A little light mugging.....

[SydenhamHillAndy]

I was out drinking (too much) with colleagues last night and made the mistake of coming up Well's Park Road at about 11.30pm. I was approached by a youth who was giving me hassle and who then started kicking at my feet. Trying to call the police he kicked my phone out of my hands before I managed to land a fairly solid blow on him and he ran away. So, pride slightly dented but nothing stolen thank goodness.

Just wanted people to be aware. The police reaction was that it wasn't particularly sensible to be walking up there at that time so you might want to take care or even avoid if alone late at night.

[Robin Orton]

'SydenhamHillAndy' said:

The police reaction was that it wasn't particularly sensible to be walking up there at that time

So the police are actually advising us that we can't safely walk our own streets going about our own lawful business? Has it actually come to this?

[bensonby]

The police advice is to take sensible precautions to minimise risk of becoming a victim of
crime.

Glad to hear you weren't injured and didn't
lose anything.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Thomas]

Sorry to hear that - glad you weren't injured and didn't have anything stolen.

I have to say though that I've walked up and down that road late at night plenty of times without any bother so hopefully it was just a one-off.

[kennyb]

The police advice is to take sensible precautions to minimise risk of becoming a victim of crime

How helpful is that?

ie stay indoors after 5pm?

Whatever happened to a citizens right to walk the queens highway without fear of molestation?

Really Bensonby I don't know where you are coming from in all this "legal " advice, your pompousness is often amusing but your naivety is amazing sometimes.

Surely sydenham hill andy ought to have turned himself in for assaulting said putative mugger who after all was only exercising his human rights to be a scrote.

I do not know how or what gives you the authority to dispense such nonsense as you come out with, but if you are a police oficer god help us all I can say if such attudes are current police practice, if you are a law practicioner of any ilk, god help your client is all I can say.

In my book to take sensible precautions to minimise risk in a dodgy area would be to carry a bloody big stick or a gun.
I hope andy broke the barstewards nose.

[Eagle]

I am amazed the Police said you should not walk on the Queen's Highway in the dark.
Sorry about your bad experience and I hope you really hurt the criminal.

[bigbadwolf]

Sorry to read about your little 'confrontation', Andy. Thankfully you weren't hurt; and will be a bit more vigilant when passing through that part of Sydenham in future as it is a bit rough, especially at night.

So the police are actually advising us that we can't safely walk our own streets going about our own lawful business? Has it actually come to this?

Whipping-up a bit of an unnecassary fuss here, aren't you, Robin. From what I've read, the Police haven't declared Wells Park road a no-go zone They're just telling a (vulnerable?) person to exercise a little caution whilst out-and-about after dark. Like we were all told as children by both the Police and our parents. And the Police can't be everywhere. It would be foolish to think otherwise.

My advice would be to avoid Wells Park road after dark as it's an isolated and poorly lit stretch of road with more than a small criminal reputation. But experience and common sense tells me that, not the Police.

Aside from that...

After reading about this (supposed) escalation of local crime on here over the last few weeks, and seeing as I've not got anything on this evening, I'm going to type-up an introductionary guide for newcomers to Sydenham and where they should avoid. But I'm sure seasoned residents will find it equally informative too.

[bensonby]

The police advice is to take sensible precautions to minimise risk of becoming a victim of crime

How helpful is that?

ie stay indoors after 5pm?

Whatever happened to a citizens right to walk the queens highway without fear of molestation?

Really Bensonby I don't know where you are coming from in all this "legal " advice, your pompousness is often amusing but your naivety is amazing sometimes.

Surely sydenham hill andy ought to have turned himself in for assaulting said putative mugger who after all was only exercising his human rights to be a scrote.

I do not know how or what gives you the authority to dispense such nonsense as you come out with, but if you are a police oficer god help us all I can say if such attudes are current police practice, if you are a law practicioner of any ilk, god help your client is all I can say.

In my book to take sensible precautions to minimise risk in a dodgy area would be to carry a bloody big stick or a gun.
I hope andy broke the barstewards nose.

Oh for goodness sake....

I stated that the pertinent advice is to take reasonable steps to minimise risk. What's so unreasonable about that? You lock your doors when you go out, you don't leave valuable property on display in your parked car and, indeed, you may think twise about walking in certain areas alone, at night and in drink.

We all calculate risks every day to minimise the risk and balance them with what we want to do - from crossing the road, to turning off the iron to thinking about the possiblity about falling prey to some criminal fatherless.

Of course people have the right to do all sort of things - such as walk along any road they choose - you also have a right to walk into the nastiest of crime-ridden estates bedecked in the the most expensive jewlery, carrying a £2000 laptop, state-of-the-art phone all on display. Likewise you have the right to wear a millwall football top outside a pub full of west ham fans on match day or any number of silly things: but you don't, because they would be unwise.

how, in any way, is that statement "pompous" or "naive" ?


Aside from taking issue with your rude and agressive tone in personal attacks on me I'd rather you took issue with what I say rather than question my provenance and who I am. I've never claimed on here to be anything or anyone in particular - I am not offering lebgal advice - all my posts are considered and based in quantifiable facts as far as possible. If you don't like them then criticise them objectively please rather than launching personal attacks.

[Eagle]

Used to visit Woodhouse often in 70's and 80's and walk down WPR afterwards then across the German Bridge.
To be honest never felt threatened even with a few pints of special.

It is sad that this has now become a dodgy area

[kennyb]

I Apologise if seeming aggressive, typed long reply but hit wrong key and lost the lot, shame it was a good one, I now have to rush off for an argument elsewhere
back Monday watch this space

[Robin Orton]

My concern, on the basis of 'SydenhamHillAndy's' report of what the police told him, was that they might be unnecessarily increasing the fear of crime by suggesting not just we should always be sensible and vigilant when out and about - obviously right - but that particular areas should in any case be avoided, particularly at night. If people are frightened, they won't come out, the streets will be deserted and the risks of crime will increase. I know for example how difficult it is to persuade elderly and other vulnerable people without cars to come out at night to meetings, social events etc, because of a fear that they will be attacked (even though, as I understand it, most victims of street crime are young men and most of the muggings I read about seem to have happened during daylight hours.) If the police are, even unwittingly, encouraging this, they are not, I suggest, enhancing the overall quality of life in our area.

That is not to say that there may not be areas where street crime is particularly prevalent. But, so far as I know, the police refuse to tell us officially (e.g. by publishing street-by-street statistics) where they are. All we have to go on is rumour and anecdote. If people who lived in or regularly used for example Wells Park Road knew it was a crime hot spot (if it indeed is), they could not only take sensible precautions but also help the police in identifying what the source of the problem was or apprehending the villains.

[SydenhamHillAndy]

Mrs Sydenham Hill Andy here... I agree with Robin Orton's point about, and the issue of 'nothing to fear but fear itself'. I was a little more sober than Mr SHA when he got back (he was mainly worried that he had hurt a person trying to assault him), and the police turned up 2 minutes later. They were really really lovely, but when I chided Mr SHA about walking up WP road at that time of night, they said "not just that time of night, I wouldn't walk up there any time of the day!" Mr SHA and I were slightly giggly and hysterical, and all the whole atmosphere was quite jokey...but that remark really grated then and on reflection.
I walk down Wells Park during the day all time, and while I sometimes find the groups of 'yoofs' hanging around morley's chicken/ Spar a little threatening, it's really more in my head than anything the poor hapless teens are doing. Remarks like that might put people off, and the less footfall there is on a road, the more lonely and threatening it feels - a whole downward spiral. I am more scared walking down Lower Cross Lane (path down to Sydenham Hill Station) at 3 pm than down Wells Park Road.
We need to reclaim the streets! Street party on Wells Park Road, anyone? Anyone? )

[paultreacy]

Wow! I've never had any hassle in Sydenham and I walk all over the place and at all hours and always have a camera. Maybe it's the camera that protects me. At least for now. I guess even the hapless yahoos don't want a camera upside the head.

I have been mugged however and it's a dreadful experience. I clobbered a gobshite once only then to be sprung upon by his bigger buddies who managed to materialize from thin air, seemed to me. Suddenly a knife was in my face. Had no camera on me then, many years ago.

When I punched the guy I knew I had him rattled and I actually got off quite lightly I think.

However, I have been warned. We all have. I'm glad all was okay on this occasion too. I like the reclaim the streets idea.

My natural walking pace is rather fast. Maybe that helps. And I rarely drink for fear it'll dull my senses and make me vulnerable. We should all have our wits about us when walking the streets.

Be careful out there.

[paultreacy]

For the record, I'm a bensonby fan. Terrific comeback.

Good night.

Paul Treacy

[bigbadwolf]

Don't have nightmares, do sleep well.

[CaptainCarCrash]

For the record, I'm a bensonby fan. Terrific comeback.

Good night.

Paul Treacy

I saw it as an honest response which showed a well considered post only to be let down by the miss spelling of the word twice, which kennyb failed to capitalise on with a speedy pedantic quip thus nullifying bensonby's comeback (sic).

[CaptainCarCrash]

PS To the OP well done for standing your ground, you were lucky that the wouldbe mugger wasn't carrying a knife, well done for fending him off.

[DigitalFX]

You all know my feelings on the Police, a total waste of space. Glad you hit back at the thug, maybe that will be the lesson he needs....

[Robin Orton]

Nobody has commented on my plea (which I've made before on this forum) for street-by-street crime statistics, so that we know whether e.g. Wells Park Road or the footbridge by the German Church really are high-crime areas. I see the Home Secretary has said that 'we will give the public much more information about crime in their streets, with each neighbourhood having a detailed crime map of the crimes in their area' (speech to Police Federation, 19 May) and 'we will give the public access to crime data at a level at which they can really see what is happening on their streets' (speech to Superintendents' Association, 15 September.) Does anyone know what the Met are doing about this? I can't find anything on their website, which only gives data at ward level.

[Robin Orton]

Looks like I'm the only person in SE26 interested in this. But, for my own information, I discovered on the Government's new 'transparency' website the following item in the Home Office business plan:

1.2.ii. Prepare for publication of ‘street-level’ crime data, produced every month in an open, standardised and reusable format to provide the public with detailed information about crime in their neighbourhoods. End: Jan 2011 Status: in progress.