legacy for the country, and I can't see anyone thinking that using it for 30 days and then knocking it down is a good idea. West Ham are a Newham based club, and they're a good potential tenant. Spurs only thought to get in contact with Bromley yesterday (presumably after hearing about CPFC's plans), the NSC is certainly down their list of priorities in this project.

The National Sports Centre is run down, and could do with a full re-development, not enhancement. A decent compact football stadium would have a far smaller footprint than the existing stadium (I stuck Selhurst Park over the NSC (just the stadium arena) and it is around half the size). The existing stadium is a sprawl, and also there are a lot of fenced off areas around it that would hopefully go with a proper stadium in place - thus opening up more of the park (or to provide a running track external to the football stadium, etc).

The fans would filter out via the race track to CP station and Anerley Hill, or via the wide road to Penge West station. The worst would be Crystal Palace winning something, and the dinosaurs gaining some scarves and hats - but they're pretty grumpy anyway so it would be an improvement.

[Duke of Clarence]

The fans would filter out via the race track to CP station and Anerley Hill, or via the wide road to Penge West station. The worst would be Crystal Palace winning something, and the dinosaurs gaining some scarves and hats - but they're pretty grumpy anyway so it would be an improvement.

I can't see how 22,000 fans can just "filter" out the stadium, more spill out. And while the best senario would be for most to come by public transport and what will the reality of that mean for non-football fans wanting to use public transport? I would imagine the bus & train stations ( and they've flagged up Sydenham train St on the boards as well as CP, Penge East & West) being overwhelmed by the arrival and departure of rival fans. Even so 22,000 people could still bring 1-2,000 extra cars to the area. They are talking abiout avoiding the Triangle (which is good) but what will that mean for the surrounding environs? It is likely that roads leading on to Crystal Palace Park Road will become target parking areas for match days.

The CPFC boards have some interesting posts about fans looking forward to wrapping their scarves around the dinosaurs, trees and railings in the park when their team wins, what concerns me is what some fans may be inclined to do when their team looses. Let's face it unless there's a draw one set of loosing fans will be departing from the ground each week. Anyhow let's see what CPFC announce this afternoon at 3pm be interesting to see what the community benefits will be cos apart from the NSC rebuild I can only see negative impact on the park and wider community as it would be engulfed on match days, which are also key trading and leisure days.

[JeeBee]

I think some people have this image of a rolling brawl or some 80s horror hooliganism occurring. By the time the supporters leave the park via several exits, they will be dispersed - a steady stream of course - then then ten minutes later, not many at all. Being in the middle of a park, the nearest neighbours are some hairy pigs in the college farm. The location is very good for crowd management, with opposing fans (um, Millwall?) easily shuffled off to Penge West to go back to New Cross Gate, whilst the home fans can go the other direction to Anerley Hill and the triangle - which is a noisy place anyway. Road traffic is a concern, but the location is arguably better for public transport than Selhurst Park. And going out on some Saturday nights in the triangle area might be a bit busier but most matches finish by 5pm.

I'm sure that all the pubs in the area are really upset with the prospect of filling their pubs on Wednesday nights and Saturday afternoons! It's probably far enough from Sydenham to not have a noticeable effect in the town itself.

[Hill Dweller]

.............The fans would filter out via the race track to CP station ................

Aaaaagh that would be horrendous.

That station has been so beautified recently and is so high I'd think it the worst possible venue for happy or grumbly footie fans, tackling those steps even when sober is quite a challenge but I'd hate them to be changed in any way to accommodate possibly-careless/rowdy chaps 'in a hurry' .

The history of CP matters too much.

I think it's appalling that BigBiz has the wherewithalls to make such a boastful 'announcement' and hope it hasn't been endorsed by council members of any type.

[Duke of Clarence]

The history of CP matters too much.I think it's appalling that BigBiz has the wherewithalls to make such a boastful 'announcement' and hope it hasn't been endorsed by council members of any type.

Hot off press, the proposal is for a 40,000 capacity stadium plus a new indoor aquatic centre, a reconfigured indoor sports complex within the existing structure and a new community athletics facility see http://www.cpfc.co.u...2271669,00.html

In answer to HD's query this is supported by both Bromley and Croydon LBs see http://www.southlond...0ground%20plans
Great gush from Greater London Assembly member for Croydon and Sutton Cllr Steve O'Connell, who said: “Croydon Council wants to see Crystal Palace Football Club thrive on and off the pitch. While we would be sad to see the club leave the borough we will actively support a move to the National Sports Centre site if that is what is judged by owners and fans to be in the best interests of the club."

[JeeBee]

It looks quite nice.

First stage is £50,000,000 investment to get a 25,000 seater stadium, aquatic centre, etc, and probably all the other sweeteners for the park required.

[stuart]

It looks quite nice.

Yes - all artists impressions do.

Lots of green as if you look closely all the car parks have been grassed over. That's very nice. But will all the players, directors and corporate box occupants be arriving by London Overground too?

I don't think this is very realistic. The killer question is how much of the park will be freely available on Saturdays/Sundays or midweek nights. There is no exit shown for most except across the Park. Surely that will mean gates and most pathways would need to be marshalled/policed. Would parents trust to taking their tiny tots to the playground during matches. Would ebullient or disappointed lads be trusted to follow every twist and turn through the maze.

I can't help feeling this is a straight choice of using South London's biggest green space for pleasure, sport and leisure or turn it into a major commercial entertainment complex. Co-existence looks difficult.

Stuart (who was in the park last evening HD!)

[JeeBee]

"midweek nights" ... the park gates currently shut at 4.45pm! Sure, in the summer they're open later, but then again, there aren't many matches then. The park is currently under-utilised at night, apart from local youths and the few residents.

There appears to be parking to the left of the stadium on the race track.

I'm sure the plans will incorporate the existing development plan in due course. I suspect that CPFC's hand was forced because of Spurs' plan to create a 25,000 seater variant on the current carbuncle (which would also have changed the development plan, but not look half as nice given the far smaller amount of money they would have spent).

Overall there will be more green space in the park. There will be a new aquatics centre. There will still be a running track that's open to all (as opposed to the currently closed off training courts and big white dome thing). You won't see the stadium in the lower part of the park (because of the ridge in the way).

If it's a choice between this plan, and spurs' unknown plan, i'd rather the local club gets it.

[davegr]

Unless most of the park is kept available for everyone that uses it over a weekend I can't see the local community standing for this.

The park is used by many people, young and old, dog walkers, families etc. Unless some sort of guarantee is made to keep access to the stadium from key points, allowing everone to still use the park on match days, I can't see the local community letting it happen.

I wonder how residents opposite Crystal Palace station feel, because that will almost certainly be the main point of entry.

The whole area has become a much more pleasant place to live over the last 10 years or so. I think the football club re-locating would be a terrible development.

[stuart]

"midweek nights" ... the park gates currently shut at 4.45pm! Sure, in the summer they're open later, but then again, there aren't many matches then. The park is currently under-utilised at night, apart from local youths and the few residents.

You are wrong. The vehicular gates to the lower park are closed. Others remain open and at 7.30pm last night all the grassed over car parks were full. The sports centre was going full blast and lots else was happening in the park.

It is you who doesn't use it JayBee. Help support those that do. Why should CPFC deprive us of important public space? They already have a ground. Why deprive others? Just so some property developers can make a quick buck?

Stuart

[Wing]

From today's Evening Standard:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard- ... stadium.do

[JeeBee]

More images: http://www.cpfc.co.uk/page/News/0,,1032 ... 26,00.html

The plans, in accordance with the development plan for the park, create more green space, especially with the subterranean aquatic centre.

[Wing]

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Admin

[simon]

davegr, it is highly unlikely that anyone is going to try and build a football stadium by Knighton Park Road.
Crystal Palace Park used to host a number of well attended events but these have fallen off recently and at the same time the Park has become neglected. Apart from Palace' or Spurs' plans the only other option I have seen to provide investment is building some houses.
Its like those people who bought houses near the Herne Hill velodrome who moan about the Good Friday meeting and don't want it developed. Or those residents of Fulham who object to any plans to develop the Cottage in the hope the club will move away.