GOOD NEWS

[Dot]

I don't think Sydenham is overrun with hairdressers; there are probably the right amount as some have closed. It goes back to my point about whether this forum is representative of the population of the town or not. I don't recall many discussions on this forum about which is the best hairdresser for example. The silent majority carry on with their business whether it has a nice sign above it or not. Actually I consider that Sydenham High St is fairly representative of its diverse residents and may only need a few more "upmarket" establishments which pander to the whim of the property-owning middle-classes in order to reach equilibrium. There's the Kirkdale bookstore for the literati and the Two Half's for the gramatically-challenged. There's LA Fitness for the healthy and Dallas chicken for the unhealthy. The DIY shop is for nails and paint and there's a plethora of outlets to paint your nails. There are bookkeepers, bookstores and bookmakers. In all there is a reasonable balance whether you have your chips in a polystyrene tray or on your shoulder.

[digime2007]

Dot, you've just listed different types of shops, you haven't shown the high street has the diversity to attract a broad range of local residents.

The fact is a large number of Sydenham residents routinely "carry on with their business" by going to other areas to spend their money because the high street doesn't attract them. That can't be good for Sydenham or its residents can it?

Sydenham Road (and Kirkdale) is big enough to support a wide range of places suited to nearly everyone. If there's a big enough choice footfall increases and everyone wins.

[leenewham]

Hmm, I'm with Digime on this one I'm afraid Dot.

12 places to get your hair cut from the station to Bell Green is the right amount?

I don't think Sydenham has a diverse range of shops/restaurants.

If it has an art shop, a bicycle shop, an art shop, a thai restaurant, a music shop, a modern furniture store, some decent clothes or shoe shops that don't just get everything made in sweat shops, etc then it would be getting there. Keeping the library would be good too!

I've seen some demographics, the high street is not a great representation of who lives here. Digime is right when he says that many people who could be spending their money in Sydenham spend it in other areas because there is nothing for them here. Sydenham doesn't attract people from other areas. My old neighbours who lived in social housing hated Sydenham Road and shopped and ate elsewhere.

I totally believe Sydenham can support AND cater for all tastes. And pound shops and greasy spoons don't have to look shabby.

[bigbadwolf]

If it has an art shop, a bicycle shop, another art shop (designed by me, hopefully) thai restaurant, a music shop, a modern furniture store, Cous cous market, Fairtrade boutique, bistro, micro-brewery, farm shop, yoghurt bar, i-store, homemade jewellery shop, birkenstocks, Gaelic storytelling workshops, homeschooling, some decent clothes or shoe shops that don't just get everything made in sweat shops, etc then it would be getting there.

Keeping the library would be a thing fo the past!

A new, locally sourced, horizon, so to speak.

[Tim Lund]

Revealing - a bit like someone who says 'My friend has this real psychological problem ...' and it's obvious it's him. So by pretending it's Lee who wants those further chi-chi shops on Sydenham Road, we read the real mind of the Wolf

[leenewham]

Hmmm, that's some Crystal Ball you have there BBW.

Is the i-store another Opticians?

[simon]

Lee, we have had an art shop, a bicycle shop, a shoe shop and there was a decent shop selling mens fashion, all of which closed down, perhaps through a fall off in trade, unaffordable rents and a changing demographic, or a combination of the three. We have also lost a some pubs in the last few years.
Dot, of course this forum isn't representative of the general Sydenham population in any way. Some of that is down to language, some to digital exclusion (ie not being on the internet or knowing how it works) and some of it down to people not really being bothered.
What slightly annoys me is when people who post on here think that the Syndeham retail offering is actually really important; they're only shops for God's sake. The fact that I had to travel all the way to Dulwich to source my membrillo quince paste last Christmas or that I have to go all the way to the West End to buy a new pair of shoes pales into insignificance when the library is going to be closed, meals on wheels is going up by 10%+ and youths are being stabbed on the street, and other issues.
At least we still talk about those issues here.

[digime2007]

Simon, Sydenham retail is important. It's important to the businesses and the community that live here. A successful high street is good for everyone. I don't understand why some people have such animosity towards the idea of local shops and restaurants becoming successful. Especially when the alternative is probably a slow and depressing decline.

I agree the other issues you mention are important but it's not a competition. They can all be important in their own way.

[bigbadwolf]

Revealing - a bit like someone who says 'My friend has this real psychological problem ...' and it's obvious it's him. So by pretending it's Lee who wants those further chi-chi shops on Sydenham Road, we read the real mind of the Wolf.

Not so, Timworthy. Last night, the forum experienced the overwhelming creative presence of Guru Newham. And as a result, I was gripped in the impersonational, telepathically creative trance of Guru Newham, high priest of the progressive order, forcing my fingers to type the sort of heresy I would normally admonish.

Please forgive my involuntary dereliction of duty and accept, as a small token of reconcilliation, this bag-for-life. Containing a seaweed face-pack, lemongrass tea and and tofu lipstick for the wife.

[JeeBee]

I could do with a Kudu Burger - wonder if any of the fast food outlets will do one...

[mosy]

leenewham » 9 Nov 2010 18:48:

LOL, I don't think Sydenham is in danger of being overun with Franklins delis within the next 20 years at least. But it is already overun with hairdressers and various places all selling pretty much exactly the same thing.

Surely such shops survive because they sell what people want. Coming from somewhere which didn't have a high street, I was used to jumping in the car to go off to a shed for hardware etc and found it a delight that I could take ten steps down the road and buy an equivalent for the same price (or less if petrol taken into account, not to mention saving on time usage). Shops in a high street have always been varied convenience stores and I for one am grateful that we still have them as a choice. Perhaps be careful what you wish for?

[Julsb]

Actually, most of the "me too" downmarket shops don't survive. In the past year, we've seen AKSU, several hairdressers and barbers, and the anything-with-a-bit-of-Mexican restaurant places come and go with alarming frequency. Clearly, more of the same isn't actually what the market needs, but we keep getting it anyway.

I'd quite like to keep a couple of pound shops, and the Turkish shops are great. I love Wellbeing and Billings. And I can't wait for PFC to open (though I'm sure Istanbul isn't thrilled). But if anyone thinks I shouldn't be allowed to have my pan-fried guinea fowl and wine by the glass within walking distance, they'll get some short shrift from me.

[JRobinson]

will the new Greyhound development have a Waitrose?

(tonge firmly in cheek!)

I do like some of the shops on Sydenham Road/Kirkdale, but I normally find myself going to other places, just for an interesting change - Penge has Homebase at one end, so if I need anything from there, I'll go to the rest of Penge as well, the nearest Waitrose is east so I'll end up there if I need to buy something specific, and Crystal Palace has the nice nursery down the hill behind JS, so I end up there when buying plants.

apart from Billings the new wet fish shop, there isn't a 'come to me' shop in Sydenham - a reason for people outside of Sydenham to come to Sydenham Road, or for locals to stay and shop locally.

That's what I think, but I still like the high st.

[Savvy]

I'm writing a 'to do' list in the run up to Christmas and I'm going to set myself a challenge of buying as much of what I need from the high street. So, wrapping paper will come from one of the pound shops - and cards if they have them / Fish from Billings / Veg from F&F / Christmas present for vegan friend will be a selection of goodies from health food shop, etc etc. I might even use one of the independent boutiques to buy a little something for Sis and grown up Niece. It will be interesting. I've never thought of using the high street for Christmas Present Shopping before.

[angela53]

What a good idea Savvy, I now plan to do the same.

[Tim Lund]

Savvy, Angela53

For the next Sydenham Assembly meeting, I'm currently in the frame to facilitate a round table discussion about High Street vitality. If it's not too personal, it would be interesting to learn what from your shopping lists you do manage to find, and what you don't. Pm me any time

[biscuitman1978]

Some of you may be interested in this recently published BIS guide to healthy high streets:
http://www.bis.gov.uk/news/topstories/2 ... gh-streets (click through to view the guide itself)

It suggests that pound shops are not necessarily a bad thing. That should be a catalyst for some more debate on here!

And if you're really enthusiatic, see also Annex D of Planning Policy Statement 4 (PPS4):http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents ... ement4.pdf

It sets out the formal indicators used by planners in assessing town centre health, or 'vitality and viability'.

The most recent healthcheck for Sydenham (2009), which uses the indicators in PPS4, is on the Lewisham website:
http://www2.lewisham.gov.uk/lbl/documen ... ndices.pdf

[Tim Lund]

Biscuitman1978

That's very interesting. Any chance of meeting up and sharing some of your evident knowledge / expertise? I'll pm you with some possible times

[Savvy]

Christmas Shopping stage one: I went to Wellbeing and bought a basket of posh goodies for my veggie friend. Organic biscuits and Jam and chocolate and the like. I've put them in a nice bag to present to her. I'm quite pleased with myself so far.
The only problem so far is that even though I got to the high street at 5.15, by the time I got to the book shop it was closed. Do you think there would be any chance of all the shops getting together and having a 'late night opening' ... or would people scoff ? They could hand out sherry and mince pies - we could start a revolution "Buy Christmas from Your Own High Street". Tonight I will get to the bookshop in time as I'll go there first.

[Tim Lund]

Savvy:

If you can wait, this from Kirkdale Bookshop:

LATE NIGHT CHRISTMAS SHOPPING
Friday 3rd December.
We’ll be open until 9pm with mulled wine and mince pies. Lucky dip for the children – and don’t forget to pick up a copy of our Christmas Quiz. Plus a special discount on the night!

It might be nice to get some other shop keepers, cafés to stay open ...