Any info available anywhere on progress, or lack thereof, on the Greyhound Pub development?
Also, what's going on with the Crystal Palace Park improvements? I was under the impression that £67m was approved for these. Anyone know? There is little sign as yet of any work having started.
I was very excited but feel that I should prepare for disappointment.
Greyhound and CPP improvements?
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paultreacy
- Posts: 487
- Joined: 10 Jun 2008 17:40
- Location: Lawrie Park Road
The last I had heard, The Greyhound's planning application was still being considered by Lewisham. The importance of the application means Lewisham are taking their time. I guess something should happen next month.
The London Developments Ageny's "Masterplan Plannining Application" was approved by Bromley in December 2008. But as this approval involved Bromley allowing something that went against 'planning regulations' (eg housing on the park), these issues had to be considered at a Public Inquiry in 2009.
The decision has now to be approved by the Secretary of State, and because of the upcoming election this approval, or rejection, will probably be made after the Election sometime in August(?).
But the London Development Agency who put in the application have now said they wont be taking over the park, or providing any money for the works. They have effectively pulled out.
So Bromley must decide if they wish to use an approved application to carry out works to the park. I don't think anyone expects Bromley to spend tens of millions on the park, especially when Councils will have to make cut backs over the next few years. The only money available would be the money from the sale of land, and maybe lottery grants.
Bromley would also have the problem that improving the park will leave them with an increased maintenance bill, at a time they will be looking for cut backs.
The London Developments Ageny's "Masterplan Plannining Application" was approved by Bromley in December 2008. But as this approval involved Bromley allowing something that went against 'planning regulations' (eg housing on the park), these issues had to be considered at a Public Inquiry in 2009.
The decision has now to be approved by the Secretary of State, and because of the upcoming election this approval, or rejection, will probably be made after the Election sometime in August(?).
But the London Development Agency who put in the application have now said they wont be taking over the park, or providing any money for the works. They have effectively pulled out.
So Bromley must decide if they wish to use an approved application to carry out works to the park. I don't think anyone expects Bromley to spend tens of millions on the park, especially when Councils will have to make cut backs over the next few years. The only money available would be the money from the sale of land, and maybe lottery grants.
Bromley would also have the problem that improving the park will leave them with an increased maintenance bill, at a time they will be looking for cut backs.
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paultreacy
- Posts: 487
- Joined: 10 Jun 2008 17:40
- Location: Lawrie Park Road
So it'll unlikely happen. Pathetic. Bromley ought to be ashamed of themselves. The top of the park is an amazing place and it ought to be preserved. Somebody must be able to do something.
I'm going to film the park extensively throughout 2010 and I will make my footage available to anyone who thinks they can use it to make a case for fixing it up. Those steps, sphinxes, balustrades. The whole thing. They way things are going, it'll be a no go area soon. And that's a huge shame. Is it not?
Paul Treacy
http://sydenhamshots.co.uk
http://paultreacy.com
http://photohumourist.com
I'm going to film the park extensively throughout 2010 and I will make my footage available to anyone who thinks they can use it to make a case for fixing it up. Those steps, sphinxes, balustrades. The whole thing. They way things are going, it'll be a no go area soon. And that's a huge shame. Is it not?
Paul Treacy
http://sydenhamshots.co.uk
http://paultreacy.com
http://photohumourist.com
I know, Bromley council seem prepared to spends lots of money on parks like Kelsey park in Bekenham, which is pretty vast and has stunning planting, a very well-stocked play area and a large new cafe being built.
I wonder why there seems to be money for Kelsey but not Crystal Palace?
Could it be perhaps because Beckenham is 'posh',with loaded residents who have the time and money to put pressure on the council, also I wonder if lots of councillors live there.
And maybe poor old Penge doesn't have these advantages.
I wonder why there seems to be money for Kelsey but not Crystal Palace?
Could it be perhaps because Beckenham is 'posh',with loaded residents who have the time and money to put pressure on the council, also I wonder if lots of councillors live there.
And maybe poor old Penge doesn't have these advantages.
I'm with Eagle here poppy.
I have a friend who lives on Manor Way and you are correct to state that more effort and resource would appear to be expended on Kelsey Park than CPP. My friend states that the reasons (in his opinion) are:
1) Kelsey Park is the 'showcase' park for Beckenham. Their main one. After all, the river Beck pools here and it would be a sad day if the river that gives the area it's name pooled into a boggy marsh...type thing
2) Bromley really had CPP foisted upon them. It's at the extreme of their borders and was already in a fairly poor state when the GLC handed over to LB Bromley. Plus as Eagle says CPP has it's main border/user base with Sydders yet we pay no poll tax for it's upkeep...
I have wondered at various times whether or not CPP should come under the bosom of LB Lewisham. There aren't too many areas that LB Lewisham bests Bromley but I think it does in terms of it's municipal parks...aren't we second in terms of Green Flags or something?
Just my opinion.
I have a friend who lives on Manor Way and you are correct to state that more effort and resource would appear to be expended on Kelsey Park than CPP. My friend states that the reasons (in his opinion) are:
1) Kelsey Park is the 'showcase' park for Beckenham. Their main one. After all, the river Beck pools here and it would be a sad day if the river that gives the area it's name pooled into a boggy marsh...type thing
2) Bromley really had CPP foisted upon them. It's at the extreme of their borders and was already in a fairly poor state when the GLC handed over to LB Bromley. Plus as Eagle says CPP has it's main border/user base with Sydders yet we pay no poll tax for it's upkeep...
I have wondered at various times whether or not CPP should come under the bosom of LB Lewisham. There aren't too many areas that LB Lewisham bests Bromley but I think it does in terms of it's municipal parks...aren't we second in terms of Green Flags or something?
Just my opinion.
I can't imagine Lewisham would want it though - as everyone has said, it needs a tonne of investment, not just immediate capital but long-term maintainance - it's a financial albatross.
It's a general problem with the Crystal Palace area as a whole that it sits on the boundary of a number of borough councils, none of whom perceive it as 'their problem'.
It's a great shame that LDA have dropped it - it was probably the one chance for actually making some progress.
I can't help thinking if there hadn't been so much hostility to the housing idea in the first place, we may have made more progress with the LDA at the helm. Clearly in the current financial climate there is going to be approximately zero chance of improvements that are not at least in part self-funding.
It's a general problem with the Crystal Palace area as a whole that it sits on the boundary of a number of borough councils, none of whom perceive it as 'their problem'.
It's a great shame that LDA have dropped it - it was probably the one chance for actually making some progress.
I can't help thinking if there hadn't been so much hostility to the housing idea in the first place, we may have made more progress with the LDA at the helm. Clearly in the current financial climate there is going to be approximately zero chance of improvements that are not at least in part self-funding.
I fear you are correct Weeble. What ought to be a real jewel in the crown of any LB is now something of a poisoned chalice. Too many years of neglect and decay.
I think you'd also get a few Lambeth and Southwark residents using the park too? So why should one LB stump up the cash. Perhaps the way forward is a collaborative effort, all 4 LBs within the immediate vicinity jointly fund the short and long-term requirements? I can see those pigs past my window also...
My opinion about LB Lewisham is just that I think our council is excellent with it's parks. That might be undue credit but it is one I give it nonetheless.
I think you'd also get a few Lambeth and Southwark residents using the park too? So why should one LB stump up the cash. Perhaps the way forward is a collaborative effort, all 4 LBs within the immediate vicinity jointly fund the short and long-term requirements? I can see those pigs past my window also...
My opinion about LB Lewisham is just that I think our council is excellent with it's parks. That might be undue credit but it is one I give it nonetheless.
The location on the borders of Bromley borough did occur to me after I posted but isn't Anerley, LB Bromley and Penge certainly is.
I still don't think it's a coincidence that it has been neglected because it is in a 'poorer' part of the borough.
But you are right if Lewisham, and is it Croydon that covers CP and Norwood (?) had to all contribute to a fund it might help.
Maybe the London Assembly should be involved in parks like this which are on the borders of boroughs? Like the GLC seems to have been in the past.
Are the terraces listed? Are English Heritage involved?
The revamped maze is lovely, by the way. Definately worth a visit....
I still don't think it's a coincidence that it has been neglected because it is in a 'poorer' part of the borough.
But you are right if Lewisham, and is it Croydon that covers CP and Norwood (?) had to all contribute to a fund it might help.
Maybe the London Assembly should be involved in parks like this which are on the borders of boroughs? Like the GLC seems to have been in the past.
Are the terraces listed? Are English Heritage involved?
The revamped maze is lovely, by the way. Definately worth a visit....
i hope the descision gets approved.
i believe one options was the creation of Trust, separate from the LDA who would decide park policy and oversee a management team to run the park.
Some areas of the park are listed by english heritage like the terraces i am sure bromley is not allowed to let them fall disrepair
At the end of the day if it means we will need housing on a small section of the park to pay for park improvements then so be it.
i am all for something positive happening in the area
i believe one options was the creation of Trust, separate from the LDA who would decide park policy and oversee a management team to run the park.
Some areas of the park are listed by english heritage like the terraces i am sure bromley is not allowed to let them fall disrepair
At the end of the day if it means we will need housing on a small section of the park to pay for park improvements then so be it.
i am all for something positive happening in the area
Poppy:
You ask if it is listed - it is. Here's a web site that you and anyone else might want to bookmark
http://lbonline.english-heritage.org.uk/SearchForm.aspx
In particular, the grade 1
http://lbonline.english-heritage.org.uk ... 9&search=y
If you search for Crystal Palace, you'll find the terraces, the station, the sports centre and a bust of Paxton are also listed.
You ask if it is listed - it is. Here's a web site that you and anyone else might want to bookmark
http://lbonline.english-heritage.org.uk/SearchForm.aspx
In particular, the grade 1
http://lbonline.english-heritage.org.uk ... 9&search=y
If you search for Crystal Palace, you'll find the terraces, the station, the sports centre and a bust of Paxton are also listed.
I agree. Wasn't the building supposed to be in the caravan park anyway which isn't exactly prime parkland?
Having been to some of the meetings on the park, I was shocked at the sheer arrogance and aggression of some of the 'Crystal Palace Mafia' rattling their zimmer frames in anger at the poor bloke from the LDA. As long as they are around I don't think anything will happen in the park and it will continue to fall into decay. It's a shame as it's an incredible piece of world history. Everytime I got there I feel both joy and sadness.
Having been to some of the meetings on the park, I was shocked at the sheer arrogance and aggression of some of the 'Crystal Palace Mafia' rattling their zimmer frames in anger at the poor bloke from the LDA. As long as they are around I don't think anything will happen in the park and it will continue to fall into decay. It's a shame as it's an incredible piece of world history. Everytime I got there I feel both joy and sadness.
I don't really have enough experience to know whether they're good or bad. On the one hand you've got something like Well's park, which I think is a fantastic little park which is very well maintained.Ulysses wrote:My opinion about LB Lewisham is just that I think our council is excellent with it's parks. That might be undue credit but it is one I give it nonetheless.
Whereas Mayow Park always seems to be in need of a bit of serious TLC.
I can't say I know any others in the rest of the Borough to comment.
You may be right Weeble. It's just my own personal opinion formed, primarily, from the fact that a year or two back LB Lewisham had 7/8 Green Flags and this put us just behind [bizarrely enough] Haringey as the borough with the most.
Of course Green Flags may matter not a jot but each LB seems keen to collect them. Eagle cites Beckenham Place Park as another blot on LB Lewisham's copy book...but it's just my over-riding impression that they are good in this regard.
It seems many are keen to batter Lewisham council over the head with any and all kinds of sticks, and on this forum, so I thought I'd give them some credit for once. I hope it isn't unwarranted.
Edit: I thought it worthwhile to point out I have been to most of the other parks in the borough and most seem to be well maintained, bar a few obvious examples. Although Mayow Park, partly through FOMP's efforts, seems to really be on the up!
Of course Green Flags may matter not a jot but each LB seems keen to collect them. Eagle cites Beckenham Place Park as another blot on LB Lewisham's copy book...but it's just my over-riding impression that they are good in this regard.
It seems many are keen to batter Lewisham council over the head with any and all kinds of sticks, and on this forum, so I thought I'd give them some credit for once. I hope it isn't unwarranted.
Edit: I thought it worthwhile to point out I have been to most of the other parks in the borough and most seem to be well maintained, bar a few obvious examples. Although Mayow Park, partly through FOMP's efforts, seems to really be on the up!