Sydenham Walkabout (08-Oct-06)

Friendly chat, questions, reviews, find old friends or relatives. Not limited to Sydenham only issues but keep it civil!
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Falkor
Posts: 1371
Joined: 10 Feb 2006 17:45
Location: Surrey Quays

Sydenham Walkabout (08-Oct-06)

Post by Falkor »

Oops, I just sneezed; I hope I haven't caught that cold off Illuminance Steve... :shock: Great to meet all you guys at last, including T-Total Greg and Ian the Rebel! 8) I think there was about 7 of us in total... Very very honoured to have Pat and Steve from the Sydenham Society join us today--much obliged! Extremely impressed with the Newsletter; will definitely become a member myself and I recommend everyone else does the same, too! :!:

Weather-wise and walk-wise, it turned out to be an excellent day--much better than I ever imagined it would be! Where I'm running out of ideas and new places to explore, I negatively assumed there wouldn't be much to see... How wrong I was! Pat and Steve did a great job of pointing out bits and pieces I was previously unaware of, including historical Wells Park and the air vent for Sydenham Hill/Penge East underground railway tunnel; I think this is the one that's currently in use and runs underneath Charleville Circus among other places--shown as contour lines on certain maps--included in an old photo from the Crystal Palace High Level loop book. A special thanks to RebelMC for showing us the back garden of that amazing house I photographed on the previous walkabout (house is divided into two; Ian lives one side), which neither of us had ever had the opportunity to explore before. This house--built around the 1840s--could potentially be the oldest surviving house along Sydenham Hill? :o

Anyway, I hope everyone enjoyed themselves and had a great day; we should all do it again sometime! Unfortunately, as Pat pointed out, it gets dark very early now. For a more lengthier walkabout, I think we need to choose a convenient weekend, and start much earlier than 4pm. I might come along to some of those Sydenham Society Walkabouts--advertised in the Newsletter--provided I'm welcome of course; will try to get the membership form back to Pat before then. Most Saturdays and Sundays I'm down at the Crystal Palace Museum, and I know Greg and Juwlz are fairly new to Sydenham, so if you guys would like to check out more places then feel free to join me any weekend you like. I always purposely walk home through Sydenham--can't beat a trip down memory lane--before jumping on a bus for the rest of the journey. Still need to show you the back of the old people's home (St. Clements) with the wonderful views of Kent and Surrey in front of what could be the steepest drop around Sydenham Heights; this is where I would like to spend my retirement! :)

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First stop was the Headless Nympth, again! This time with some photos taken! :twisted:

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I wish I was as cool as Greg! 8) 8) 8) Juwlz joined the party upon re-surfacing...

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Rebelmc's house, including the Sundial and victorian style lounge of his next door neighbour. Click the Sundial and stone inscriptions for larger quality photos! :idea:

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Tunnel mouth at High Level Drive end.

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Aforementioned air vent.

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WOW, PANIC!!!!! Highlight of my day!!!!!!!!!! :shock: :o :shock: :o I felt like a little kid again... :D First time I've ever paid any attention to graffiti before... It seems people were there in 1991 and 1999! I'm going there with a torch first thing in the morning to sign my name: Falkor woz 'ere 2006; you get me though...? :lol:

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Hidden drains in Wells Park. Shhhh... don't tell anyone! :o

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Source of the lower stream.

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End of the stream. Pat and Steve parted here.

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Oldish houses one side of Upper Kirkdale; would love to get an idea when these were built--especially the one painted green around the window frames--indicates an old person's home as Juwlz pointed out.

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Ashtree Cottage by night, Mount Gardens (oldest pair along that stretch; back to back). Ian and the other Steve parted here.

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House at the top of Panmure Road. Looking at old historical maps, there was once a tennis court at the bottom (site now occupied by lock-up garages) with no houses in-between; these were possibly built on the garden of this massive "Penge Police Station looking house" with distinctive railings reminiscent of a demolished terrace of houses not far away at the top of the Springfield Rise; I'm convinced they were designed/built at the same time and by the same architect.

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Look where we ended the day! This was my very first time visiting The Greyhound, Sydenham's oldest Inn, and my experience could not have been better! I met my long lost friend, whom I had not seen for over 12 years!! Shane is working part time at the bar, we had a good chat, and exchanged contact details. His colleague was kind enough to let us through the staff areas to see the original tiled entrance at the rear!! How's that for hospitality? I think I might become a regular here... I mean, it was my turn to buy the round of drinks as Juwlz paid last time :oops:, but I borrowed £5 from the fruit machine! :P What a great way to end a great day.

Well folks, I hope you enjoyed that shoot! Greg should be contributing his photos in due course... :arrow:
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Last edited by Falkor on 9 Oct 2006 19:30, edited 1 time in total.
The Eagle
Posts: 314
Joined: 18 Feb 2006 06:19
Location: Sydenham

Post by The Eagle »

Thank you
Greg Whitehead
Posts: 474
Joined: 11 Apr 2005 15:44
Location: SE26 5RL

Post by Greg Whitehead »

I'm about to post mine now Falkor. Before I do could I have some feedback on whether the pictures should be posted here or on Flickr? For user experience I'd suggest Flickr but human nature may mean people may not click a link.

Getting to see the Minton tiles at end of the walk did indeed cap it all off. It's amazing what can happen when you lean over the bar and say in a broad-ish Scottish accent "I was just admiring your tiles, they're Minton tiles, aren't they, haven't seen any as nice as those in a wee while!" :oops:

Thanks to Al for letting us in to see them. Apart from the light pendant all seemed to be original and in pretty good nick (from what I could tell in the flashlight).

http://www.sydenhamsociety.com/Greyhound.html
Last edited by Greg Whitehead on 9 Oct 2006 15:45, edited 3 times in total.
goonerchamp
Posts: 167
Joined: 28 Jun 2005 12:18
Location: Sydenham, Sydenham where the f**k is Sydenham

Post by goonerchamp »

Is that Shane that has dabbled in bit part roles in "THE BILL" and "HOLBY CITY"?

I've seen the pictures you've put on flickr - they for me are better as you can download and zoom them in to a pretty large size.

but im only one person - majority rules I guess!
Pat Trembath
Posts: 613
Joined: 2 Oct 2004 10:54

Post by Pat Trembath »

About 12 years ago, before the Greyhound's last major refurbishment, members of the Sydsenham Society, Steve and myself included, met with a representative of Lewisham Council and someone from English Heritage in the Greyhound's tiled bar to see if we could get a "listing" on what we considered to be an imortant part of Sydenham's heritage.

Unfortunately the ruling was against listing as a number of the tiles were damaged. On refurbishment the Brewery preserved the bar in a locked time capsule - which you were privileged to get unlocked, yesterday evening.

About 2 years ago Steve and I had another look at the "time capsule" when it was unlocked for us, and we were very disappointed to see how small this area had become. If you compare the photo taken yesterday evening with the one on the link to Sydenham Society's article written by Steve Grindlay I think you can see how much of the original has been lost.
Pat Trembath
Posts: 613
Joined: 2 Oct 2004 10:54

Post by Pat Trembath »

Just one other thing - I think you will find that these are Minton tiles, Greg!
Greg Whitehead
Posts: 474
Joined: 11 Apr 2005 15:44
Location: SE26 5RL

Post by Greg Whitehead »

Edited to correct spelling, thanks Pat.
Greg Whitehead
Posts: 474
Joined: 11 Apr 2005 15:44
Location: SE26 5RL

Post by Greg Whitehead »

I've just been thinking about your lament regarding the 'time capsule' Pat and I'm not sure I agree. Whilst I clearly cannot speak for the depth/length of the original area I think you'll find that in terms of width and height the area remains very much in the same state of repair as in the SydSoc photo. Perhaps it's just that Falkor's pictures don't do it justice but I'd argue that the state of the entrance now is identical to the picture on the SydSoc society site (a few cracked tiles aside). The mosaic floor remains, the skylight and the wall tiles are all still there. In fact aside from the nasty chandelier there currently if I stood in the same spot as the photographer in 'Steve's' picture I'd hazard I'd get the same picture - the stud walls erected at each end are really quite flimsy and simply cover detail.

Feel free to view the pictures on my thread regarding the day and point out anything different - you'll have a job I'd wager.

Unless the room went 30 feet further back I assure you it's all there (two light fittings aside). I was equally heartened by the fact that the room is not used other than to store the original parts of the bar and one piece of old carpet - it doesn't even have a light in the room. Given the state of the rest of the bar (decor wise) the fact they're just leaving the room well alone was a relief and something of a mercy.
Last edited by Greg Whitehead on 10 Oct 2006 07:59, edited 2 times in total.
Steve Grindlay
Posts: 606
Joined: 4 Oct 2004 05:07
Location: Upper Sydenham

Post by Steve Grindlay »

I hope you are right, Greg, but my impression was the same as Pat's - the tiled area definitely seemed smaller than when I first saw it. It was then possible to enter from the Spring Hill entrance and pass straight through, past the reception desk, into the main bar. At the least the area has been reduced at each end by erecting partitions and we must hope that what lies beyond these partitions has survived.

I have uploaded another picture (scanned, like the others, from a slide, so not of the best quality) of the tiles here. Also, taking my lead from Falkor's disregard for copyright law, I have uploaded a couple of other pictures of the pub
Falkor
Posts: 1371
Joined: 10 Feb 2006 17:45
Location: Surrey Quays

Post by Falkor »

Also, taking my lead from Falkor's disregard for copyright law, I have uploaded a couple of other pictures of the pub
Hehe, thanks Steve! You've been contributing some really great photos over the past few weeks. At other forums I've visited over the years, there's always been a real lack of image posting to help express what people are describing in different fields of interest; people are either too low level, impractical or just like to "hold back" and not share any information. For example, you even get some lurkers who are just hovering around, but never actually post.

Regarding copyright, I do respect the law to some extent--especially images that are commercially available--just not when it comes to photos of old slums that are about to be demolished! :D Copyright is something that's created out of thin air! It gets worse... If I take a photo of a photo then, apparently, I now own the copyright!? How long does copyright last for? 100 years? It's all superficial nonsense this "publishing on the internet" lark... I'm sorry, but I've lost a lot of faith in the government after what happened on 9/11... :wink: We live in a very strange world indeed. :D If somebody wants to sue me for sharing photos of demolished house--for example-- then that is just petty in my view. It's not like I'm using LCC's photos to earn a little wager or something. Anyway, using LCC as the example, I don't think they mind non-commercial usage of their materials, as long as they are credited. At the end of the day, it's all for a good use--education and sharing knowledge about the history of Sydenham. If I was to start sharing unpublished secret plans about a new landmark being built in Bell Green then that would be taking the Mickey... Hey, check this out BTW...
Link removed

Thanks again for sharing those wonderful images, Steve! It really does make a change when I'm not the only one doing it... Much appreciated!
Last edited by Falkor on 9 Oct 2006 21:24, edited 1 time in total.
Steve Grindlay
Posts: 606
Joined: 4 Oct 2004 05:07
Location: Upper Sydenham

Post by Steve Grindlay »

On the walk I mentioned to rebelmc that there was a picture of the back of The Wood. The original is in the Devonshire Collection at Chatsworth, which confirms the close link of the Duke of Devonshire with this house. I've uploaded it here
Greg Whitehead
Posts: 474
Joined: 11 Apr 2005 15:44
Location: SE26 5RL

Post by Greg Whitehead »

I don't know about you (Falkor and Julwz) but judging by the picture Steve's uploaded of the reception desk it's pretty much all there?

Hop on over to Town Cafe to get at my pictures to see what you think.

Steve, if you could do the same - there's a few questions/posers there for you, if you'd be so kind

(me, me, me :roll: )
Falkor
Posts: 1371
Joined: 10 Feb 2006 17:45
Location: Surrey Quays

Post by Falkor »

On the walk I mentioned to rebelmc that there was a picture of the back of The Wood. The original is in the Devonshire Collection at Chatsworth, which confirms the close link of the Duke of Devonshire with this house. I've uploaded it here
That is superb!!!!! What a nice touch to an already informative topic... Not sure if RebelMC has seen this one yet? That would make my day if that was my house...
Steve Grindlay
Posts: 606
Joined: 4 Oct 2004 05:07
Location: Upper Sydenham

Post by Steve Grindlay »

Falkor said:
Hey, check this out BTW...
Shhhh ... I'm hoping to bid for it!
Falkor
Posts: 1371
Joined: 10 Feb 2006 17:45
Location: Surrey Quays

Post by Falkor »

No worries, Steve... I've removed the link... I shan't be contesting on this occasion... I only collect photos of Upper Sydenham and the Crystal Palace fountains...
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