I saw a sign outside it earlier today, saying "under new management".
Use it or lose it chaps.
(PS I saw it while DRIVING to SAINSBURYS, and didn't stop)
*awaits abuse*
Has the butcher near the library reopened?
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Fatbackfour
- Posts: 97
- Joined: 13 Nov 2009 18:48
- Location: sydenham
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Heritage Angle
- Posts: 25
- Joined: 28 Sep 2009 20:29
- Location: SE26
Has the butchers by the library reopended?
Yeah, I made a comment on here a week or so ago about them being a tad on the unfirendly side. Wondered if it was just me. Not really unfriendly, just dont appear to be exactly orgasmic at the prospect of more business walking in the door. Then I go there Saturday (14th) to find they've gone! Sensitive or what. No really its a bloody crime. Bet the landlords a ........!
I'll go to Nunhead now as theres two English butchers there. Pain to get to mind. Unless anyone knows of nearer? And I aint using the bloody halaal place. Actually theres one in Anerley I passed, Marston Rd.
I'll go to Nunhead now as theres two English butchers there. Pain to get to mind. Unless anyone knows of nearer? And I aint using the bloody halaal place. Actually theres one in Anerley I passed, Marston Rd.
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Fatbackfour
- Posts: 97
- Joined: 13 Nov 2009 18:48
- Location: sydenham
I've been in touch with Mr Sargeant - the butcher formerly at 341 Sydenham Road - or rather his father. They are still selling at places such as farmers' markets across London, and are hoping to open some permanent premises in Dulwich. I find it hard to imagine that they'll be paying less rent there - and it's incredibly frustrating that they haven't found or looked for somewhere else in Sydenham.
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Fatbackfour
- Posts: 97
- Joined: 13 Nov 2009 18:48
- Location: sydenham
I'm speachless, is there any hope for businesses starting up in Sydenham ,I think the average life expectancy for a new retail business in Sydenham seams to be about 3 months. Either we dont support them or landlords strangle them..either a reasonable rent ongoing or an unreasonable rent for three months then nothing
341? That's Bell Green, isn't it?
So presumably Sargeant's would have been near to or in exactly the same premises as the other butcher who keeps on failing. Not sure I'd blame anyone for having a tainted view of Sydenham if their only experience is trading on that stretch of road where the only chance of any footfall is those en route to the GP polyclinic or the sexual health clinic. Hardly South Molton St...is it?
No offense to anyone who lives there but it's fairly traffic dominated and as we've seen by the 'Home Park butchers' thread not exactly where someone would 'happen' upon a business.
Right product, wrong presentation and part of town. If Sargeant's is one and the same as the most recent tenants we were discussing they'll need to seriously up their game. I cannot imagine anyone in their right mind choosing them over William Rose, especially based on the state of disrepair they keep their premises in.
So presumably Sargeant's would have been near to or in exactly the same premises as the other butcher who keeps on failing. Not sure I'd blame anyone for having a tainted view of Sydenham if their only experience is trading on that stretch of road where the only chance of any footfall is those en route to the GP polyclinic or the sexual health clinic. Hardly South Molton St...is it?
No offense to anyone who lives there but it's fairly traffic dominated and as we've seen by the 'Home Park butchers' thread not exactly where someone would 'happen' upon a business.
Right product, wrong presentation and part of town. If Sargeant's is one and the same as the most recent tenants we were discussing they'll need to seriously up their game. I cannot imagine anyone in their right mind choosing them over William Rose, especially based on the state of disrepair they keep their premises in.
They should make it looks like this:
This was the Butchers my parents used when I was down in Devon. It wasn't expensive either, the prices were similar to the supermarkets, if not cheaper.
A shop front is the packaging of your business. It makes a MASSIVE difference ESPECIALLY when you are selling food.
If they go to Dulwich and look as bad as they did near Home Park they will fail there too. I REALLY hope this butcher comes back to Sydenham.
This was the Butchers my parents used when I was down in Devon. It wasn't expensive either, the prices were similar to the supermarkets, if not cheaper.
A shop front is the packaging of your business. It makes a MASSIVE difference ESPECIALLY when you are selling food.
If they go to Dulwich and look as bad as they did near Home Park they will fail there too. I REALLY hope this butcher comes back to Sydenham.
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bladerunner
- Posts: 11
- Joined: 21 Jul 2008 18:28
- Location: Sydenham
Lee - if they open a butchers shop in East Dulwich which looks exactly like the one they've just left in Lower Sydenham it will be highly successful.
Your belief - that the aesthetic look of a place is THE essential ingredient to success is, frankly, total nonsense.
You surely cannot seriously believe that, if only the butcher in Lower Sydenham had followed the guidance of one of your "What Ifs" they'd still be trading successfully in Lower Sydenham do you?
A whole number of factors are at work in the decision of this butcher to leave lower Sydenham - the look of their shop simply isn't an important one.
Your belief - that the aesthetic look of a place is THE essential ingredient to success is, frankly, total nonsense.
You surely cannot seriously believe that, if only the butcher in Lower Sydenham had followed the guidance of one of your "What Ifs" they'd still be trading successfully in Lower Sydenham do you?
A whole number of factors are at work in the decision of this butcher to leave lower Sydenham - the look of their shop simply isn't an important one.
Barry, how a place looks is not EVERYTHING. I never say that.
However to say that it is not important is wrong. People DO judge a book by it's cover, but the book as to be good too. The cover simply gets people to pick it up. If you can't get people through the door of your business to try it, you are missing out.
So sorry, I disagree with you.
We do these what if's because we (me and my wife) are designers. It's what we are good at. I'm not someone who organizes campaigns like some members of the sydsoc, it's not my strong point.
You have done much for Sydenham with lobbying etc and I think many on these forums are grateful to you, you have made a difference. Certainly many people I have spoken to are in awe of lots of what you and other sydsoc members have achieved.
Your last post though isn't particularly constructive. Isn't it better to stick to trying to improve Sydenham?
However to say that it is not important is wrong. People DO judge a book by it's cover, but the book as to be good too. The cover simply gets people to pick it up. If you can't get people through the door of your business to try it, you are missing out.
So sorry, I disagree with you.
We do these what if's because we (me and my wife) are designers. It's what we are good at. I'm not someone who organizes campaigns like some members of the sydsoc, it's not my strong point.
You have done much for Sydenham with lobbying etc and I think many on these forums are grateful to you, you have made a difference. Certainly many people I have spoken to are in awe of lots of what you and other sydsoc members have achieved.
Your last post though isn't particularly constructive. Isn't it better to stick to trying to improve Sydenham?
just to clarify, the butchers Sargents/HomePark/341/the shop with no name, are one and the same.
I think they will have to relocate further up the Sydenham Road to be successful, as that part of Sydenham Road (near the Savacentre) simply doesn't have the footfall.
Perhaps if they had the old supermarket (next to The Two Halfs), i think they could be really successful
I think they will have to relocate further up the Sydenham Road to be successful, as that part of Sydenham Road (near the Savacentre) simply doesn't have the footfall.
Perhaps if they had the old supermarket (next to The Two Halfs), i think they could be really successful
Lee - I did not intend in any way to upset you. I know that both you and I are very committed to changing Sydenham.
I just wanted to find out from you what importance you attach to the look of a place in relation to other factors.
Surely the reason that the butcher in Lower Sydenham has to decided to leave is because of poor footfall in the area, comparatively low income of people in LS, proximity to Savacentre, rents etc.
Surely, you don't believe that the butcher would still be trading if the outside of his shop was different do you? Or that a butcher completely identical in looks to the one in lower Sydenham would not be highly successful in the core shopping area of Sydenham Road or East Dulwich?
After all, Mr Boston the butcher traded successfully just 800m away until he decided to retire. His shop was no better in terms of looks than the one in lower Sydenham - and even 50% of staff (Mr Boston's brother) were the same. Both shops were run in exactly the same way.
Surely aesthetics is comparatively unimportant in relation to factors such as what the shop is selling, prices, value, local income, position, competence of management, buying expertise etc.
Don't get me wrong - I don't believe for a minute that an attractive looking premises isn't something I'd like every shop locally to have. Just that it may be a comparatively unimportant issue in relation to success in running the majority of local shops in the current state of SE26.
I am not being antagonistic towards you. I genuinely want to know how you feel about the above. If what you say is true shouldn't we all be drawing up "What Ifs" as means of improving our locality rather than spending time on other issues?
I just wanted to find out from you what importance you attach to the look of a place in relation to other factors.
Surely the reason that the butcher in Lower Sydenham has to decided to leave is because of poor footfall in the area, comparatively low income of people in LS, proximity to Savacentre, rents etc.
Surely, you don't believe that the butcher would still be trading if the outside of his shop was different do you? Or that a butcher completely identical in looks to the one in lower Sydenham would not be highly successful in the core shopping area of Sydenham Road or East Dulwich?
After all, Mr Boston the butcher traded successfully just 800m away until he decided to retire. His shop was no better in terms of looks than the one in lower Sydenham - and even 50% of staff (Mr Boston's brother) were the same. Both shops were run in exactly the same way.
Surely aesthetics is comparatively unimportant in relation to factors such as what the shop is selling, prices, value, local income, position, competence of management, buying expertise etc.
Don't get me wrong - I don't believe for a minute that an attractive looking premises isn't something I'd like every shop locally to have. Just that it may be a comparatively unimportant issue in relation to success in running the majority of local shops in the current state of SE26.
I am not being antagonistic towards you. I genuinely want to know how you feel about the above. If what you say is true shouldn't we all be drawing up "What Ifs" as means of improving our locality rather than spending time on other issues?
Don't worry, you are still on my Christmas card list. 
OK, as you ask this is what I think.
I will always choose product, service and price over a nice shop front.
Like most people.
However, how a business presents itself can make a difference between someone going through the front door or not. If you don't get people through the front door they wont know about the above.
That was one factor why neither me, some friends here in Sydenham and my wife never went to the butchers despite the fact that it is 2 minutes walk from my front door. I agree with you that it is in the wrong part of Sydenham for the majority, but it seems as if the news article posted a few posts above had something to do with their demise.
I don't have experience in running a shop or restaurant. I have experience in design and branding. So naturally my posts will probably be something to do with that. All I am doing is saying 'what if'. If you think this is better, and other agree, then by all means do it.
As for my views on the current state of se26, they are similar to yours. I know you agree that the Sydenham Road improvements are good. I do too.
However the shop fronts and signs are the most visible thing when traveling up and down the road. Lewisham Council seem to think this is an important factor as they went to the lengths (and expense) of creating guidelines for shops in Lewisham. And they are good. The more shops smarten up their act, the better the whole road looks, the more we can capitalize on the road improvements and the extra train passengers.
Do I think everyone should be drawing up what if's? No, that's just daft isn't it (but if anyone wants to, please do so!).
There are lots of other problems that need solving which (as I have already said) members of the sydsoc and others are really good at.
OK, as you ask this is what I think.
I will always choose product, service and price over a nice shop front.
Like most people.
However, how a business presents itself can make a difference between someone going through the front door or not. If you don't get people through the front door they wont know about the above.
That was one factor why neither me, some friends here in Sydenham and my wife never went to the butchers despite the fact that it is 2 minutes walk from my front door. I agree with you that it is in the wrong part of Sydenham for the majority, but it seems as if the news article posted a few posts above had something to do with their demise.
I don't have experience in running a shop or restaurant. I have experience in design and branding. So naturally my posts will probably be something to do with that. All I am doing is saying 'what if'. If you think this is better, and other agree, then by all means do it.
As for my views on the current state of se26, they are similar to yours. I know you agree that the Sydenham Road improvements are good. I do too.
However the shop fronts and signs are the most visible thing when traveling up and down the road. Lewisham Council seem to think this is an important factor as they went to the lengths (and expense) of creating guidelines for shops in Lewisham. And they are good. The more shops smarten up their act, the better the whole road looks, the more we can capitalize on the road improvements and the extra train passengers.
Do I think everyone should be drawing up what if's? No, that's just daft isn't it (but if anyone wants to, please do so!).
There are lots of other problems that need solving which (as I have already said) members of the sydsoc and others are really good at.
Good grief - and this is/was our local butcher?bladerunner wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... armer.html
Should have been banned for life.
I was feeling vaguely guilty about not having supported a local business, but I'm not now!
I must admit Weeble I missed that link completely.
I too am now not bothered about not supporting Sargeant's.
I have to say given how utterly pathetic this firm is at advertising itself and how poor they seem to care for the maintenance of their shop I cannot see them troubling any butchers in Lesser Dulwich...or anywhere else for that matter.
And there was me feeling guilty thinking that I had not frequented an organic butchers in the (fairly) local vicinity.
I too am now not bothered about not supporting Sargeant's.
I have to say given how utterly pathetic this firm is at advertising itself and how poor they seem to care for the maintenance of their shop I cannot see them troubling any butchers in Lesser Dulwich...or anywhere else for that matter.
And there was me feeling guilty thinking that I had not frequented an organic butchers in the (fairly) local vicinity.
I too was horrified by the Daily Mail article, but it seems (after a little research on line) that Craig Sargent made a successful appeal against his conviction, and at a hearing held at Maidstone Crown Court, Judge Jeremy Carey accepted evidence from Sargent's barrister (Jonathan Rich) and agreed that the RSPCA had been unable to produce any evidence of cruelty.
I'm not defending him in any way, I don't know him and never used his shop, and clearly things were far from satisfactory on his farm for the case to be brought in the first place, but it does appear he may have at least cleared his name.
I'm not defending him in any way, I don't know him and never used his shop, and clearly things were far from satisfactory on his farm for the case to be brought in the first place, but it does appear he may have at least cleared his name.
Ah, well researched Maestro. I've just had a quick google myself and found that the BBC did an investigation into RSPCA prosecutions and used this case as an example of the RSPCA being perhaps overzealous in their approach.
Click on the link at the bottom of this page to view the documentary - the first 5 mins or so is about Craig Sargent's case.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/content/ ... ture.shtml
The programme says conviction was overturned on the basis of the fact that another expert vet said there was no evidence that the bull in question was suffering as a result of the overgrown hooves. That said, there's video evidence of the bull's hooves and they do appear to be in right state.
Other farmers seem to be able to get hooves trimmed without such a fuss (see below), so even if it might not have legally been considered to be cruelty at the appeal, it does seem a bit negligent.
http://stonyfield.typepad.com/bovine/20 ... resah.html
Click on the link at the bottom of this page to view the documentary - the first 5 mins or so is about Craig Sargent's case.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/content/ ... ture.shtml
The programme says conviction was overturned on the basis of the fact that another expert vet said there was no evidence that the bull in question was suffering as a result of the overgrown hooves. That said, there's video evidence of the bull's hooves and they do appear to be in right state.
Other farmers seem to be able to get hooves trimmed without such a fuss (see below), so even if it might not have legally been considered to be cruelty at the appeal, it does seem a bit negligent.
http://stonyfield.typepad.com/bovine/20 ... resah.html