Crystal Palace stadium re-development?

[perryman]

13/1/11: "Tottenham/AEG have offered to pay for an upgrade of the Crystal Palace athletics stadium, providing 9,500 extra permanent seats to raise its capacity to 25,000 with the option of adding a further 15,000 seats to stage a World Championship. "
Daily Telegraph story

Background: As part of their plans to redevelop the Olympic Stadium and convert it to a football ground, Tottenham would also be obliged to fund an athletics stadium elsewhere.

This all subject to Tottenham winning the bid for the Olympic Stadium, rather than West Ham who are happy to keep the running track. The winner will be announced in the next couple of months.
Not sure of the money available for athletics, but might be up to £50m?

Very odd that the masterplan for crystal palace is for the jubilee stand to be flattened and national athletics events to be hosted elsewhere.
I can't believe Tottenham would have come up with these proposals without consulting anyone.

[dickp]

Exactly. The masterplan suggested the stadium be (half) flattened for a very good reason: it was hardly ever used, and was basically a whopping great white elephant taking up valuable park space. It had no viable future.

[stuart]

Do we assume that in this time of financial distress at government level that the highest bid will win despite all the promises, money spent etc? That is maximise the return to the taxpayer.

If that were to come from Spurs and also solved the Bromley/LDA/UK Athletics funding for CP Park?

In other words if we have to choose between a run down park and a flash new sporting facility at CP - which would be best?

Stuart

[Tim Lund]

perryman - would that be Steve? - http://www.steveperryman.com/playingprofile.htm

[dickp]

I'm not sure the stadium was part of the funding agreement for the park enhancements. So we'd get a shiney new white elephant and keep a run-down park.

Magic.

[perryman]

Rumour today is that Crystal Palace FC are reaching agreement with Bromley to return to the site of the national athletics stadium!

This might be subject to Tottenham refurbishing the current stadium.
Alternatively this may have been the missing detail in the original masterplan.
Or it is all internet rumour.

We shall see.

PS My user name is named after the Vale where I live.

[Mr Tiggins]

Personally, I'd be delighted if Crystal Palace FC move to CP Park. I think it'd be great for the area, and the current sports stadium looks in need of investment.

However, there is the issue of keeping a National quality athletics track in the capital.

I am not convinced that Tottenham will move to the Olympic stadium, as they have stated that they do not want an athletics track to sit between the fans and the pitch. I am also led to believe that Spurs maybe using the Olympic stadium bid as a means to gain extra leverage over Haringey Council before a White Hart Lane redevelopment takes place. The local area in Tottenham is dependent on WHL already and it would have a huge effect on the local Economy if Spurs withdrew.

Instead, I hope West Ham take over the Olympic Stadium as they are willing to maintain a running track. This will free up Crystal Palace Stadium for redevelopment as a football ground. Wimbledon FC will reunite and move back to Selhurst Park. And we'll all live happily ever after. There.

[Voyageur]

Conversely I wouldn't be delighted if CP football club moved from Selhurst Park to CP Park - I have experienced the disruption caused to local streets around Selhurst Park on match days and would hate to see this mayhem visited on CP/the triangle

[Dorian]

Croydon Council will do everything possible to stop C.P.F.C .migrating to C.P.P. they would not want to lose the Club to Bromley Council

[Voyageur]

Croydon Council will do everything possible to stop C.P.F.C .migrating to C.P.P. they would not want to lose the Club to Bromley Council

Why is that, out of interest?

[ALIB]

CPFC press conference on Thursday

http://www.holmesdale.net/

[JeeBee]

That's an interesting development. Hopefully any stadium redevelopment would be inspired architecturally by the Crystal Palace itself (but without the tendency to burn down). Are there enough pubs around the park to support a football club though...

[Hill Dweller]

Conversely I wouldn't be delighted if CP football club moved from Selhurst Park to CP Park - I have experienced the disruption caused to local streets around Selhurst Park on match days

and would hate to see this mayhem visited on CP/the triangle

Yes and yes.
The one-way triangle was such an easy improvement to make but could still get clogged up to distraction and mean the little parking there is in CP would become un-useable because of potential damage (in ref to cars squeezing past, not a comment about humans).
Before the one-way change I used to work down near Haslemere, a 95m per day round trip and the stretch from CP cop shop to the pub that's now painted black could take longer than the preceding 45 miles had.

[Hill Dweller]

CPFC press conference on Thursday

http://www.holmesdale.net/

http://www.holmesdale.net/page.php?id=82&story=5003
Crystal Palace are set to announce plans to relocate the club to The Crystal Palace National Sports Centre.



I don't like the sound of that 'announce plans'.
Wouldn't they need permission and aren't two councils involved?

[Duke of Clarence]

CPFC press conference on Thursday
I don't like the sound of that 'announce plans'.
Wouldn't they need permission and aren't two councils involved?

Me neither HD!The park is the on the perimeter of 5 adjoining councils but it falls within the brough of Bromley. The surrounding highways and byways would need a massive overhaul to accomodate the flow of traffic, cars and pedestrians, between 20,00 to 50,000 if the posts on the Holmesdale Forum are accurate (not all CPFC fans live in CP they come from a wide catchment). The adjoining authorities don't have the budgets to support let alone improve local infra structure, nor do TFL.

There's also the small issue surrounding the approved masterplan (years of consultation, shed loads of public money) which includes the rebuilding of the athletics stadium not to mention the planning procedures and obstacles such as it being a Conservation Area, Grade ll listed park and the need for a costly Environmental Impact Assessment.

However most CPFC fans are forrit, most locals are against and traders and Triangle businesses are split. The pubs and the fast food outlets are jumping for joy!

Concerns about the area from a Palace fan:

gstone FlagYesterday 9.14pm

I would imagine that crystal palace would get a bit of a spruce up from Bromely council (it could do with one!) so it wouldn't look like such a concrete jungle.
My main concern would be about the travel/traffic/congestion. It's all well and good moving grounds to an urban location not on a retail park like Reading etc but would we actually be able to get there. The train link is appalling and the roads a jam packed on a normal saturday afternoon so god only knows what they'd be like with 20,000 people trying to make their way in.

from http://www.holmesdal...d=107173&page=3

I would much rather see a redeveloped Athletics Stadium hosting range of international, national and regional events. Anyhow way things are going there's not going to be much left of CPP. The masterplan has approved the sell off of parkland for housing so the edges will be nibbled away and yesterday I came across this that talks about building a stadium on the hill top as well as one to replace the NSC:

taken from http://www.holmesdal...30#post_1871173
Uphill Flag Bedford Today 5.36pm

I am surprised and much chuffed that us old gits appear, almost to a man, to be in favour of the move. We all seem to quote our happy memories of the 50's and 60's (in my case also the late 40's) at Selhurst and because of this you would have expected opposition to leaving - but it seems quite the reverse - great!
There is one point that may be made clear by CPFC 2010
at the press conference: the new ground may not
necessarily be built on the athletics stadium. It is possible this will continue with our ground purpose built nearby. The recent Great Train Journeys program
featuring the site of the original Crystal Palace is now made the more interesting ...as also are all the old Cup Final photos in many Football Photo-books.

[JeeBee]

If West Ham win the Olympic Stadium on Thursday (which they should in my opinion) then the National Sports Centre becomes a nice, big, white elephant. Which Bromley Council have to pay to maintain or demolish.

Crystal Palace can come in instead, if they've got the money to redevelop (!), knock it down, get rid of the running track, build a couple of stands (enough for their current attendances of up to 18,000 - one 12,000 main stand and one 6,000 end stand), move in, sell Selhurst Park, then build the other two stands. All in a footprint smaller than the existing athletics stadium, that could be well masked by trees and the surrounding hillocks. It would do wonders to local trade on match days. Attendance at the park would increase too, as it is discovered for the first time by people.

The location is well served by transport - Crystal Palace Station, Anerley/Penge West Stations, Penge East/Sydenham Hill stations, and the bus station. Also the tram extension to CP would presumably be built in time. Hell, why not extend the Victoria line through Dulwich to CP too whilst you're at it (yeah, not going to happen) - make it come out at the old Crystal Palace High Station location, and revamp the parade underpass to be a direct path to the stadium.

Another post on that forum states about Selhurst Park: "I understand that in around 18 months the Old Stand will be condemned and H & S certs' not renewed." - the place is falling apart. They might choose to move in to the existing stadium quite early - Wikipedia says "The athletics stadium has a capacity of 15,500, which can be increased up to 24,000 with temporary seating.".

And as regards people getting there - in 1913 121,919 people were there for the FA Cup Final.

edit: The Telegraph understands that Palace have been in discussions with various bodies, including the mayor's office, since last June. They are expected to propose a community athletics track and swimming pool.

[stuart]

The presence of crowds and police on match days or nights may halt many current sporting activities centred on the park. Allowing 22 players to run around for money would probably stop many hundreds enjoying free fun and fitness.

I quiver in horror at becoming a NIMBY!

Stuart

[Dorian]

Croydon Council will do everything possible to stop C.P.F.C .migrating to C.P.P. they would not want to lose the Club to Bromley Council

Why is that, out of interest?

The area around Selhurst is allready less than vibrant. If CPFC move i guess the next step would be a residential Planning application on the then redundant S. park. Croydon will resist the application due to policies of retaining Community and sporting facilites and therefore will face a long expensive battlle with developers.

Croydon Council also have apirations to become " London's third " city, and in this promotion use the fact they are home to a National Football team. Hence I guess Croydon will not support the move, not much they can do about it though

I think it will a great move, will bring revenue to the Triangle and may force an improvement to the Traffic control systems in place at the moment.

[Duke of Clarence]

The presence of crowds and police on match days or nights may halt many current sporting activities centred on the park. Allowing 22 players to run around for money would probably stop many hundreds enjoying free fun and fitness.

I quiver in horror at becoming a NIMBY!

Stuart

Here's another insight into the fan base mindset taken from the Holmedale forum that makes light of all the "just think about all the lovely benefits CPFC will bring to the area" jargon:

don't change the roads and infrastructure, force people to change their behaviour.
...
Limit on-site parking and access. Ban non-resident match day on-street parking within 1-2 miles of the ground.

And then provide alternatives, park and ride from Bromley, Croydon, or even further away. Maximise the use of all available local railway stations including Penge West (from Croydon/London Bridge/East London Line), Penge East (Bromley, Kent, London Victoria), Crystal Palace and Anerley. Run shuttle buses from Tube stations such as Brixton.

And stuff the NIMBYs, it'll get passed to the Secretary of State and they'll OK it anyway and they'll be the first to complain if nothing happens in the park and it goes to ruin and their sports centre shuts down.

I'm a YIMBY - Yes In My Back Yard'

*quivers in horror*

[JeeBee]

Bromley and Croydon councils are happy with it... http://www.southlondon-today.co.uk/Spor ... nd%20plans