Rolling Stones in Sydenham

[LivesNearby]

According to this article, "in the early Sixties, a BBC producer developed a pop music showcase for Rolf to present and the pilot they made together featured the then unknown Rolling Stones, playing in a little church in Sydenham."

Which church? Anyone know?

[michael]

http://www.nzentgraf.de/books/tcw/1963.htm

631219A 19th December: UK TV (BBC) 'Cops And Robbers', Sydenham.
- Come On (Chuck Berry) -playback
Note: Never aired pilot show for a new series. The Stones were "acting"
as a band, playing in a youth club.

This was probably not a proper gig, unlike a few weeks later in Forest Hill.

http://www.nzentgraf.de/books/tcw/1964.htm
They played in Forest Hill on 3rd January 1964 and in Catford on 9th May 1964

[bigbadwolf]

from 0.37 seconds onwards, you'll find some incredibly rare footage from both Keith Richard's and Mick Jagger's respective childhoods. It''s widely aknowledged as essential amongst dedicated Rolling Stones fan. Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=too2T2ZGP_U

[Eagle]

Seem to recall in the late 50's and 60's Rolf Harris lived in Border Road. Had his signed picture in a dry cleaners.

[admin]

I think I recall Rolf Harris in his autobiography recalling doing a pilot for either RSG or similar in St Michael's Church Hall with the Rolling Stones (who AFAIR appeared in the first real RSG). Rolf admits he was awful and was immediately dropped. I have Bill Wyman's (a Sydenham man!) autobiography which does refer to their Forest Hill gig but I don't have access to it atm.

Rolf lived in Border Road for many years. He bought two houses which he joined up and had a studio at the bottom of the garden. The studio was later taken over by Norman McCann (whose garden backed onto Rolf's) and used as his Opera library. When Norman died the contents were, I think, donated to the RCM. The library was demolished about 5 years ago and replaced with 'Manser Lodge' and Norman's orchard is now the block of flats at the bottom of Lawrie Park Gardens.

Admin

[Eagle]

Thanks Admin
Does anyone remember an edition of This is Your Life with good old Eamon Andrews probably in the 70's .
They had an Aboriginal Gentleman over who was living in his garden. He knew the guy from his early years in WA.

[Pat Trembath]

Correction, Admin.

Norman McCann's Collection was transferred to the Royal Academy of Music in 1999 and now forms an important part of the Academy's Museum Collections at 1-5 York Gate, Marylebone Road.

It was not just his Library but a lifetime's collection of musical artefacts and ephemera, including a large quantity of opera and concert programmes, a collection of vocal scores of opera and oratorio, letters and autographed photographs of international singers, conductors and composers, biographical material, silk programmes and much, much more.

It took four transit vans and two pantechnicons to remove the collection from Lawrie Park Gardens to the safe keeping of the Royal Academy of Music!

[lukekelly]

According to this month's Mojo magazine article about Brian Jones and the Stones' earliest period, a schoolboy Mick Jagger spent a year rehearsing with his very first band in a house in Alexandra Road!

[mikej]

I think Bill Wyman's home was actually in Penge/SE20 not Sydenham

[Eagle]

Amazing 50 years of concerts . How have they done it.

Remember their first records on Ready Steady Go . Surprised to read today that Charlie Watts did not join the band until 63 , I did not know that.

[14BradfordRoad]

Amazing 50 years of concerts . How have they done it.

Obviously NOT by taking as many drugs as they had us believe at the time. They're not
doing so bad for their respective ages are they? 50 years of big concerts is no mean feat
and must have required untold energy especially on Jaggers part.

[Eagle]

I agree for gentlemen of 70 ish they are doing very well. Why did we not put them in The European Song Contest instead of Tom Jones' understudy.

Well done them.

[Manwithaview1]

Amazing 50 years of concerts . How have they done it.

Obviously NOT by taking as many drugs as they had us believe at the time. They're not
doing so bad for their respective ages are they? 50 years of big concerts is no mean feat
and must have required untold energy especially on Jaggers part.

You are joking. The Stones took huge amount of drugs. Various auto/biographies confirm this. The problem with drugs is purity. The cut drugs are cheaper but far more impure. Purer drugs are better for the body. One can function quite well by taking tiny doses of pure drugs. There was an excellent doc on heroin users in London who take the tiniest bit. They work and function normally. The users all said the cheaper (cut) stuff nearly killed them.

I would never touch the stuff myself...

[Annie.]

Seem to recall in the late 50's and 60's Rolf Harris lived in Border Road. Had his signed picture in a dry cleaners.

He was there in the 70s as well Eagle

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Eagle]

Thanks Annie
I believe he moved along to somewhere on the Thames in the West. Why did he leave the rural delights of Border Road ?

[davetheeagle]

It would definitely have been in the old church hall of St Michaels in Bell Green (now St Michaels House). As I haven't lived in Sydenham for years I'm not sure whether this is a completely new building or a re-furb of the old building. The old building had a stage at one end and could have been used for small concerts.

The story I heard and this would have been in the mid 60s was that the vicar of St Michaels at that time, Alec Methuen?, and presumably others were attempting to diffuse the growing rivalry between the Mods and Rockers. The idea was a TV programme where there could be a discussion about their different cultures coupled with music provided by the Stones and I believe the Beatles. Not sure that I would agree that either really represented Mods (Beatles) and Rockers (Stones) but they were the big two emerging groups at that time.

The vicar was disappointed that it didn't happen as he felt it might have stopped the growing violence between the two groups that culminated in the seaside riots in 1964.

According to another thread Bill Wyman lived at 18 Miall Road for the first few months of his life.

[expatJames]

I can't figure how I missed this thread until now but this is what I remember of St Michaels's Hall.
I lived in Sydenham during the 60s.
My Memory is all based on watching bands play live.
St Mick's as we called it was for dancing.
When the stage was at the back, ie furthest from the entrance. Maybe 1963 I saw the Preachers there (wonderful lead guitarist who later died in a car crash)
There was a big refurb of the hall and the stage was moved to one side and a coffee bar built at the back end.
The band that played there most often was The Herd.
The Stones played one gig just as they were getting famous and the entrance fee went up to, I think, 7 shillings and 6 pence just for that one night.
Rolf Harris, for a time, was involved with the club and jammed there with a band that had a horn section. He was a real good guy.
It was indeed multi-cultural as there were both mods and rockers as regulars.
The Zombies played there and the keyboard player was sensational.
Kenny and the Wranglers were fun, and Sonny Charles' backing band were brilliant.
Hope that all helps.
James.

[Michael Viner]

James-Thanks for sharing those great local musical memories but I think you have two 60's U.S. Soul men mixed up -you probably mean Sonny Childe and his backing band The TNT,rather than Sonny Charles (of the Phil Spector- produced classic 'Black Pearl' fame-who never came to the UK to my knowledge) Sonny Childe,real name Ronald Greaves ,was a nephew of Sam Cooke who moved to the UK in 1963 and was very popular in South London,particularly Lewisham,where he was based,I believe. In the 1980's I found quite a few of his 60's records in local junk shops and charity shops including his popular Northern Soul 45's 'Two Lovers' (Polydor) and 'Giving Up On Love' (Decca) .He moved back to the States in the late 60's and recorded under the name R.B.Greaves ,having a big hit with 'Take A Letter Maria' in 1969.He passed away in 2012,aged 68
Homegrown Soul man Kenny Bernard of Kenny & The Wranglers is still with us-he lives in Norfolk now,I think I heard,but in the 60's lived really local to the old St.Michaels Hall-just across the road in Holmshaw Rd.!

[expatJames]

Hello Michael Viner.
Thanks for the update on "Sonny". It has certainly made me try to remember more.
I could not remember the backing band's name, but if you say it was The TNT I will go with that.
But I do remember how good they were....
I'd be interested to know if you were in Sydenham during the sixties, or if you are a music historian?
James

[Michael Viner]

Hello James- well,both really;I was around in Sydenham in the 60's but only an infant,and still here.Definitely a lifelong music lover and musical historian,as well as having an interest in the history of other subjects.
Glad to be of help-hope you're enjoying life in the U.S.
Michael